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Old 07/29/2005, 06:37 PM   #1
ayrton
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For anthony: questions about ozone

Hi Antony,
I'd like to use ozone in my 425 gallons FOWLR new tank but I'm afraid about conseguences of his use.
Some very experienced hobbists have wrote on this forum that ozone will affect rubber parts.
Things like the tubing for the venturi on your skimmer, power cord insulation, the o-rings around your skimmer that come in contact will go bad.
Is possible that ozone will deteriorate silicone glue of my tank?
What do you think about all these bad things?
And if I'll use ozone, is it better Red Sea Aquazone 100 or 200 for my predators tank ...and what dosage...10%, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%?
Sorry Anthony for so many questions about O3 but I'm vey confused and you are "the way to follow" for me!
Thanks a lot
One of yours many italian fans

Lorenzo


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Old 07/29/2005, 09:40 PM   #2
Anthony Calfo
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buonasera, Lorenzo

I do understand that many hobbyists are concerned about ozone use.

But rest assured that it is the standard for professional aquarists in coral farms, fisheries, public aquariums, etc.

It is true that ozone weakens some plastics and rubber, but it takes many many years for the damage to have any small impact.

And this only relates to the skimmer or cylinder that you inject into because all outflowing water must be passed over carbon.

Therefore... all other plastic, rubbers and your silicone seals are never put at risk. In fact... if there were enough residual ozone getting past the ozone reaction chamber... your fish would be dead long before any seals were ruined

Please... have no fear. Ozone is easy and safe to apply if done correctly. Just like using iodine or calcium hydroxide... both of which can be quickly lethal to aquatic life if they are overdosed the same.

As for what size ozone and dosage... please follow the mfg recommendations for tank size, and be sure to only ever dose ozone via a RedOx controller. This makes it safe and easy. Dial your setpoint on the controller to 350-400mv

kind regards,

Anthony


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Old 07/31/2005, 01:11 PM   #3
ayrton
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Thanks Antony for your quick and useful answer.
I'd like to know if the carbon that I have to use for the air outflow, over the collection cup of my skimmer, can be that which I use normally for the aquarium use or it has be a particular kind of it for air use?
And how much carbon I have to use under my skimmmer water outflow?
Thanks again for your precious help!
best regards

Ciao

Lorenzo


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Old 07/31/2005, 01:15 PM   #4
Anthony Calfo
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almost any kind of carbon will catch ozone in air or water. No worries


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Old 07/31/2005, 01:59 PM   #5
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How much carbon I have to use under the water outflow of the my skimmer?

Thanks

Lorenzo


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Old 07/31/2005, 07:24 PM   #6
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just enough so that no water by passes it. As little as 3 oz... not much more than 6 oz. Change regularly as with any inline carbon (no longer than monthly)


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Old 07/31/2005, 11:54 PM   #7
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This post has been helpful! Thanks to both of you!


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Old 10/23/2005, 05:55 AM   #8
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Hi Anthony,
I have another question: My skimmer have three pumps each drawing in air into the skimmer through venturi for foaming; I have to hook all three venturi airline directly to the output of the ozone generator or only one of these is enough?
And the pump/s hooked to the output of the ozone generator will deteriorate quickly? Is there something I have to do?
Thanks, as usual, for your precious support.
Lorenzo


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Old 10/23/2005, 11:13 AM   #9
Anthony Calfo
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Lorenzo,

you only need to hook one line up to the ozonizer, my friend... but it sounds like you have a rather nice and expensive skimmer!

Even if it is mostly ozone-stable (safe), I still would not likely run ozone through it. Its not that great of an advantage overall.

It would be better to make a very cheap "ozone reactor" out of PVC pipe... or buy a second used "junk" skimmer to serve as a ozone reacter.


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Old 10/23/2005, 11:41 PM   #10
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Anthony,
why do you say it's better to use something else it isn't my skimmer for processing ozone?
Problably even best skimmer and its pumps will deteriorate using ozone through it?


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Old 10/24/2005, 12:11 AM   #11
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I am suggesting the use of a used, cheap or "junk" skimmer as a sacrifice unit... rather than ruin your expensive model.


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Old 10/24/2005, 10:33 AM   #12
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my ozone generator produces much more ozone than my tank needs (i am runjning it on a controller), so I am not very concerned with it running efficiently. Are there any other disadvantages to just using an airstone to get the ozone into the watter?

Also, I was reading on the Euro reef website and they don't recommend using ozone in the skimmer because it breaks down the organics before the reactor can get to them. Would it be better then to run the ozone after the reactor is givne a chance to process the watter?


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Old 10/24/2005, 11:41 AM   #13
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many folks notice that ozone at first improves skimmate performance... then later seems to reduce it. True indeed that at some point, especially in low bioload systems, the ozone and skimmer sort of "compete" for organics. But thats not a bad thing! Why should we care which gets what portion of the organic load first so long as they are processed soon and thoroghly!

Skimmers + ozone are good, my friend.

Ozone is good when used properly.

Euro-reef has a quirky and misguided perspective on ozone use IMO. Fabulous skimmers though. One of my fav brands.


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Old 10/24/2005, 11:52 AM   #14
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is there any down side to running the ozone with an airstone outside the skimmer, provided my RedOx controller reads appropriately?


