Randy, info on the lighting for your chaeto fuge

zep · #1 09/01/2003, 11:05 AM

Hi Randy,

What lights exactly are you using on your refugium that contains the chaetomorpha? Is there any way I could see a picture of your setup?

I just got some Chaeto and am trying to determine if the lighting I have will be appropriate for it. I have 3 - 36 watt power compacts about 12 inches above the chaeto. Two of the bulbs are 1/2 actinic and 1/2 10,000 k and one bulb is entirely 10,000k. they are mounted under a spider type reflector. This setup worked well for the razor caulerpa I had been growing but after reading the thread you started in the algae forum I wonder if it will work for the chaeto. It is important I set up optimal conditions for the chaeto because I have been fighting a bryopsis outbreak for over a year now and if the chaeto doesn't work then I may just have to give up the hobby. I really am at the end of my rope.

I would be able to purchase a similiar lighting setup as yours if you feel it would be beneficial to me. I also have some unused 36 watt 6700k bulbs I could replace the blue bulbs with but they seem much less intense than the bulbs I am currently using. Does the chaeto want spectrum or power?

I have tried all the regularly recomended fixes for algae problems but it seems like the more I perfect my systems parameters the more the bryopsis thrives. My only hope (as far as I can tell) is to keep my alk, ph, and calcium as high as possible to encourage coralline growth in the areas I remove the bryopsis each week and to hopefully outcompete the bryopsis with the chaeto.

I realize this forum is for chemistry but I respect your opinion on this subject and wanted to hear what you recommend.

Thanks so much Randy

Randy Holmes-Farley · #2 09/01/2003, 12:12 PM

Here's a thread that describes what I've been using:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=231899

Is the Chaetomorpha growing, and you want it to grow faster, or is it not growing, or do you not yet know?

Does the chaeto want spectrum or power?

Until my recent experience I would have said definately power (or PAR or whatever terms one wants to use). Now I'm leaning toward thinking that too blue of light is not optimal for Chaetomorpha. Your lights are fairly blue. If you have actually determined that the Chaetomorpha is not growing, warmer color tenmp (redder) bulbs might be worth a try.

Iron may also be worth a try.

Finally, have you measured nitrate or phosphate? Bryopsis is a tough problem, and I'm not certain that macroalgae will necessarily out comptete it for nutrients.

SPC · #3 09/01/2003, 12:28 PM

Hi Justin,

I was just wondering about something you said and thought I would bring it up (hope I don't screw up your thread

)

I have never had a bryopsis problem, although I have had a problem with some type of red algae that came in on Fla L/R as well as a valonia problem that is on going.

How does bryopsis spread? The reason I ask this is that the red algae in my tank would spread by any small piece broken off sprouting in another area. It also spread in its immediate area by what seemed to me as a branch touching a surface and sprouting a new plant. In order to remove this algae, I actually had to go down in the rock a bit (digging) to get it out. I made this a weekly ritual for about 2 months, and finally got all of it. Scrubbing the rock did not work of course, due to this algaes ability to break off at the rock surface and regrow. Can bryopsis not be gotten under control in this same manner?
Thanks,
Steve

zep · #4 09/01/2003, 12:56 PM

Hi Randy,

I'm actually not sure how the algae is doing as I have only had it for a week now.

I use an Aquarium Systems phosphate test and never get any coloration at all. I use the same brand test for low range nitrate as well and do not get any color with that as well. I understand that the phosphate test I use probably only tests inorganic phosphate and may not be of use to me. I also understand that the lush growth of bryopsis may be using the phosphate and nitrate so fast that I may not be able to successfully measure it.

Before I had the bryopsis however, I was never able to detect nitrate or phosphate.

As for the iron, I am afraid to add it for fear of stimulating the bryopsis.

I am dissapointed that you feel that the Chaeto may not out compete the bryopsis. It really is my last hope. This is what I have done/am doing up to this point:

Parameters:
I keep the Alk at 3.5 (I add kent super buffer every two to three days)
ph averages 8.2
calcium untested (test kit is a few years old)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate and low range nitrate - 0
I use 5 gallons of kalk as top off exclusively every 1 or 2 days
I mix 2 teaspoons of calcium chloride with 4 oz of RO water and add about 25 mill of the mix every day
I add magnesium when I begin to have trouble keeping the ph up.
My south down sand has begun to clump up into small pieces.
temp 77 to 79 degrees during day, 76 degrees at night

