The Seascape Nazis

[and1varsity23]

I wen't into Seascape Aquatics today on Academy and Union, in Colorado Springs. It was absolutely horrible. The owner of the store is a complete ****head! I went in looking to buy some sand and the guy absolutely had a fit over some simple questions I was asking about the different brands and his pricing compared to Marine Depot. He told me he was getting sick of answering my questions and i was waisting his time. The store wasn't even busy, I WAS THE ONLY ONE IN THERE! He told me to get out of his store if i did not support it, and waist my time with ****ing Marine Depot. How is his store still up and running with the way he treats his customers. I have never experience customer service like that in my life. I was talking to my neighbor and he told me he experienced some of the same from the guy and the lady when he went in. Has anyone else had a similar experience from those liberal A-holes?

[tkeracer619]

Sound like a quality store.

Sounds more like when I used to walk into best buy wearing my circuit city outfit. Yeah you would think it would be ok. One day they escorted my boss out via security. HAHAHAHA good stuff.

You shoulda told him as you left that you were actually just doing local pricing feedback for another upcoming mail order megastore in turn for an additional 10% off on upcoming orders. ^^

and when you left the store they went out back and ....... oh well i will pm you something to laugh about.

[scchase]

Personally I think it is a bit rude to compare pricing of an online store to a LFS the LFS will not ever be able to beat the online stores prices and yes I do puchase items from both sorts of vendors. A lot of the LFS are stuggling for their very livlyhood sroight now because of the competition and I know you might not mind having to buy drygoods online but would you really like to have to buy all your live stuff as well.
End of rant please don't take too much offense just stating my opinion

[tkeracer619]

supporting a LFS and telling someone to leave b/c they ask you some ?'s is two totally different things.

I support the LFS around here but wouldn't if they told me to leave b/c I ordered some salt from liveaquaria.

In sales there were only 3 times I had to tell someone to leave.

1. They wouldn't take a final price. IE kept pushing me and saying im going to leave if i dont get another $20 off. Ok leave.

2. Was saying some pretty bad things about our president, was way drunk, and then started to get ****ed at me for not taking him serious. Do I have to call the police sir, please leave.

3. My boss had a break down and was adding stupid things to tickets. I had to tell the customer that he needed to go down the street b/c I couldn't give him a proper deal b/c my boss was selling him stuff he didn't need at all. Shook my hand and left.


If they treat people like that they won't last long. Thats just simple busness.

and yeah it is pretty rude to compare the prices.... when I talk to the owners of lfs's its on a real level. They might not want to hear it but they need to know there competition. It is common to shop your competitor to see what you are competing against.

Wouldn't it be great if you needed somthing and one lfs sent you to another b/c they knew they had it. I would go back to the first lfs for my next 5 purchases b/c I was so thrilled.

[VikeBron]

Well, where to begin. The guy was totally out of line. He has, I'm sure, had the internet thrown in his face a few to many times.
I had a conversation with a LFS owner yesterday and he voiced a few of his opinions, observations and ideas, and I voiced mine. For any that do not know me, I am not shy and tell exactly whats on my mind. I'm not always right, but that hasn't stopped me yet.
Some of his comments were good and understandable, some not. This LFS has been in the business over 25 years and has seen alot come and go. The only problem is, by his own admission, he has not kept up with the technology and other improvements to the hobby as we have. He has been to busy with the everyday routine of running a business that has seen a large number of his competitors fall by the wayside. His biggest complaint was a consumer coming in and spending an hour or so asking him or his help about a product just to say at the end of the ordeal that they can get it cheaper online. That would frustrate me too. Small business owners cannot affford to do that with, say 5-8 customers a day. It is just not feasable. The lfs owner you spoke of may have just had one of those before you that you ended up with the backlash. Still no justification the way you were treated. I explained to this owner that, as consumers, we wanted to get the best price for our $. He understood that. He wanted me to realize that internet prices do not pay the employees, lights, overhead etc. I understood that.
He also realized that he needs to pay more attention to what is going on in the industry. That is a big step for this gentleman. Old habits die hard. Not to let the cat out of the bag or anything, but FC may see a coral selection like some of the Denver stores in the near future.
With the internet, the lfs is in an uphill battle. They have to adapt and be better at what they do.
Customer service is the major componet. Being treated with respect along with competetive prices should warrent our loyalty as consumers.
Of course when the availability and or pricing is not there, we turn to the internet. That is now just a fact of life and, as much as they don't like it, the lfs is going to have to co-exist...or not.

