Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[luvtolean]

My ER is tempermental in its own way too.

[bergzy]

Originally posted by adrinal

I think the 2 medium sized skimmers vs one large is deffinatly worth it if you can spare the space.

i just acquired another skimmer for my tank for redundancy.

unfortunately, it is even larger than my main skimmer at the moment. so, i will now have two reef concepts skimmers: an aerofoamer 830 and an aerofoamer 848. one will be injected with ozone.

i will let everyone know if this will result in a question i asked a while back about if was possible to overskim.

[Travis]

bergzy, but why not get two different types of skimmers? That way you get the added benefit of possibly getting 2 different qualities of skimmate. Two different types of skimmers may take out a wider variety of organics than two of the same type of skimmer. Not that having 2 of the same type of skimmer is a bad thing.

[bergzy]

Originally posted by Travis
bergzy, but why not get two different types of skimmers? That way you get the added benefit of possibly getting 2 different qualities of skimmate. Two different types of skimmers may take out a wider variety of organics than two of the same type of skimmer. Not that having 2 of the same type of skimmer is a bad thing.

thats a really good point!

didnt think of that...

at the present, i have the aerofoamer 830...

and the 848...well, it basically was a bargain...so, i couldnt resist!!!

since you raise such a good point, i may not hook it up and trade it for a deltec or something like that...

the 848 is a bad mother of a skimmer though! but, bigger is not always better...it will require a huge pump to drive it though (huge=expensive to buy and operate!)

[Travis]

Yeah, that is just what I have gathered from reading Anthony's posts in this forum. Seems like 2 different types of skimmers would be the best way to go.

[Fred_J]

Thanks Anthony,
I just used a couple of your suggestions and got 1/2 cup of brown skimmate in a 12 hour period with an Excalibur skimmer. I had planed on putting a stronger pump on the skimmer but now it is not needed.
Thanks
Fred

[carsonc]

Travis have you ever seen a list of skimmers and a description as to what they are better at collecting. I too think Anthony's idea of more than one would be a good idea, but I don't know how to tell what each type of skimmer is better at.
Carson

[Studioksr]

Carson, did you ever get your skimmer to work better? Mine is finally skimming after I added an air pump to push more air in through the pump. (This was one of Anthony's suggestions to test and find out what the problem with your skimmer was)

I consider this a temporary solution, though and am considering whether to try a more powerful pump. First I am going to try to either build a better venturi, or modify a Mazzei venturi I finally found locally this afternoon.

Fred J -- what did you try that worked?

[Fred_J]

Studioksr
I placed the skimmer in a raised rubber pail with the display overflow going directly to it. I then changed the original airline Venturi which was for the Rio 800 pump to one that comes with a maxi-jet. They seem to be a lot more adjustable. I was even shopping for another skimmer. Now I'm looking for a metal needle valve.
I actually don't need any other changes sense it is working so well.
Fred

[carsonc]

At this point the skimmer is working better than it has ever done, that said it is not producing a lot of skimmate. The last few things I have done is to use a sedra 7000 for the RC pump with the NW out of the sedra 3500. I think they are the same size but could be wrong. The thing that I think did the most to help was to add the air valve on the intake of the Venturi. I did add a flowmeter as in the posts about the beta ER pump and it does give me a little feed back as to where I have it adjusted. The flowmeter has a good needle valve on it.
What the skimmer does now is to collect a really dark gunk that is not really liquid and deposit it on the cover of the collection cup and the top of the foam riser tube. This stuff is so thick that you can't just wipe it out of the tube, you have to use a brush or something. but there is not much of anything that collects in the cup.
One odd thing about the flowmeter is that others talk about getting 15 liters/m and I only get 3 l/m, but if I turn the air up to the max 3 l/m it overflows the cup, most of the time it is at about 2 - 2.5 l/m when it is making the really dry stuff.
I put a post in the DIY forum to see if any one would comment on just what is happening when you restrict the air going into a Venturi but there were no takers. What seems odd to me is that the air valve is several feet away from the Venturi so I don't see how it could be aspirating the flow, it only is reducing it. If one wanted to aspirate the flow thru the Venturi I thought they would have to have the restriction right at the air/water contact of the Venturi. I probably understand auto engines more than I understand skimmers and what we are doing with the air valve is like putting too small an air clearer on an engine rather than re-jetting the carb.
BUT it is working better than it ever has, just not what I had hoped for.
Carson

