Mandrin Fish Myths ?

[Draxx]

I don't know if its the proper place for this forum. I can't search the forums to find out if its been talked about before but I figured if its taken me 5 years to wonder about this then probably not alot of people have thought about it.

I'm starting to think its a myth that Mandrin Fishes need pods to survive. After having a Green Mandrin for over 5 years it dawned on me that I have NEVER seen him catch a pod ... or a mysis shrimp ... both are available to him.

However, on a daily basis I have seen him catch and eat worms! He plucks them right out of the sand like a lizard and he expells the fine sand particles through his gills. Now I know its worms he is eating ... mostly medusa worms ... or those things IPSF sells that they call "mama mia worms" because I can see the tenticles of the worms spread out over the sand before he eats them.

So I am wondering where did the notion that pods were the requirement for mandrins come from? Are we sure its pods and not worms? Has the hobby been telling NOOB's to go pod crazy for mandrins when they should really be going worm crazy?

Is the 6 month rule to "establish a pod population" really also establishing worm populations?

I want to make the bold claim ... but without knowing the source of the origional "Mandrins need pods" conclusion it makes it difficult. Anyone know this orgin?

The only other thing besides worms I have witnessed him eating is live brine shrimp when I have added them. If I bury frozen brine in the sand and allow it to appear as though its something alive lingering there he will eat that..... but I say again I have never actually seen him catch a pod or a mysis shrimp.

Additionally as I notice both pods and mysis shrimp tend to hide in while lights are on ... and the mandrin sleeps when lights are off ... I'm not sure when he has time to "pod hunt" except for the early morning and dusk hour.

So this is my observation and question about these fish. Anyone?

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Draxx
I don't know if its the proper place for this forum. I can't search the forums to find out if its been talked about before but I figured if its taken me 5 years to wonder about this then probably not alot of people have thought about it.

You might be right. There are still a lot of myths surrounding a lot of the hobby

I'm starting to think its a myth that Mandrin Fishes need pods to survive. After having a Green Mandrin for over 5 years it dawned on me that I have NEVER seen him catch a pod ... or a mysis shrimp ... both are available to him.

Your mandarin is a bit of the exception. Not all of them will even take worms. Most do eat various pods. And a lot of their hunting is also done in the dark nooks and crannies that we can't really look into. This is where most "pods" hang out. They are also out the most at dusk and dawn for pod hunting.

However, on a daily basis I have seen him catch and eat worms! He plucks them right out of the sand like a lizard and he expells the fine sand particles through his gills. Now I know its worms he is eating ... mostly medusa worms ... or those things IPSF sells that they call "mama mia worms" because I can see the tenticles of the worms spread out over the sand before he eats them.

See above comment

So I am wondering where did the notion that pods were the requirement for mandrins come from? Are we sure its pods and not worms? Has the hobby been telling NOOB's to go pod crazy for mandrins when they should really be going worm crazy?

The "requirement" came from the fact that the bulk of mandarins will only go after this. Over time in captivity they will tend to eat other things and even take prepared foods.

Is the 6 month rule to "establish a pod population" really also establishing worm populations?

If you think about it, it's one and the same no matter what your new mandarin decides it likes to eat. If it likes worms, then you have a healthy "pod" population. If it likes pods, then you have a healthy worm population

I want to make the bold claim ... but without knowing the source of the origional "Mandrins need pods" conclusion it makes it difficult. Anyone know this orgin?

As far as I know, there really isn't a slab of stone some where that has engravings on it that says that "Mandarins need pods" I think this has just evolved as a general consensus. But I can tell you this, they don't all eat just worms. If anything, they will need at least a mixture. Heck, it's hit and miss with them eating flat worms and it's even been reported that they have been seen picking on red bugs

The only other thing besides worms I have witnessed him eating is live brine shrimp when I have added them. If I bury frozen brine in the sand and allow it to appear as though its something alive lingering there he will eat that..... but I say again I have never actually seen him catch a pod or a mysis shrimp.

