potassium

Bebo77 · #1 10/24/2006, 03:23 PM

I run Zeo and i add potassium to my tank daily... i was wondering if i could save money by using a prOduct like this http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=EV2161 or if someone could point me in the right direction...

thank you

Randy Holmes-Farley · #2 10/24/2006, 03:33 PM

No, you cannot use that to replace potassium. It would boost iodine way too high, and wouldn't be inexpensive to boost potassium that way.

FWIW, I 'm not convinced that anyone needs to supplement potassium, but for those who do, you might be able to get potassium chloride tablets from a pharmacist.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...72#post8386972

Fishbulb2 · #3 10/24/2006, 05:15 PM

if your tank can support it you could even use KNO3. People use it a lot in planted tanks because the plants will use both potassium and nitrates. In a reef tank you might need a refugium to handle the excess nitrate but if you need a little potassium boost and have plenty of denitrification going on anyways, KNO3 is very cheap and easy to come by. Look for Grants Stump remover at Home Depot.
FB

Randy Holmes-Farley · #4 10/24/2006, 05:55 PM

FWIW, using KNO3 to boost potassium by a fairly small percentage, 20 ppm = 5%, will add 32 ppm nitrate.

Fishbulb2 · #5 10/24/2006, 06:15 PM

Point well taken! I really should have used a calculator on that one.

FB

RichardS · #6 10/26/2006, 07:47 PM

Why can't he just use the potassium chloride pellets sold for water softeners? I just walked next door to the grocery store and checked the price $6.84 for a 40lb bag.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #7 10/27/2006, 05:57 AM

I do not know if they are adequately pure, but they may be.

Richard Walston · #8 10/27/2006, 08:44 PM

Randy

I just posted this in another forum then I came across this thread any comments to what I have asked.

Thank you

Rich

Mr. ?

I see a lot of products that contain some form of potassium (Potassium Sulfate, Potassium Iodide) in them (Marc Weiss Coral Vital, Marc Weiss Immuno Vital, Marc Weiss Reef Vital DNA, Seachem Flourish Potassium, ESV Potassium Iodide Solution,) for use in reef tanks. What does potassium do as far as a trace element and water quality. Also is there an effective way to test for potassium(K). I know that some people use KMnO4 as an oxidizer in fresh water tanks. Any insight will help. The reason I asked this question is that a friend of mine put some Seahem Flourish Potassium in his reef and noticed the water became clearer and believed he had better light penetration. The Reef Vital DNA claims to be a water conditioning product that when applied allows the dipole water molecules of the aquarium to realign, promoting greater light penetration throughout the aquarium water. Deeper light penetration promotes the growth of beneficial coralline algae and significantly enhances colors. I just want to know how much truth is there in this statement and is potassium something to start thinking about for the future.

Rich

Randy Holmes-Farley · #9 10/28/2006, 08:57 AM

Potassium may or may not be an important thing to think about. There has been a rash of interest based on zeovit coming out with a kit and a supplement. But IMO the need and benefit is not yet well established.

The nonsense about realigning dipoles in the above discussion is utterly ridiculous. The penetration of visible light through a potassium-containing water solution is no different than one that does not contain any potassium ions.

The amount of potassium in any potassium permanganate or iodide supplement it trivially small.

For example:
Raising iodine from none to NSW levels (0.07 ppm) using potassium iodide raises potassium by 0.02 ppm, or 0.005% of the normal potassium level of about 400 ppm. So the amount added is just not important in any possible context. The water clarity effects from potassium permanganate come from the permanganate, not the potassium. It has an effect similar to ozone.

The Seachem Flourish Potassium is a fine way to add potassium if you choose to add it. But I've never heard even from the folks that are dosing potassium that it has impacted water clarity, and I can't really think why it would.

Richard Walston · #10 10/28/2006, 06:09 PM

Randy

Potassium is consumed by both plants and coral. Is this correct?
If you are running a large fuge would the potassium be consumed very rapid? And if potassium is used as a building block for coral and has the same levels as CA would it not be wise to test for it and dose to keep levels maintained at 400 ppm

Randy Holmes-Farley · #11 10/29/2006, 07:33 AM

Yes, organisms may concentrate potassium to some extent , but they do not deposit it like calcium, magnesium,or carbonate. Nor do they make organic materials out of it, like nitrogen and phosphorus. It is just incorporated as part of the salts that exist inside of cells.