[Travis]

Originally posted by carsonc
Travis have you ever seen a list of skimmers and a description as to what they are better at collecting. I too think Anthony's idea of more than one would be a good idea, but I don't know how to tell what each type of skimmer is better at.
Carson

There is no such list currently, that I'm aware of. However, if you think about it a little you will understand that there should be differences. For example, let's compare a beckett skimmer rated for 500 gallons and a recirculating needle wheel skimmer rated for 500 gallons.

Let's say we are pushing around 1000 gph through the beckett skimmer to really get it to produce a lot of bubbles and skim well. While it is producing a lot of bubbles and skimming well, it is processing a large volume of water over a short period of time.

Now let's take the needle wheel skimmer and say we are pushing around 400-500 gph through it, as you don't need to push as much flow through them to get them to work. But, just for this example, let's say that we are pushing the exact same amount of air through the needle wheel skimmer that we are pushing through the beckett. Now the needle wheel is processing a smaller volume of water over a longer period of time. It is actually processing twice as much air through each gallon of water that runs through the skimmer. Therefore, it is stripping the water even more than the beckett is.

But, the beckett is processing more water at a time so while it may not be stripping the water as clean it is processing a lot more water per hour.

So if you were to put each of these skimmers on the same tank you would get the added benefit of the beckett processing a lot of water very fast and you would also get the benefit of the needle wheel processing less water at a time but stripping it cleaner.

As for qualities of the actual skimmate, it is hard to say. I have never been able to get the "black" skimmate out of a beckett skimmer that you can get out of a needle wheel. It is usually a lighter color but I can see that a lot of solids collect at the bottom of it. It may be the same skimmate with more water in it or it could be a completely different quality of skimmate than the needle wheel. Only test could answer the question.

Dave Botwin (O2manyfish) decided to run a large skimmer comparison test comparing many of today's popular skimmers such as Euro Reef, H & S, Deltec, Bubble King, MRC, Aqua C, Via Aqua, Geo, etc., etc. The testing has been nothing close to scientific but it is a good reference to look at for those who are in the market for a skimmer. The idea of the testing was to run 4 or 5 skimmers at a time. Eventually, all of the skimmers, except for one should stop skimming. This means that the one that is still skimming well is working the best. Then the winner of each bracket faces off in the championship round. The testing took a major hault when Dave's system crashed but he is still planning on publishing the results with different people's opinions on each skimmer and the "quality" of skimmate from each skimmer. Here is the thread: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/...mer+comparison

[coderabit21]

Okay, I am in the process of doing the modifications to my Kent TE skimmer. I added a gate valve and got a needle valve with air pump installed witht the skimmer. However, I thought as long as I'm at it to add a better pump over my rio2500 and got a mag9.5. Now the Mag cavitates, would a ball valve be my best option or should I get a different pump?

[Anthony Calfo]

try throttling back the pump a bit first... it may be that simple. And the resistance on a mag drive causes no harm whatsoever (to pump life/wear)

[coderabit21]

Throttle it back with a ball valve? I also loosened my bulkhead from my overflow in the process and now it has a slow drip. I am unable to get to the nut because I made a tight fit for the hole on the stand. Any suggestions?

[Anthony Calfo]

a gate valve on the outflow (as per previous mentions in this thread)... never on the inflow with pumps, mate.

As for the bulkhead... there are tools for tightening them in tight spots (see bulkhead mfg sites). Are you sure you cannot even get a screwdriver in there for leverage to twist against?

[coderabit21]

Sorry about all the questions. I have a gate valve on the outflow of the skimmer, and that didn't work. Are you saying to add another on the outflow of the pump? I'll go try the screwdriver right now.

THanks, Cody

[Anthony Calfo]

you were commenting on cavitation from the pump and asked if you should get a ball valve or new pump.