.... but I say again, you have a unique mandarin (yes, I'm mocking you, but in a polite, humorous way not intended to be offensive but to put a smile on your face. It's the Lounge side of me poking out )

Additionally as I notice both pods and mysis shrimp tend to hide in while lights are on ... and the mandrin sleeps when lights are off ... I'm not sure when he has time to "pod hunt" except for the early morning and dusk hour.

Exactly. Regardless of a mandarins food choice, it has to hunt and eat constantly during it's waking hours

So this is my observation and question about these fish. Anyone?

Great observation. Can I count as "Anyone?"?

[s dubay]

My Mandarin eats all PODS all day long,I watch him eating pods everyday

[Pat_13]

There are no or few worms in my CC bed. Mine eats pods all day, I can see him eat them on the glass & rocks. I have also hand feed mysis & brine shrimp and black worms. It all depends on your individual.

[Dwayne]

Awhile back (maybe even quite awhile back) there was a study done on Mandarin stomach contents. I don't remember all the details, but the contents were quite varied and the fish ate a 'considerable' amount per day. (Considerable for their size).

A search might pull it up, I'm thinking it was at least a year ago maybe two.

[Medaka]

Most pods you can't even see as well (ie copepods etc)

[Gary Majchrzak]

Just because you don't see a fish eat something doesn't mean it doesn't eat it.
For example: ever see a baby Clownfish eat a rotifer?
Probably not, since rotifers aren't visible to the unaided (human) eye.
There was a large online poll conducted on Mandarinfish a few years back. The conclusion drawn from it's results were that these fishes fail to thrive in aquaria containing a sterile environment- little to no liverock and no microfauna. (Small worms count as microfauna.)
Now get your Mandarin a mate and feed them well. Chances are very good that they'll spawn for you.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak

Now get your Mandarin a mate and feed them well. Chances are very good that they'll spawn for you.

I second that

[Flatlander]

I,m in agreement with Gary on this. My green mandarin is over 4yrs. old. Has always ate frozen mysis & bloodworms, {his favorite}. Has always been very fat & healthy, and commented on as such in posted pictures of him.

However, he has always resided in larger aquariums full of natural food. For the last several months we have been moving to a new place, so my limited remaining stock has been in large rubbermaids and now their new aquarium.

He has been loosing weight steady, despite my feedings. I do see him gobble up frozen. Unless he has an intestional parasite disease, common with them, he is not getting enough natural food to sustain him.

They do have bad eyesight, IMO. Cant catch food in the water like other fish. It was fine with a large tank and lots of food but now I need to shut down the pumps, so the food settles on the bottom. {and the copperband does not eat it all}.

[Sk8r]

Flatlander, get some pods off internet. He may not be getting enough nutrition. If you put a small rockpile in your arrangement you can keep him from getting all of them at once.

Draxx, my own eats pods but has begun to experiment with the occasional cyclopeeze after about 2 months and a burgeoning appetite...one thing experience has proven is that they will change their diet, which some fish cannot, but they are inclined to eat what they eat with fair stubbornness...and, imho, a healthy fish getting greedy is more likely to eat frozen than a really hungry and desperate one.

[Flatlander]

Originally posted by Sk8r
Flatlander, get some pods off internet. He may not be getting enough nutrition. If you put a small rockpile in your arrangement you can keep him from getting all of them at once.

I just finished putting most of my rubble back along the front of the bottom.

[dvarner32]

I work at an aquarium store with 2 saltwater systems. One is an invert system that contains live sand, live rock and refugiums. The other is a fish only system with a large bio filter and aquarium gravel. Both systems are fed black worms, cyclopeeze, mysis shrimp, brine, and spectrum every day. When we get a big shipment of mandarins in we sometimes run out of room in the invert system so the leftovers are put in the FO system. Rarely, some Mandarins will survive off of black worms, but for the most part the FO system mandarins eventually die. For that reason I try (unless the customer insists on an invert one simply because the invert lighting makes it look better.) to sell off the FO mandarins first, then the inverts. I subscribe to the 6 month rule, 1 to 1-1/2 lbs of live rock per gallon and/or refugiums for copepod supplementation.