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Old 10/24/2005, 12:05 PM   #15
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well... no problem as long as you are somehow capturing all effluent air and water over carbon (residual ozone).

This really is done best/easiest with a skimmer (new or used/sacrificed) or ozone reactor. A small satchel of carbon on the top air vent and a small filter bag of carbon on the effluent water outlet tidy this up nicely.


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Old 10/24/2005, 12:30 PM   #16
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I agree with using a separate old skimmer or reactor for ozone input. I use an old Red Sea Berlin Classic for ozone input and an AquaC EV-120 for actual skimming.

I feed the EV-120 from a pump in a small-contained area in my sump where the water flows direct from the overflow. I have the old Berlin down line from there in the sump away from the EV-120 with the effluent output running over carbon before heading to the return pump.

The old Berlin also came with a carbon air filter cap so I just fill that up with carbon to filter out any stray ozone from the air. I replace both of the carbon filters (air and effluent) once every 4 weeks or so.

I have my orp setpoint set at 360mv and dose around 45mg per hour on my 90 Gal. FOWLR. The water stays so clear that it looks like the fish are suspended in air.

IMO I believe that ozone (if used properly) is very beneficial for Reefs as well as Fish only systems.

-Jerry


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Old 10/24/2005, 12:43 PM   #17
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jbphoenix - thank you for sharing your experience/opinions... we share the very same sentiments, I reckon.

I'm going to sticky this post as a tidy lead into ozone for fellow aquarists.

To summarize some points/perspectives:

- aquarists need only to look to other successful models of aquatic science and aquaculture for reassurance that ozone is very beneficial. You will rarely see a public aquarium or professional hatchery or the like that does not use ozone. They all do, and many aquarists would benefit greatly if they did too. I of course use it as well.

- its advantages are many: increased RedOx (measure of water quality) which in part inhibits many nuisance algae/organisms from growing, reduction of organics, increased oxygen saturation, dramitically improved water clarity (crystal clear water!) which optimizes trhe delivery of your expensively produced(!) reef lights to corals (huge advantage here), diseases control... the list goes on.

- it is easy to dose and easy to overdose with neglect... just like numerous other reef chemicals/additives such as Iodine and Calcium (hydroxide).

- application is simple: add ozone via an air pump to the air/venturi inlet of a ozone stable (plastic) skimmer, or simply into a junk skimmer that will be sacrificed as an ozone reactor. Catch all effluent air and water with a small satchel of carbon that is changed monthly at least. This will remove any residual ozone.

- always use a RedOx meter or controller to dose ozone

- always use an air drier... even with units that say they do not need one! The techs admit that even such units still benefit tremendously by having drier air (many X times ozone produced in dry air versus humid)

- ideal RedOx range with ozone use IMO are 350-425mv. I personally aim for about 400mv in most tanks


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Old 10/24/2005, 01:29 PM   #18
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Thanks Anthony.. btw I got the idea about providing a separate container for raw overflow water for my EV-120 pump from your thread "Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements". It has greatly improved the skimate production on my EV-120!!

Thanks for providing such a great knowledge base for hobbyist!

-Jerry


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Old 10/24/2005, 01:44 PM   #19
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ah... excellent to hear my friend!

And thanks again for passing the knowledge along as you are doing


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Old 10/31/2005, 10:37 AM   #20
DitchPlains2
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I just bought an Enaly

I bought an Enaly ozone maker, with air diffuser but no air dryer on the input air, can any makeshift device or places to get an air dryer? can I use some damp rid in a plastic container to suck air from?

Secondly,
Will an orp/meter/controller allow me to basically just setup the ozone on a timer and let it go to work once I've dialed in the mv?

thanks
let us ginzos unite...lol.

David


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Old 10/31/2005, 10:53 AM   #21
Anthony Calfo
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an ORP controller will dispense the ozone as per your RedOx setpoints. An ORP meter only measures RedOx instead.

DIY plans for air dryers can be had. The device is staggeringly simple though... a tube full of dessicant (various chemicals can be used safely).


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Old 11/01/2005, 09:16 AM   #22
DitchPlains2
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thanks ANTNEE

thanks again man, your advice is one of the major reasons why I come to reefcentral, well that and all the ladies...."gonna show her my O face, you know, Oooo Oooo" ROFOl....

take care man.

Oh I just switched to those Ushio 10k's you mentioned in another thread I posted on kelvin ratings for greater PAR. Corals are responding great, 3 150 de's 2 10k's a 14k phoniex.

thanks again, and thanks from my corals lol

Dave


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Old 11/01/2005, 12:34 PM   #23
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excellent ot hear the update Dave

mille grazie!


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Old 11/01/2005, 11:49 PM   #24
ayrton
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
I am suggesting the use of a used, cheap or "junk" skimmer as a sacrifice unit... rather than ruin your expensive model.
Anthony,
do you think an old skimmer rated until 130 gallons is enough as ozone reactor for my 540 gallons tank?
Thanks a lot

Lorenzo


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Old 11/01/2005, 11:54 PM   #25
Anthony Calfo
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Its really a matter of height and contact time... no info here on your skimmer specs, but I suspect it will likely do the job easily. Your RedOx with reflect it or not.


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