Tank - 105 gallon with 20 gallon sump/refugium
refugium lights on 24 hrs/day
main tank lights - 440 watts VHO and a 175 AB metal halide and a 400 watt AB metal halide. VHO on 12 hours, halides 8 hours
tank is a conglomeration of all the smaller tanks I have had over the last three or four years (started small and kept getting bigger) that were all very successful.
2 to 3 inch southdown sand bed
Home made beckett skimmer - works well
chiller.

things I have done to fight algae:
Installed refugium
pull algae manually by hand at least weekly (really helps spread it to all areas of the tank)
I have a yellow tang and a hippo tang
About 100 hermits
about 30 astreas
1 - 4" or 5" abalone
3 - 1" queen conchs
4 - emerald crabs (mithrax)
have put in 50 Elysia sea slugs up to this point but the system pumps decimate them.
pulled out 3 inch seafloor grade bed (which had worked well for years) and added 2 -3" of southdown hoping it would act as a sponge.
I used to do weekly 30 gallon water changes but it really stimulated the growth of the bryopsis and I would usually get a dinoflagellate bloom afterward (snails and hermits would graze it for a few days and die). I changed the membrane in my RO unit but still experienced the extreme growth of the bryopsis but no more dinoflagellate problems.
Replaced light bulbs - this really helped the bryopsis grow.
I have tried two types of foxface rabbit fish.
I have tried tuxedo and diadama urchins but removed both because after they eat the coralline algae, the bryopsis takes over that spot.

I have lost about 20 30 corals because the bryopsis just grows over them. The only thing I have left are soft corals and some LPS corals that are able to expand beyond the reach of the algae.

This is probably more than you wnated to know but I hope it may give some insight into what I am doing wrong.

Thanks Randy,

zep · #5 09/01/2003, 01:04 PM

SPC,

Hi,

Yes, pruning the bryopsis just spreads it to other areas of the tank. If I leave it to the herbivores, they can't keep up and it spreads to adjacent area's.

I am a full time student and I work almost full time so I can only spend a few hours on the weekend plucking algae. It doesn't seem to matter how often I do it. Nothing I do seems to matter.

Thanks for the suggestion,

zep · #6 09/01/2003, 02:01 PM

I thought I would add some pictures to help you visualize what is happening:

this one is of a couple of coral skeletons I kept of my dead corals:

zep · #7 09/01/2003, 02:13 PM

here is some algae in the tank

zep · #8 09/01/2003, 02:15 PM

here is the skimmer

zep · #9 09/01/2003, 02:16 PM

this is the chaeto

zep · #10 09/01/2003, 02:18 PM

here is what's left of the tank

sorry that these pics are so low res. the cost algae fight has killed any chance of me getting a new camera

Randy Holmes-Farley · #11 09/01/2003, 05:04 PM

I am dissapointed that you feel that the Chaeto may not out compete the bryopsis. It really is my last hope.

I'm not saying it won't. I just don't know. I do know that bryopsis is often an algae that is a problem even in low nutrient tanks, unlike many ofther "problem" algae.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #12 09/01/2003, 05:06 PM

It's hard to tell from the pic, but your chaetomorpha looks OK. I'd give it some time. I understand the concern about the iron. Maybe as the last, last resort it would be worth a try. IME, and that of others, it has helped various macroalgae win out over microalgae, but I do not specifically know about the battle between bryopsis and chaetomorpha.

zep · #13 09/02/2003, 11:50 PM

Thanks Randy!

I'll keep it in mind; there could be a point where I will have to try anything.
Thanks for the info and the link to the information on your lighting.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #14 09/03/2003, 01:19 PM

You're welcome.

Good luck!

Masoch · #15 09/04/2003, 07:07 AM

In my fight against bryopsis, I realized that the bryopsis catches detritus. I asked the resident guru of creepy-crawlies, Dr. Ron, if anything would forage in the bryopsis; he wasn't aware of anything in particular, but said some species of cerith snails might. So ... bryopsis becomes a detritus trap. As it breaks down, it'll provide nutrients needed for the bryopsis ... and on and on we go.

So ... I've been cleaning out my bryopsis with a turkey baster every day. Things have been getting better ... but my next line of attack = non-aluminum phosphate sponge. I get 0 on test kits ... but I think the bryopsis sucks it up as soon as my tank produces any.

SPC · #16 09/04/2003, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Masoch
In my fight against bryopsis, I realized that the bryopsis catches detritus. I asked the resident guru of creepy-crawlies, Dr. Ron, if anything would forage in the bryopsis; he wasn't aware of anything in particular, but said some species of cerith snails might. So ... bryopsis becomes a detritus trap. As it breaks down, it'll provide nutrients needed for the bryopsis ... and on and on we go.

Thats my theory too, Masoch. I believe that most of our nuisance algae feeds off the rock itself, and what it catches as you said.
Steve