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Continuous live plankton feeding
I'm an uber noobie to all this, but I've been reading like a madman. I'm definitely hooked!
I'm in the process of setting up my first tank, and had a question. After reading this: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php I was wondering if anyone has set up a system to constantly add a mixture of different types of live plankton and phytoplankton to their tanks? The perfect system I'm thinking of would be something like this: A series of small chambers in (or next to) a refugium, comprised of a total food chain, from maybe a couple different types of phytoplankton/algae, to rotifers, to maybe artemia and/or copepods. It would be set up in such a way that more of the preceding "food" than needed is transferred to the next, so that eventually the display receives an amount (?) of all cultured organisms. I know a lot of people already culture their own phyto, and some culture a few more advanced species. I've been reading the "Plankton Culture Manual" by Hoff and Snell. It's all very fascinating to me (geek? ). There must be a way to do this... Some concerns I can think of ahead of time would be, in normal plankton culture, the culture is usually started and restarted fresh after a period of time. This would be kinda difficult if the system is built into the whole setup. Lighting and food for the plankton would have to be addressed. I don't think tank water would have all the nutrients required, but some kind of balance would have to be maintained if you're actually adding nutrients to your system! Some cultures are sensitive to contamination. Ideally, I would hope to use main system water, but I suppose RO/DI or make-up water would reduce contamination. Just trying to brainstorm... anyone have any links, or better yet experience? Thanks! |
#2
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In my opinion, a cheap and easy alternative would be a large refurgium. On my tank my mature refugium produces loads of little critters (phytoplankton) to feed my tank livestock. You could even plumb it above the main tank and have it drain into the main tank. In my tank I've been able to keep non-phoyosynthetic gorgonia and goniopora alive for years.
Jared |
#3
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This might be close to what you're looking for:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...nftt/index.php
__________________
SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
#4
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Of course now I remember reading that article! Pretty much just what I was looking for.
Anyone have experience using this kind of setup? |
#5
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Quote:
I will say that with this or any other feeding of live foods, you need be dedicated to the process. It can take a lot of time and energy. As you gain more experience you find ways to save time. You can check my gallery for pic of my tank when I was feeding live foods heavily. Side note - I've never used any type of CA additive other than live foods. fwiw
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SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
#6
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Like alot of things in this hobby, the more difficult, the more rewarding it can be.
What kind of problems do you run into? If you knew then what you know now, what would you do different? |
#7
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I never really had any issues. No wild algae outbreaks or tank crashes. I did need to clean the glass every other day, but this was just to remove a lite coating of algae. Again, nothing major.
Bristle worms and Limpets would spawn on regular basis and chitons were everywhere. This, IMO, just added to the natural food being added to the tank. The only "negative" during the whole time was an overabundance of aiptasia. But I don't blame this on the feeding. If I did it again, I don't know that I would do anything differently.
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SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
#8
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Hey Dwayne, nice avatar!
That was a great album, too!
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I like biscuits 'n mustard. Mmmhmmm. French fries taters too, I reckon. |
#9
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I never quite understood what the advantage was on having the Geosapper stacked like that. Wouldn't it be easier to have a tiered design that would offset the tanks a bit so that you could get to the middle one, say to clean it, without having to take apart the whole contraption?
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#10
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Oh, and while we're talking about it, wouldn't it be advantageous to add an overflow-type switch that could turn on a small light right above the siphon tube just as the siphon is about to start so that the rotifers (or whatever) can be concentrated right where you need them?
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#11
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Quote:
__________________
SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
#12
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Quote:
Not meaning to kill an idea, I do like the idea, just playing a little devil's advocate.
__________________
SPS - Reactor media waiting to happen. "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill |
#13
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Brilliant idea for the rotifer light. I plan on setting up something like you are talking about once I have more space. Try a nice bright LED, like a luxeon. No issues with heat, shock, or replacements.The only thing that worries me about the setup is phyto contamination. I think you would want to have it set up in such a way that if any section gets contaminated with something undesireable, you could seperate and restart it with minimum fuss. I do see this as being different from a refugium, where you have a nearly complete and rather random ecosystem. I'm thinking I just want phyto and mysis and/or copepods. What would you use as a fertilizer for the phyto? Would that cause a long term buildup of anything in the tank if it is on a constant drip?
