Continuous live plankton feeding

[BrainBandAid]

I'm an uber noobie to all this, but I've been reading like a madman. I'm definitely hooked!
I'm in the process of setting up my first tank, and had a question.
After reading this: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php
I was wondering if anyone has set up a system to constantly add a mixture of different types of live plankton and phytoplankton to their tanks?
The perfect system I'm thinking of would be something like this:
A series of small chambers in (or next to) a refugium, comprised of a total food chain, from maybe a couple different types of phytoplankton/algae, to rotifers, to maybe artemia and/or copepods. It would be set up in such a way that more of the preceding "food" than needed is transferred to the next, so that eventually the display receives an amount (?) of all cultured organisms.

I know a lot of people already culture their own phyto, and some culture a few more advanced species.

I've been reading the "Plankton Culture Manual" by Hoff and Snell. It's all very fascinating to me (geek? ). There must be a way to do this...
Some concerns I can think of ahead of time would be, in normal plankton culture, the culture is usually started and restarted fresh after a period of time. This would be kinda difficult if the system is built into the whole setup.
Lighting and food for the plankton would have to be addressed. I don't think tank water would have all the nutrients required, but some kind of balance would have to be maintained if you're actually adding nutrients to your system!
Some cultures are sensitive to contamination. Ideally, I would hope to use main system water, but I suppose RO/DI or make-up water would reduce contamination.

Just trying to brainstorm... anyone have any links, or better yet experience?
Thanks!

[Cougarman]

In my opinion, a cheap and easy alternative would be a large refurgium. On my tank my mature refugium produces loads of little critters (phytoplankton) to feed my tank livestock. You could even plumb it above the main tank and have it drain into the main tank. In my tank I've been able to keep non-phoyosynthetic gorgonia and goniopora alive for years.

Jared

[Dwayne]

This might be close to what you're looking for:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...nftt/index.php

[BrainBandAid]

Of course now I remember reading that article! Pretty much just what I was looking for.

Anyone have experience using this kind of setup?

[Dwayne]

Originally posted by BrainBandAid
Anyone have experience using this kind of setup?

hmm, Not sure if you mean anyone other than me?

I will say that with this or any other feeding of live foods, you need be dedicated to the process. It can take a lot of time and energy. As you gain more experience you find ways to save time.

You can check my gallery for pic of my tank when I was feeding live foods heavily. Side note - I've never used any type of CA additive other than live foods.

fwiw

[BrainBandAid]

Like alot of things in this hobby, the more difficult, the more rewarding it can be.

What kind of problems do you run into?

If you knew then what you know now, what would you do different?

[Dwayne]

I never really had any issues. No wild algae outbreaks or tank crashes. I did need to clean the glass every other day, but this was just to remove a lite coating of algae. Again, nothing major.

Bristle worms and Limpets would spawn on regular basis and chitons were everywhere. This, IMO, just added to the natural food being added to the tank.

The only "negative" during the whole time was an overabundance of aiptasia. But I don't blame this on the feeding.

If I did it again, I don't know that I would do anything differently.

[PrivateJoker64]

Hey Dwayne, nice avatar!
That was a great album, too!

["Umm, fish?"]

I never quite understood what the advantage was on having the Geosapper stacked like that. Wouldn't it be easier to have a tiered design that would offset the tanks a bit so that you could get to the middle one, say to clean it, without having to take apart the whole contraption?

["Umm, fish?"]

Oh, and while we're talking about it, wouldn't it be advantageous to add an overflow-type switch that could turn on a small light right above the siphon tube just as the siphon is about to start so that the rotifers (or whatever) can be concentrated right where you need them?

[Dwayne]

Originally posted by "Umm, fish?"
I never quite understood what the advantage was on having the Geosapper stacked like that. Wouldn't it be easier to have a tiered design that would offset the tanks a bit so that you could get to the middle one, say to clean it, without having to take apart the whole contraption?

Yes, you could and some have done other variations of the design. The design is not set in stone nor was it meant to be. The larger purpose of the article was to transfer an idea to the greater community for advancement and to get folks thinking of ways to feed live foods on a continuous basis.

[Dwayne]

Originally posted by "Umm, fish?"
Oh, and while we're talking about it, wouldn't it be advantageous to add an overflow-type switch that could turn on a small light right above the siphon tube just as the siphon is about to start so that the rotifers (or whatever) can be concentrated right where you need them?

Yes, this could and probably would work. "Advantageous" is relative. It may cause more rotifers (as in your example) to concentrate at the surge tube. The downside is now you have an element (the light bulb) that increases the maintenance of the unit and introduces a potential for electrical shock if not done correctly.

Not meaning to kill an idea, I do like the idea, just playing a little devil's advocate.