I'm suggesting a gate valve on the outflow of the pump to reduce the pump flow/cavitation before it enters the skimmer. This is the skimmer pump you are talking about, yes?

[coderabit21]

Yes, I am talking about the skimmer pump. Sorry if I was a little confusing. Right now I have the pump go into the skimmer, then the water exits and goes throught the gate valve. Now I am going to move the gate valve from where it is to before the water enters the skimmer. If that makes since?

I couldn't get leverage on the screwdriver because I have a union in the way (I knew someday I would regret putting the bulkhead in the way it is ). I'll have to drain the overflow and then take it apart. Hopefully I'll be able to get some leverage after that.

Thanks!

[Anthony Calfo]

doh!... don't move the skimmer gate valve bro (you'll lose he benefit of control from it on the skimmer's active water level/interface with the active foam level).

The skimmer gate valve has nothing to do with the pump outflow gate valve. You need two valves in this case.

[coderabit21]

It must be late . I think we're all clear now, clear as skimmate :lol.

Thanks for the help.

[Phillips]

Anthony,

I had removed the sponge from my Euroreef skimmer with the same reasoning as you outlined above. I've been using clear plastic tubing over the outflow to keep splashing under control.

But a week or so ago, with no clean filter socks lying around, and needing to trap the detritus I was blowing off the rocks, I slipped it back on. Immediately the skimmer went into overdrive, spewing foam all over the sump. I had to reach into the sump and lower the outflow tube to bring it under control.

Now I was rather puzzled over this because usually my skimmer won't produce any skimmate for awhile if my arm has been in the tank, yet here it was, foaming like crazy! My paranoia set in thinking I had started working on my tank w/ soap somewhere on my arm, but no, I remembered carefully rinsing my arms off before I started, and no tank inhabitants were acting as though something foreign was in the water.

So, I decided to leave the sponge on the skimmer to see what happened. And ever since skimmate production has far exceeded what it was without the exit sponge.

Any ideas why the sponge is improving skimmate production???

[Travis]

Phillips, what did you do with the sponge from the time you removed it to the time you put it back on? Did you wash it in the laundry machine? Did you rinse it vigorously under water? My only guess would be that if you didn't clean it really well then the detritus trapped in it may have dried up and started decomposing. Then when you put the sponge back on you had a put a bunch of waste in the water from the detritus that had been decomposing for some time. Just a guess though.

[Phillips]

Hi Travis,
No the sponge was clean. I had flushed it out completely before I had put it away, and rinsed it out again before I put it back on the skimmer. Anything that goes in the tank doesn't get washed with detergents, maybe chlorox if the grunge, algae, etc., is bad, but nothing else.

[Anthony Calfo]

Ooooh, interesting... and excellent point/reminder:

-----

Phillips: what kind of skimmate was it my friend? This could be telling: wet skimmate tends to be more particulate laden (as with Travis' theory above about the disturbed sponge imparting matter). But dry skimmate is more proteins/DOCs dense.

I'm guessing your bountiful skimmate is/was lighter (tea colored).

Not that that is bad, mind you.

The wet versus dry controversy is not much controversy at all.

If I had a fish only tank with larger fish (size/population) but few if any filter feeders (ala reef tank)... then I'd opt for wet skimmate to remove as many solids/particulates out as possible.

But in reef aquaria... some of these particulates are good filter-feeder food! And invertebrates are generally more sensitive to escalating/concentrating dissolved organics than fishes are... so for reef aquaria, I prefer to lean towards darker/drier (coffee colored) skimmate.

[Phillips]

Hi Anthony,
Ooops! forgot that insignificant little detail...it's very dark skimmate. I always set the outflow tube so that the skimmer collects very dark junk. When it went crazy post-sponge-reunion, it was as clear as it could be, but after I lowered the tube, it was hard at work again collecting dark espresso colored stuff, and lots of it.

That's the most puzzling thing to me: my skimmer is many times more efficient w/ the sponge than w/ it off, collecting tons more dark crud w/ the sponge. Why, oh why, is this so??? I really don't see how the sponge on the outflow makes the skimmer collect more dark green espresso-thick junk, but it is!

Any more ideas???