The thing that bothers me about the whole idea of depletion is that feeding foods that are made from plants and animals ought to add back potassium in similar ratios to that which is consumed. The nutrients (phosphorus and nitrogen) that fuel algae growth ought to be coming in in ratios to potassium that are roughly similar to what is used up in growing new algae. So perhaps the balance is imperfect for some reason, but it is far from as simple as saying that organisms take up potassium so it should get depleted.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #12 10/29/2006, 07:49 AM

Unfortunately, I don't have time today, but if someone really wants to dig into this idea, we have some data.

Ron shows the relative amount of potassium and other chemicals in both foods and algae (and soft corals) in these articles:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

http://web.archive.org/web/200107200...data/foods.asp

So if we look carefully at the relative amount of potassium in these samples, relative to nitrogen, phosphorus, sodium, etc, we can get a handle on whether foods have relatively more or less potassium than do corals and algae.

RichardS · #13 10/29/2006, 02:36 PM

On the water softener K...I checked the bag more closely it did not list anything in regards to purity and did say "now with cleaning agents" so at least that brand (Nature's Own) would be out.

Are the people dosing K actually testing levels? I see hach makes a K test kit, do you know if it is accurate or if it tests up to NSW levels of K?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #14 10/29/2006, 03:20 PM

Many folks seem to be using a zeovit kit, but I do not know much about its accuracy.

I'd assume the Hach is a decent kit, but they look like they all use spectrophotometers, and only read up to 7 ppm (NSW = 400 ppm).

http://www.hach.com/hc/browse.parame...BPT1CRmt4TQ==|

tonyscoots84 · #15 10/30/2006, 01:29 AM

i started dosing potassium about a week ago ill keep everyone informed on the results..

Randy Holmes-Farley · #16 10/30/2006, 08:47 AM

Sounds good.

Good luck.

Greg Hiller · #17 10/30/2006, 01:00 PM

You can also purchase nearly pure potassium chloride as a table salt substitute. There might be something else in it though...maybe a bit of sodium silicate to prevent caking?

Richard Walston · #18 10/30/2006, 01:19 PM

Tony how are you measuing the levels of K in your tank? Or are you just dosing a recomended amount for your tank volume.

Bebo77 · #19 10/30/2006, 01:37 PM

zeovit has a potassium test kit...

Boomer · #20 10/31/2006, 01:24 PM

Randy

It just it me

Why not just use some buffer for K+ additions like potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate, if one feels a need to add K+ ? These were never brought up IIRC. SeaChem Labs "Marine Buffer" has such, not that one should use this.

reefreef · #21 11/08/2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

zeovit has a potassium test kit

You can get a pottasium test kit made by aqualight, it is the same test kit made as zeovit, however the aqualight is cheaper.

pottasium test kit

Randy Holmes-Farley · #22 11/08/2006, 08:40 AM

Why not just use some buffer for K+ additions like potassium bicarbonate or potassium carbonate, if one feels a need to add K+ ?

Where would folks obtain that cheaply?

If you need a big boost in K+, that would boost alkalinity quite a bit.

Lobster · #23 11/10/2006, 01:37 PM

Two questions...

The Seachem Flourish Potassium product is potassium sulfate, right? Could anyone explain what happens to the sulfate part of the equation when dosing this? Any way to calculate the products effect on potassium so we could estimate dosage?

What provides the potassium in saltmixes? Wouldnt that same chemical be a safe way to raise K+?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #24 11/10/2006, 05:19 PM

Sulfate is the third most abundant ion in seawater by weight, at 2710 ppm, so small boosts to it are likely to go unnoticed. I discuss it here with respect to magnesium sulfate dosing:

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

specifically here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php#14

What provides the potassium in saltmixes? Wouldnt that same chemical be a safe way to raise K+?

Yes. My DIY salt mix uses potassium bromide and potassium chloride:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php#21

An Artificial Seawater Recipe

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For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

Sk8r · #25 11/10/2006, 06:17 PM

You can also get potassium pills designed for people: depends on how much you need. The ones I've got are pure enough.