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#14
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Quote:
Re: fertilizer build-up. I just don't know about long term effects. But I assume that any food I'm adding is adding phosphate to the tank. I run my tank water through a couple of macroalgae refugiums and then down to a phosban reactor and I hope it doesn't get back to the tank. At least with live food, most of the phosphate will be bound up in tiny bodies and unavailable to bad algae until a) they die and decompose or b) a fish poops them out.
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#15
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Unfortunetly I can not speak english.
Si alguien fuera tan amable de traducir mi post, le estaría muy agradecido. Alimento mi acuario de 500 ltrs con varias especies de fitoplancton liofilizado, concretamente, Nannochloropsis gaditana, Tetraselmis chuii, y Phaeodactylum tricornutum. Añado diariamente 100 mg. una mezcla de estas algas liofilizada previamente resuspendida en 1 L de agua del acuario. Esta concentración de alga corresponde a lo que encontraríamos en unos 1000 L de agua de mar natural procedente de una bahia muy rica en fitoplancton Asimismo mantengo regularmente una producción continuada de Brachionus plicatillis, con estos tipos de microalgas. Mi producción de rotíferos alcanza regularmente densidades de 700-800 individuos / ml., llegando a puntas de 900/ml. Alimento diariamente mi acuario con el concentrado de 1000 ml. de cultivo de rotífero, lo que significa un rango de alimentación cercano a 1,5 rotíferos/ml/dia promedio. Cada 5 dias elevo la cantidad de rotífero añadido al acuario a 6 rotíferos/ml./dia. También mantengo un cultivo de Artemia salina, la cual alimento unicamente con Tetraselmis chuii. El cultivo de esta artemia se mantiene estable gracias a la reproducción de los individuos maduros, con lo que siempre dispongo de artemia en todos sus estados de crecimiento y tamaño. El objetivo de este cultivo de artemia es provocar el estímulo de caza de mis corales no fotosintéticos (Tubastreas, Dendrofilias, Diodogorgias, etc). El grueso de la alimentación de los corales se basa en el rotífero vivo, mysis y artemia congelados, y mariscos frescos. Mis niveles normales de No3 (test Salifert) son 0, en algunas ocasiones llegan a 2,5 ppm y sólo en una ocasión llegaron a 20 ppm. Los fosfatos se mantienen en 0, habiendo llegado a un máximo de 0,015 (test D-Deltec/MERK). A grandes trazos, la adición de fitopáncton, tiene una acción favorecedora de cierto tipo de bacterias, y una acción inhibidora de otras (cianobacteria) . Algunos aminoacidos no esenciales como la Serina participa en la metabolización de los acidos grasos, otros como el Aspartico, favorece la capacidad de detoxificacion (amonio, nitritos, metales pesados) de los invertevrados. El silicato (insoluble en el acuario) de Phaeodactylum, remineraliza el esqueleto de los corales. Esta alga también estimula el sistema inmunitario de los invertebrados. Un saludo |
#16
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This is what I got from Babel Fish:
Quote:
Thanks! Andy
__________________
--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#17
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Gracias por tu traducción Andy.