[Steel_Phoenix]

Brilliant idea for the rotifer light. I plan on setting up something like you are talking about once I have more space. Try a nice bright LED, like a luxeon. No issues with heat, shock, or replacements.The only thing that worries me about the setup is phyto contamination. I think you would want to have it set up in such a way that if any section gets contaminated with something undesireable, you could seperate and restart it with minimum fuss. I do see this as being different from a refugium, where you have a nearly complete and rather random ecosystem. I'm thinking I just want phyto and mysis and/or copepods. What would you use as a fertilizer for the phyto? Would that cause a long term buildup of anything in the tank if it is on a constant drip?

["Umm, fish?"]

The downside is now you have an element (the light bulb) that increases the maintenance of the unit and introduces a potential for electrical shock if not done correctly.

Yes, but isn't this true any time we set up a tank. Heck, the cheapo way to do this is to go down to (name of your nearest fish store here) and buy a little 1 gal. starter tank. They're cheap plastic, but they're drillable. Drill through the center of the bottom for the siphon tube, set up the float switch, and plug the tank light to the float switch. Cover the rest of the tank in black paper so you don't get a contaminated culture as fast and voila! you're done. Now you just need a drip tube from a phyto source.

Re: fertilizer build-up. I just don't know about long term effects. But I assume that any food I'm adding is adding phosphate to the tank. I run my tank water through a couple of macroalgae refugiums and then down to a phosban reactor and I hope it doesn't get back to the tank. At least with live food, most of the phosphate will be bound up in tiny bodies and unavailable to bad algae until a) they die and decompose or b) a fish poops them out.

[joanxavier]

Unfortunetly I can not speak english.
Si alguien fuera tan amable de traducir mi post, le estaría muy agradecido.
Alimento mi acuario de 500 ltrs con varias especies de fitoplancton liofilizado, concretamente, Nannochloropsis gaditana, Tetraselmis chuii, y Phaeodactylum tricornutum. Añado diariamente 100 mg. una mezcla de estas algas liofilizada previamente resuspendida en 1 L de agua del acuario. Esta concentración de alga corresponde a lo que encontraríamos en
unos 1000 L de agua de mar natural procedente de una bahia muy rica en fitoplancton
Asimismo mantengo regularmente una producción continuada de Brachionus plicatillis, con estos tipos de microalgas.
Mi producción de rotíferos alcanza regularmente densidades de 700-800 individuos / ml., llegando a puntas de 900/ml.
Alimento diariamente mi acuario con el concentrado de 1000 ml. de cultivo de rotífero, lo que significa un rango de alimentación cercano a 1,5 rotíferos/ml/dia promedio. Cada 5 dias elevo la cantidad de rotífero añadido al acuario a 6 rotíferos/ml./dia.
También mantengo un cultivo de Artemia salina, la cual alimento unicamente con Tetraselmis chuii. El cultivo de esta artemia se mantiene estable gracias a la reproducción de los individuos maduros, con lo que siempre dispongo de artemia en todos sus estados de crecimiento y tamaño.
El objetivo de este cultivo de artemia es provocar el estímulo de caza de mis corales no fotosintéticos (Tubastreas, Dendrofilias, Diodogorgias, etc). El grueso de la alimentación de los corales se basa en el rotífero vivo, mysis y artemia congelados, y mariscos frescos.
Mis niveles normales de No3 (test Salifert) son 0, en algunas ocasiones llegan a 2,5 ppm y sólo en una ocasión llegaron a 20 ppm.
Los fosfatos se mantienen en 0, habiendo llegado a un máximo de 0,015 (test D-Deltec/MERK).
A grandes trazos, la adición de fitopáncton, tiene una acción favorecedora de cierto tipo de bacterias, y una acción inhibidora de otras (cianobacteria) .
Algunos aminoacidos no esenciales como la Serina participa en la metabolización de los acidos grasos, otros como el Aspartico, favorece la capacidad de detoxificacion (amonio, nitritos, metales pesados) de los invertevrados.
El silicato (insoluble en el acuario) de Phaeodactylum, remineraliza el esqueleto de los corales. Esta alga también estimula el sistema inmunitario de los invertebrados.
Un saludo

["Umm, fish?"]