Just my .02

[The Grim Reefer]

I was at a going out of business sale at a place in Montana and mentioned to a guy who did tank setup and maintainance about a great clown sale on line. The store owner started in with the "thats why I am going outta business, we answer everyone's questions and they go buy online" to which I responded "You have NEVER been able to answer any question I've asked you including what kind of fish is this in your tank. Kinda hard to sell things when you don't even know what your selling". I still can't belive she didn't throw me out.

[Leopard Wrasse]

See Avatar.

["Umm, fish?"]

and1varsity23: I was with you all the way and still agree with most of your statements, 'til I got here:

liberal A-holes

First, how could you possibly know the owner's political bent? Second, why would it possibly matter to their customer service what someone's political bent is? Dude, a jerk is a jerk and there are jerks that'll vote everywhere on the political spectrum and I wouldn't let any one of them into my house.

I myself am a moderate Democrat (and, yes, we do exist), a gun owner, and a strong supporter of a responsible right to bear arms (***cough, cough*** Steve).

If you want to pull politics onto these boards we're all going to wind up ****ed off at each other and it'll be a real shame because there's absolutely no reason why politics of any persuasion should make a damn bit of difference to the reason we're here. The corals in our houses don't care who we vote for. Can we try to remember that?

Rant over.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by "Umm, fish?"
and1varsity23: I was with you all the way and still agree with most of your statements, 'til I got here:



First, how could you possibly know the owner's political bent? Second, why would it possibly matter to their customer service what someone's political bent is? Dude, a jerk is a jerk and there are jerks that'll vote everywhere on the political spectrum and I wouldn't let any one of them into my house.

I myself am a moderate Democrat (and, yes, we do exist), a gun owner, and a strong supporter of a responsible right to bear arms (***cough, cough*** Steve).

If you want to pull politics onto these boards we're all going to wind up ****ed off at each other and it'll be a real shame because there's absolutely no reason why politics of any persuasion should make a damn bit of difference to the reason we're here. The corals in our houses don't care who we vote for. Can we try to remember that?

Rant over.

Typical liberal

I actually agree with you umm, I ain't going to be accused of being a dem anytime soon but a holes do come in all flavors.

Lets keep the LFS bashing non partisan.

[calvin415]

Originally posted by Leopard Wrasse
See Avatar.

Ditto. LOL!

[scaast]

There has been mention of how online places like Marinedepot and liveaquaria "steal" business away from the LFS, but nobody has mentioned how all of the selling and swamping on here affects them as well. We all want the best deal, and if it's from online sources...so be it.

[VikeBron]

Swapping with each other and online buying is completely different. We are not, or at least are not supposed to be commercial ie. for profit. All online are obviously for profit. Yes, we do want the best deal but I for one will be very sad when the day comes when I have to show my little girl pics on the comp screen instead of taking her to a few lfs to gaze. We still have to patronize them but in the same respect, they have to be more in touch with the marketplace. The margins for dry goods in an lfs is no where near that of his livestock. A good lfs will now, and in the future, have a large selection of livestock at competitive prices. Are the prices going to be higher than online...of course they are. It is just a matter of how much more and what we are willing to pay for convienance.That is what will be the difference of who makes it and who doesn't.

and Umm......my goal is to arm every RESPONSIBLE person in America

[scaast]

I didn't mean to imply that we swap or sell for profit...I'm just saying that when we do that it possibly makes one less livestock or dry good sale for them.

I'll be in the market for a Remington SPS 270 WSM soon.

[adova]

Markets are going to change overtime - a fact of business. The business owner has a responsibility to adapt to the market needs. I am sure that most of the online stores used to be LFS's.

The LFS who is ****ed about online stores reminds me of my grandfather who used to deliver the big blocks of ice to cool iceboxes for a living getting mad at the people who invented the refrigerator. He should have started selling refrigerators....

IMO, the new age LFS should be a hybrid - selling online and having a local selection of fish and perishables (frozen food, etc) for the locals. Scale down to a cheaper warehouse like location rather than a retail space (like we every go to an LFS cause they are in a prime location and we just happened to be passing by). Then, concentrate on supporting your local people with maintenance, etc. Locals can then still order online and from you and pick up locally saving shipping - wow - you just beat the online competition!

Conclusion - stop *****ing and do something about it....

Shawn

[adova]

Boy, this system is very sensitive about "curse" words....