[Angel*Fish]

He has been loosing weight steady, despite my feedings. I do see him gobble up frozen. Unless he has an intestional parasite disease, common with them, he is not getting enough natural food to sustain him.

Flatlander, if you're really really sure your fish is getting lots of food, he could have intestinal flagellates which are easy to treat as long as you can get the medicine down your fish... try hatching some artemia eggs, then about 2 days after they've hatched, load them with Prazipro for 2 hours, then feed them to your mandarin. I think is is common for spotted mandarin to eat the nauplii vigorously, vigorously for a mandarin, anyway

Draxx - I'm sorry to not take your word that the mandarin is eating the worms -- but are you actally seeing the worms sucked into your fish's mouth? This should look like sucking up spaghetti. I'm not saying he never eats a worm or two, but couldn't he be eating a pod sitting next to the worm? Just asking..

[louist]

My mandarin definitely eats copepods, amphipods and frozen mysis. She isn't so interested with brine, either it be live or frozen, gut-loaded or not.

I see her pick copepods off the glass one by one as she swims pass. I have also seen her ate a huge amphid that took a good 20 seconds to chew. She has gone after a speghatti worm once, but was not impressed with the sticky tentacles.

If you are feeding your mandarin frozen mysis, pick the smaller pieces, they take those much more readily. Keep feeding until they continuously spit it out after taking it. IMHO, they are habitual hunters that never stop, so they also keep taking frozen until it doesn't fit in their stomach.

In conclusion, every specimen differ, however we do know that all mandarin consume small inverterbrates. Some will take pellet food, some will take frozen. Just like some cats will eat canteloup.

[jimbo045]

I think the greem spotted one is Way hardier than the striped one. JD

[Jeanniee]

My Mandarin came from Pacific East Aquaculture and was tank raised, she eats all types of frozen food and is fat and healthy. Tank raised seems to be the way to go with these fish.

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by Jeanniee
My Mandarin came from Pacific East Aquaculture and was tank raised, she eats all types of frozen food and is fat and healthy. Tank raised seems to be the way to go with these fish.

Tank raised, meaning he's kept them in a tank for a while, not bred in captivity?

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
Just because you don't see a fish eat something doesn't mean it doesn't eat it.
For example: ever see a baby Clownfish eat a rotifer?
Probably not, since rotifers aren't visible to the unaided (human) eye.

That's odd, I raise and sell billions of rotifers, and I can see them Detail, no, but I can see them. Sub adults, kinda, but definitly adults.

[dhnguyen]

Originally posted by GreshamH
Tank raised, meaning he's kept them in a tank for a while, not bred in captivity?

I was gonna say the same thing. Never heard of anyone yet successfully bred mandarins to adulthood.


D.

[rpisces]

Yes, rotifers can be seen with the naked eyes. They are almost transparent unlike the brine shrimps which are bigger and brown in colour.

My friend used to catch them in the tidal zone and its colour is almost like the sea water but it can definately be seen.

From what I experienced, my mandarins only take natural foods. They never take any dead or processed foods I put in. But, I never put in live brine shrimps. My main tank doesnt has any visible pods although my refugium has and I only see my mandarin going all over the places pecking the rocks. So, I am also wondering what are they eating? Is it microfauna or floral?

I have this last medium sized mandarin for 2 years already. I thought it is a female because its antenna is very short but then lately its antenna starts to grow and is now long like the male specimen! Could it be that it has changed sex or just a regrowth of a broken antenna?

Regards
khoo

[Angel*Fish]

Deep on a hidden algae laden reef bommie there once lived a beautiful mandarin fish called Princess Lollicup. Princess Lolli was the most beautiful fish which had ever been born & all the fish on the reef would dip their heads if they were lucky enough come across her during their foraging. That summer, as usual, she spent her days gracefully flitting from rock to rock pecking off a delicate tidbit here & there...but she felt something different in the water . Everyone on the reef in fact, noticed the strange new scent on the tide...

[Dwayne]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
I was gonna say the same thing. Never heard of anyone yet successfully bred mandarins to adulthood.


D.

There are a couple of people that have successfully raised Mandarins. You should be able to find the related threads with a search in the Fish Breeding forum.