Tengo automatizados los cultivos de rotifero y artemia. Todavia no he automatizado la adición de fitoplancton al acuario, pero es muy sencillo hacerlo con bombas perístalticas y un pequeño regrigerador. El cultivo de artemia es full life cycle. La artemia, al estar cultivada con fitoplancton, no necesita ser enriquecida con ningún otro compuesto tipo Selco o similares. Esta son algunas de las propiedades del alga que uso para el cultivo de artemia Tetraselmis chuii - Prasinoficea.. Es verde pero no es una cloroficea, como normalmente se la describe. -forma ovoide -tamaño 14 micras - Tiene movilidad, 4 flagelos. Por su composición y valor nutricional, es más adecuaduda que T,suecia o T. sp. Por otro lado crece mejor que la sueccica a temperaturas altas.. Alta digestibilidad, ideal para organismos con pocos enzymas digestivios. Pigmentos - Clorofila a y b: 12,5 µg(Chl a)/g de biomasa de microalga (peso seco) Perfil nutricional -Proteínas: 430 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco) -Carbohidratos: 185 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco) -Lípidos totales: 127 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco): *EPA (20:5 w3): 8,4 % -Vitamina C: 3,7 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco) -Vitamina B1, B2 y B12 concentraciones importantes (no tengo los datos) Aminoacidos no esenciales -Serina, involucrada en la metabolización de grasas y acidos grasos, va a ser determinante en la producción de huevos en el rotífero, y por tanto en la fecundidad del cultivo. -Aspártico, involucrado en los mecanismos de detoxificación, va a favorecer la capacidad de eliminar amonio, nitritos y metales pesados en los invertevrados, y especialmente en los moluscos. Tetraselmis es el alga que tiene mayores porcentajes de estos aminoacidos Utilización práctica Una de las mejores algas para el cultivo de artemia, alimentación directa de corales, y moluscos filtradores. Complementa muy bien a la Nannochoropsis en el cultivo de rotíferos, estimulando la tasa de reproducción. Combinada en proporción 1:1 con Nannochloropsis permite conseguir arrancadas espectaculares al inicio del cultivo de rotíferos. Yo no cultivo fitoplancton porque todas las algas que uso son liofilizadas. La liofilización respeta todas las caracteristicas nutricionales del alga viva. La disposición constante de fitoplancton de alto valor nutricional, es esencial para el exito en el cultivo de zooplancton. El valor nutricional y la densidad de alga en los cultivos que cuidan los aficionados, es muy dificil de lograr debido a que no se suele disponer de los abonos adecuados para realizarlos. Thanks |
#18
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And again from Babel Fish:
Quote:
Thank you for all the information. I had pretty much made up my mind to use Instant Algae myself. They make algae blends that combine several types of phytoplankton that I have no way to duplicate at home. Are you using a peristaltic pump to pump phytoplankton to different culturing containers? That's where I think I'm headed. Any photographs? Thanks again for the long posts with much information!
__________________
--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#19
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la traducción de liofilizada en inglés es:.. freeze-dried.
Yo compro esas algas en esta empresa http://www.easyalgae.com/ Este dosificador es el que uso para los cultivos. Está construido y diseñado por mi mismo Si deseas ver más detalles del dosificador, puedes verlo en este enlace http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=160887 Thanks |
#20
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Quote:
__________________
--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#21
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__________________
--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#22
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joanxavier--
That is a really cool setup you have. I'll give you another Did you make that (it wasn't quite clear to me from the translation)? From what I can tell, on the upstroke of the machine, the syringes fill themselves through vacuum. On the downstroke, the syringes empty to your culture. How long does it take for the machine to cycle? Do you use small check valves (one-way valves) on the tubing? Thanks! Sorry about the awkwardness of the translation.
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--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#23
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Sorry, yes I see the check valves now.
__________________
--Andy "And chase the frothy bubbles, / While the world is full of troubles. . . ." --W. B. Yeats |
#24
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Andy, I´ll try in english: I think i´m getting hard work for you.
Sorry for my horrible english. Yes, I did this doser myself, it´s really easy to do. The doser gives about 10 ml per minute, so it takes about 20 hours running. Ít´s very important feeding the culture slowly, this kind of feeding keeps the water quality and provides exact microalgae concentration in your culture. I know your instan algae, I d´ont like to much because the algae mixed with liquid needs antioxidation compounds and the algae loose some propierties. Also the rate price-concentration is not good. I pay 20 € for 15 grs (dry wheigth) but Instant algae cost is 40 USD per 9 grs (dry wheigth). But the really important in this mathers are the propierties of algae. Freeze-dried algae d´ont loose any propiertie compare whith alive algae. |
#25
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joanxavier,
If you think your English is "horrible", you have not experienced my Spanish! Please continue to contribute here - the submissions are very worthwhile and much apprecialted! Regards, Bob D. |
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