["Umm, fish?"]

and Umm......my goal is to arm every RESPONSIBLE person in America

If driving skill is any indication, I'm really sad to say that you'll only get to sell about three guns in Boulder. But my point was, it's not liberals that are trying to keep guns out of responsible people's hands, it's gun control extremists. Most of them may be liberals, but not all liberals are gun control extremists.

adova: Unfortunately, if you aren't geared up to sell online it's a major expense to get yourself there. The big killer is not the cost of setting up the website. It's the fact that you really need to pay an entire extra salary to someone to do all of the horrible data entry every time there's a new shipment, take photos of every incoming animal, change the photos over time as the animal changes, and do all of the boxing and shipping. The truth is, to keep it all straight you really need to do barcoded labels for each animal in inventory, but that costs even more money.

And all that is really a distraction from what should be the LFSs main focus. There is no possibility that they are going to match the internet on price. We're in a part of the country where real estate costs real money. What they can offer you is face-to-face friendly service. They _can_ offer you good advice (some are pretty sketchy on this point). They can offer you the chance to see what you're about to buy. They can let you hold animals for a while in their systems at their risk (if the animal dies you aren't going to pay, right?). And they're very good at coordinating special orders.

All of these things are very valuable services. So, consider what you are giving up when the competition is just about money.

[murfman]

Back on point. I have dealt with Seascape and only once did I see him get ****ed off. I had questioned him on the final price of several items I had purchased. I had forgot one of the items and when it rang up $23 more than I had in my head I questioned him. You could see the muscles in his jaw just tighten up and his face get so red that I thought he was going to explode. I realized MY mistake and said never mind, I figured it out. He has people skill issues. I will say this for the store, it is clean and they usually have the best livestock in the Springs. I can get lightbulbs for the same price as online, and, they will special order anything I want. Will I support them? Yes, I'd rather buy livestock and have it now than wait.

[Milhouse]

OK, here's my issue with a lot of this talk. Why is it that when I go back to Florida, I can get the same livestock for a lot less. Do you guys think it spends any less time traveling? Nope, probably more. Is it all local? Nope, I'm even talking Pacific fish. I think a lot of the stores out here gouge people. Why though? I don't think that they realise that their high prices drive people out of the market. I've been keeping reef tanks for years, but I was raised in Florida. Would I have started them out here? I may never know. It amazes me how I can see something reasonably priced at a store one day(a pump), and then on the shelf next to it there's another product(a bulb) that's REDICULOUSLY priced. I understand the whole "we need to make money thing", but some of these places rip people off.....period.

Now, I don't want online prices. I don't expect them. But if I see a MH bulb online for $60, why shouldn't I expect to pay $80 for it? Why would the local store charge $100. Don't they realize that they are DRIVING people to the online market? I manage a department store. I know how this all works, lol. Sell quantity. If I could make a $20 profit on an item I sell 10 of...well that's obviously better than a $40 profit off of 3 items. Make things more reasonably priced and get people in to the hobby! Most people don't buy livestock online. Once you get those tanks out there, those are possible customers for life!

[mbunakeith]

denver is a very expensive place to live, own a busuness, drive, etc...
having been born in denver, moved away a couple times and moved back. i have noticed that this place is a haven for gougers. there are a lot of really rich people here that will pay out the butt for things and that leaves us "blue collar' people out to fend for ourselves. i am a mechanic and 15 years ago mechanics made about the same as they do now (at least from the shops i worked at) and in those 15 years the cost of living has doubled (energy costs, food, housing ec...). in fact, my house in fort collins sold for 160,000 brand new back in 91' and today it is costing us $260,000. how is the "common" guy supposed to afford anything beyond ramen noodles and pb&j's? i am not looking for sympathy (just a job for my wife!!!), but just to let everyone know what i have seen. i am to the point that i cannot buy anything at the lfs anymore. thank heaven for people selling their goods on this thread, otherwise i wouldnt be able to have an aquarium at all. more power to those that can afford to buy everything brand new at the local store. maybe when my family settles down and the income comes back we can buy at the lfs too. for the record, lfs prices are horrible everywhere. some stores have good deals on certain things, but are out of control on others. (fort collins..cough..cough).
like what has been said before..it seems they lfs's could stock more things at a bit more reasonable prices. for instance, if a light fixture is $500 + $60 shipping and the lfs has the same one for $800, you would be crazy to not buy it online, but if the light was $700 at the lfs, i could justify buying it locally. theoretically, the store would sell more but usually, lfs owners dont sell enough "big ticket" items to keep the doors open. what is the demand for skimmers and light fixtures anyway? if the shop could sell 10 skimmers a day, then they could afford to lower the price. my guess is that most lfs cant sell expensive dry goods at a rate to keep their doors open. most are making it by the skin of their teeth.