This is what I got from Babel Fish:

If somebody outside so amiable one to translate my post, very would be thanked for him. Food my aquarium of 500 ltrs with several species of liofilizado phytoplankton, concretely, gaditana Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis chuii, and Phaeodactylum tricornutum. I daily add to 100 mg. a mixture of these seaweed liofilizada previously resuspendida in 1 water L of the aquarium. This concentration of alga corresponds to which we would find in about 1000 water Ls of very rich natural sea coming from one bahia in phytoplankton Also I maintain regularly a production continued of Brachionus plicatillis, with these types of seaweed. My production of rotifers reaches densities of 700-800 individuals/mililiter, arriving at ends regularly from 900/ml. Food daily my aquarium with the concentrated one of 1000 mililiter of rotifer culture, which means a rank of feeding near 1.5 rotíferos/ml/dia average. Every 5 days I elevate the amount of rotifer added to the aquarium to 6 rotíferos/ml./dia. Also I maintain a culture of saline Artemia, which food only with Tetraselmis chuii. The culture of this artemia stays thanks to the reproduction of the mature individuals stable, with which always I have artemia in all its states of growth and size. The objective of this culture of artemia is to cause the stimulus of hunting of my nonphotosynthetic chorales (Tubastreas, Dendrofilias, Diodogorgias, etc). The thickness of the feeding of the chorales is based on the alive rotifer, congealed mysis and artemia, and fresh seafood. My normal levels of No3 (Salifert test) are 0, in some 2.5 occasions they arrive at ppm and only in a 20 occasion they arrived at ppm. The phosphates stay in 0, having reached a maximum of 0.015 (D-Deltec/MERK test). To great outlines, the addition of fitopáncton, has a favorecedora action of certain type of bacteria, and an inhibiting action of others (cianobacteria). Some nonessential aminoacidos as the Serina participates in the metabolization of the greasy acidos ones, others like the Aspartico, favor the capacity of detoxificacion (heavy ammonium, nitritos, metals) of the invertevrados ones. The silicate (insoluble in the aquarium) of Phaeodactylum, remineraliza the skeleton of the chorales. This alga also stimulates the immune system of the invertebrates. A greeting

It's a bad translation, but mostly readable. joanxavier, how are you keeping your cultures going? And, are you automating them in any way? I'm impressed that you are getting a full life cycle from your artemia. How do you enrich before feeding your tank, and do you automate that?

Thanks!

Andy

[joanxavier]

Gracias por tu traducción Andy.
Tengo automatizados los cultivos de rotifero y artemia.
Todavia no he automatizado la adición de fitoplancton al acuario, pero es muy sencillo hacerlo con bombas perístalticas y un pequeño regrigerador.
El cultivo de artemia es full life cycle.
La artemia, al estar cultivada con fitoplancton, no necesita ser enriquecida con ningún otro compuesto tipo Selco o similares.
Esta son algunas de las propiedades del alga que uso para el cultivo de artemia

Tetraselmis chuii
- Prasinoficea.. Es verde pero no es una cloroficea, como normalmente se la describe.
-forma ovoide
-tamaño 14 micras
- Tiene movilidad, 4 flagelos.
Por su composición y valor nutricional, es más adecuaduda que T,suecia o T. sp. Por otro lado crece mejor que la sueccica a temperaturas altas..
Alta digestibilidad, ideal para organismos con pocos enzymas digestivios.

Pigmentos
- Clorofila a y b: 12,5 µg(Chl a)/g de biomasa de microalga (peso seco)

Perfil nutricional

-Proteínas: 430 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco)
-Carbohidratos: 185 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco)
-Lípidos totales: 127 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco):
*EPA (20:5 w3): 8,4 %
-Vitamina C: 3,7 µg/mg de biomasa de microalga (peso seco)
-Vitamina B1, B2 y B12 concentraciones importantes (no tengo los datos)
Aminoacidos no esenciales
-Serina, involucrada en la metabolización de grasas y acidos grasos, va a ser determinante en la producción de huevos en el rotífero, y por tanto en la fecundidad del cultivo.
-Aspártico, involucrado en los mecanismos de detoxificación, va a favorecer la capacidad de eliminar amonio, nitritos y metales pesados en los invertevrados, y especialmente en los moluscos.
Tetraselmis es el alga que tiene mayores porcentajes de estos aminoacidos

Utilización práctica
Una de las mejores algas para el cultivo de artemia, alimentación directa de corales, y moluscos filtradores.
Complementa muy bien a la Nannochoropsis en el cultivo de rotíferos, estimulando la tasa de reproducción. Combinada en proporción 1:1 con Nannochloropsis permite conseguir arrancadas espectaculares al inicio del cultivo de rotíferos.

Yo no cultivo fitoplancton porque todas las algas que uso son liofilizadas. La liofilización respeta todas las caracteristicas nutricionales del alga viva.
La disposición constante de fitoplancton de alto valor nutricional, es esencial para el exito en el cultivo de zooplancton.
El valor nutricional y la densidad de alga en los cultivos que cuidan los aficionados, es muy dificil de lograr debido a que no se suele disponer de los abonos adecuados para realizarlos.
Thanks

["Umm, fish?"]

And again from Babel Fish:

Thanks for your Andy translation. I have automated the cultures of rotifero and artemia. Todavia I have not automated the addition of phytoplankton to the aquarium, but he is very simple to make it with perístalticas pumps and a small regrigerador. The culture of artemia is full life cycle. Artemia, when cultivated being with phytoplankton, does not need to be enriched with any other compound Selco type or similars. This is some of the properties of the alga that use for the culture of artemia Tetraselmis chuii - Prasinoficea.. He is green but it is not a cloroficea, as normally is described it - it forms ovoid - so large 14 microns - mobility, 4 flagella Has. By his composition and nutricional value, she is adecuaduda than T, Sweden or T. sp. On the other hand it grows better than the sueccica to high temperatures. High digestibilidad, ideal for organisms with few enzymas digestivios. Pigments - Chlorophyll to and b: 12,5 µg(Chl a)/g of biomass of seaweed (dry weight) Nutricional profile - Proteins: 430 µg/mg of biomass of seaweed (dry weight) - Carbohydrates: 185 µg/mg of biomass of seaweed (dry weight) - total Lipids: 127 µg/mg of biomass of seaweed (dry weight): * EPA (20:5 W3): 8,4 % - Vitamin C: 3,7 µg/mg of biomass of seaweed (dry weight) - Vitamin B1, B2 and B12 important concentrations (I do not have the data) Aminoacidos nonessential - Serina, involved in the metabolization of greasy fats and acidos, is going to be determining in the egg production in the rotifer, and therefore in the fecundity of the culture. - Aspártico, involved in the detoxificación mechanisms, is going to favor the capacity to eliminate heavy ammonium, nitritos and metals in the invertevrados ones, and specially in the moluscos. Tetraselmis is the alga that has greater percentage of these aminoacidos Practical use One of the best seaweed for the culture of artemia, direct feeding of chorales, and moluscos filters. It complements to the Nannochoropsis in the culture of rotifers, stimulating the rate of reproduction very well. Combined in proportion 1:1 with Nannochloropsis it allows to obtain started spectacular to the beginning of the culture of rotifers. I do not cultivate phytoplankton because all the seaweed that use is liofilizadas. The liofilización respects all the nutricionales characteristics of the alive alga. The constant disposition of phytoplankton of high nutricional value, is essential for the exito in the culture of zooplancton. The nutricional value and the density of alga in the cultures that the fans take care of, are very dificil to obtain because usually it is not had the suitable installments to make them. Thanks

Again, I'm sorry that it's not the best translation. I don't know enough Spanish to do the translation myself, so I'm relying on Babel Fish.

Thank you for all the information. I had pretty much made up my mind to use Instant Algae myself. They make algae blends that combine several types of phytoplankton that I have no way to duplicate at home.

Are you using a peristaltic pump to pump phytoplankton to different culturing containers? That's where I think I'm headed. Any photographs?

Thanks again for the long posts with much information!

[joanxavier]

la traducción de liofilizada en inglés es:.. freeze-dried.
Yo compro esas algas en esta empresa http://www.easyalgae.com/
Este dosificador es el que uso para los cultivos. Está construido y diseñado por mi mismo

Si deseas ver más detalles del dosificador, puedes verlo en este enlace http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=160887
Thanks

["Umm, fish?"]

The traslation of liofilizada in english is:.. freeze-dried.
I buy these seaweeds from this company http://www.easyalgae.com/
This dispenser is the one that used for the cultures. It is constructed and it is designed by my same one

If you wish to see more details of the dispenser, you can see it in this connection:

http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=160887

["Umm, fish?"]

I'm getting Instant Algae here:

http://www.reed-mariculture.com/

["Umm, fish?"]

joanxavier--

That is a really cool setup you have. I'll give you another

Did you make that (it wasn't quite clear to me from the translation)? From what I can tell, on the upstroke of the machine, the syringes fill themselves through vacuum. On the downstroke, the syringes empty to your culture. How long does it take for the machine to cycle?

Do you use small check valves (one-way valves) on the tubing?

Thanks! Sorry about the awkwardness of the translation.

["Umm, fish?"]

Sorry, yes I see the check valves now.

[joanxavier]

Andy, I´ll try in english: I think i´m getting hard work for you.
Sorry for my horrible english.
Yes, I did this doser myself, it´s really easy to do.
The doser gives about 10 ml per minute, so it takes about 20 hours running.
Ít´s very important feeding the culture slowly, this kind of feeding keeps the water quality and provides exact microalgae concentration in your culture.
I know your instan algae, I d´ont like to much because the algae mixed with liquid needs antioxidation compounds and the algae loose some propierties.
Also the rate price-concentration is not good.
I pay 20 € for 15 grs (dry wheigth) but Instant algae cost is 40 USD per 9 grs (dry wheigth). But the really important in this mathers are the propierties of algae. Freeze-dried algae d´ont loose any propiertie compare whith alive algae.

[radiata]

joanxavier,

If you think your English is "horrible", you have not experienced my Spanish!

Please continue to contribute here - the submissions are very worthwhile and much apprecialted!

Regards,
Bob D.