[The Grim Reefer]

I grew up in Orange county Ca., you aint seen price gouging. The cost of living here is no more expensive than it was in western Montana. In fact housing is cheaper and so is property tax. Mt doesn't have a sales tax so that evens out a tad.

Livestock prices here are a little lower than Montana, equipment is WAY cheaper.

[VikeBron]

Like Hillary!

When an extremist(and liberal) is as high profile as some, it is guilt by association. It may not be right but is is real.

I agree with you Harry. The lfs owner has not kept up with the ever changing industry which also includes the internet.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by VikeBron
Like Hillary!

Obscene or abusive language is in violation of the user agreement.

[VikeBron]

I'm so ashamed..............that I typed that name

[and1varsity23]

Originally posted by murfman
Back on point. I have dealt with Seascape and only once did I see him get ****ed off. I had questioned him on the final price of several items I had purchased. I had forgot one of the items and when it rang up $23 more than I had in my head I questioned him. You could see the muscles in his jaw just tighten up and his face get so red that I thought he was going to explode. I realized MY mistake and said never mind, I figured it out. He has people skill issues. I will say this for the store, it is clean and they usually have the best livestock in the Springs. I can get lightbulbs for the same price as online, and, they will special order anything I want. Will I support them? Yes, I'd rather buy livestock and have it now than wait.

it is a very clean store and i will probably still get my live stock (if the time ever comes) from them. 1. my 2 year old son loves to go to the lfs. 2. i'm not gonna let some shmuck who probably has more problems then i know effect my day or where i wan't to buy my stuff. The point was if he is so concerned about how is buisness does to the online market, he should be alot more carefull on how he treats his customers. or maybe just take an anger management class to deal with newbies like me who don't know anything. just a thought.

[beetle-b]

Originally posted by Milhouse
OK, here's my issue with a lot of this talk. Why is it that when I go back to Florida, I can get the same livestock for a lot less. Do you guys think it spends any less time traveling? Nope, probably more. Is it all local? Nope, I'm even talking Pacific fish. I think a lot of the stores out here gouge people. Why though? I don't think that they realise that their high prices drive people out of the market. I've been keeping reef tanks for years, but I was raised in Florida. Would I have started them out here? I may never know. It amazes me how I can see something reasonably priced at a store one day(a pump), and then on the shelf next to it there's another product(a bulb) that's REDICULOUSLY priced. I understand the whole "we need to make money thing", but some of these places rip people off.....period.

Now, I don't want online prices. I don't expect them. But if I see a MH bulb online for $60, why shouldn't I expect to pay $80 for it? Why would the local store charge $100. Don't they realize that they are DRIVING people to the online market? I manage a department store. I know how this all works, lol. Sell quantity. If I could make a $20 profit on an item I sell 10 of...well that's obviously better than a $40 profit off of 3 items. Make things more reasonably priced and get people in to the hobby! Most people don't buy livestock online. Once you get those tanks out there, those are possible customers for life!

i agree 100%. I tend to buy most of my stuff from on-line vendors and people on this site. For me personally this has only been this way after, I discovered the hobbies presence on the internet. When I walk into stores in Ft C. its not like the prices on fish and drygoods are marked up 20 to 30% compared to the internet...it is like 100% and greater. Corals on the other hand are some times the same price as the internet in Fort C and Denver, from what i have seen. Where the stores in Fort C and Denver can't compete with the internet is selection in corals. The drygoods thing is what drives me crazy, in Fort Collins I will periodically check on items to see if they have dropped in the store at all but they don't, for instance I recently was looking for an acrylic scratch removal kit...LFS in fort C for $55...online $20...algae scraper...lfs...$35..online $14... it is things like that, which make it a no brainer for me. I even recently went into a LFS in Fort Collins to inquire about T5 products...and the store clerk said that the owner is set in his ways and refuses to carry the products. Ok..easy decision for me, I walked out, went home and bough the stuff from reefgeek.com. It is too bad IMO, as I love to go to the LFS but it always seems to get harder and harder.