Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:31 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
You Newbie ROCKHEADS!!!!

Talk about how dense the LR IS! I show you dense!

There had to be about 20 questions this past weekend asking about LR. No wonder John and Greg need to upgrade the server every couple of weeks. Stop all the LR, DSB, alkalinity, calcium, pH crap and this site would run on an IBM PC-AT.

I mean LR is LR----Or is it?

With all the hype surrounding it I can see why anyone would get confused. We have Fuji, Tonga, Marshall, Caribbean and even one named for someone's daughter (Kaileni). Bet she was impressed. Here is a testimonial from a guy who feels he has the ultimate in LR. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ltte/index.htm

The plain fact is that it is all a matter of esthetics. All the above rocks, Lew's excepted, will do a good job of providing the needed biological filtration for your tank. The region where it is harvested mainly has to do with how the rock looks. Aquacultured rock will provide the same benefits of natural rock while preserving the reef. It also has other benefits I will bring up latter.

Besides origin we have the terms fully cured, pre-cured and uncured.

Uncured is rock which some native islander cracks off part of the reef, throws in his canoe, and takes to the "Great White Rock Hunter" in exchange for beads or other trinkets. The rock hunter, then puts it aboard the slow boat to LA (or Key West), from where it sent directly to your door; usually by air since you are now paying the shipping. The travel time of course did not do a lot for the critters on the rock and a majority croak during the trip. Your nose knows, as they say, as you open the shipping box. Wow, talk about stench!

Next we have the "pre-cured". Pre-curing depends on who you get your rock from. In most cases, when the LR reaches LA, it spends some time in a warehouse beings sprayed with saltwater. This helps remove the shipping decay that occurs to that point and also tends to allow unwanted critters, like Mantis shrimp, to climb out and be removed. After a variable amount of time, usually a week, it is then shipped to you.

The fully cured, after reaching the U.S., is placed in seawater filled curing vat. It is usually moved through a series of vats as it ages with each one having less dieoff occurring in it than the one before. This process will normally take about a month or more. Unfortunately, not all suppliers take this route and shortcuts are made. The net result is partially cured rock arriving at your door. If the rock really stinks after the box is opened, and remains that way for a while, your rock was only partially cured.

Aquacultured rock should be fully cured. It doesn't make the long trip from some primitive island to the mainland. If you have it shipped overnight air, or maybe second day, there should be minimal die-off. Given a few days in your tank is should be completely cured with only a small cycle occurring. This is also true of fully cured natural rock that has had proper treatment.

The pre-cured and uncured rock are going to need some cycle time. If you have nothing in your tank you can cure it there. If not, set up a curing tank which can be a trash can what-have-you. You'll want a heater and some power heads to provide circulation. Running a skimmer and carbon also hasten the process. I like to provide some light during curing. If you are doing it outside your tank, a shop light florescent fixture with some of the "Optilume Daylight" bulbs should do. I also do 20% daily water change for the first week then cut back to 10% every couple of days for the remaining cure period. When ammonia and nitrite levels are close to zero and nitrate levels are falling the cure period is done. This should be about a month for uncured, two to three weeks for pre-cured and maybe a week or less for fully cured. The time will vary depending on the quality of the rock and your curing method.

Computer Geek Fizz asked this weekend--
Quote:
Should I wait until I can afford all the rock at once? Or should I buy in pieces?
Referring to whether he should put all the rock in at once of let one batch cycle before adding the next.

Really, it doesn't matter. The big drawback of the incremental technique is that you have a cycle after each addition. It maybe is slightly less each time but the overall effect is to drag the cycle time out.

Usability engineer (I suspect that is a term used by a computer geek that doesn't want the world to know it) bsatanek had the same question as Fizz but also asked,
Quote:
Other controversial issues would be when best to do water changes during this process? Some say not all all, some say parial to full at end? And whether to run a skimmer full-time during the cycle?
As I stated before, "When you have uncured rock run everything you got!" There is plenty of protein and bacteria around for all. Water changes will speed the curing process by removing organics from the system and lightening the overall load on the bio-system. On fully cured and aquaclultured rock you may what to hold off a week or so before doing water changes. I'd still run a skimmer as there is bound to be a little die-off during shipping.

Finally, software geek starting_dude asked,
Quote:
  • If I get live Rock do I need to upgrade my lighting?
  • How do I select live rock? I read a porous one is good. Is there any other way to find a good one from a bad one?
To the first question-Coralline algae is a low light algae and really does not require intense lighting. It does seem to benefit from the use of 03 actinic or other blue lighting.

To the second question-Use RC to find good suppliers. They are out there. Although it may break you wallet you can get fully cured LR from a good LFS. That way you know what you are getting. If you get rock from a LFS ask them to check ammonia and nitrate levels on the rock tank water. That way you'll know it isn't still in cycle.

Light weight, porous LR is probably better for nitrate removal than a dense LR but if you have a DSB then it really would be a question of personal preference.

Well if this discourse Rocked anyones boat--don't expect an apology from me NEWBIES!!!
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #2  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:37 PM
Fizz71 Fizz71 is offline
NCPARS Founding Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,484
I'm confused...should I be offended?

Thanks WaterKeeper.

--Fizz
  #3  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:45 PM
drscheck drscheck is offline
Done....Stopped...Reefin'
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Henrietta, NY
Posts: 1,939
.
__________________
Doug Scheck

Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents; it was loaned to you by your children. - Ancient Indian Proverb

Last edited by drscheck; 06/02/2003 at 03:19 PM.
  #4  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:48 PM
NewMariner NewMariner is offline
Tiny Miracles.
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 2,022
And hes a Team RC member? Can we get a Re-Count? Did Florida screw up the ballots AGAIN on him?
__________________
Tony
  #5  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:48 PM
Paul Stevenson Paul Stevenson is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Stevensonia, Pauland
Posts: 25
No kidding.
  #6  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:54 PM
griss griss is offline
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: In The Jungle
Posts: 11,133
Guys,

Tom's posts are all in fun. They are meant to entertain while educating. In case you missed them, check out his previous threads using his Drill Sergeant style of writing.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=189681

Griss
__________________
George

"You guys confuse me...." ~ mhurley

"So does Sesame Street." ~ BrianD
  #7  
Old 06/02/2003, 02:55 PM
aquaman67 aquaman67 is offline
Me in Iraq
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Back from Iraq!
Posts: 6,326
Take it with a grain of salt. Pun intended.

I like it, WaterKeeper. Keep it coming!

To the people who complain, I guess that's why drill sergeants in basic training can't yell at recruits anymore...lol!
  #8  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:00 PM
Fizz71 Fizz71 is offline
NCPARS Founding Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 3,484
Quite frankly, if we took away all the "LR, DSB, alkalinity, calcium, pH crap" right now it'd be a forum about "Finding Nemo"

--Fizz
  #9  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:12 PM
ginntonic74 ginntonic74 is offline
The love of me life
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey (Yes our governor is gay not that there is anything wrong with that)
Posts: 1,030
Love the articles keep them coming.
__________________
You need only two tools in life: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.
  #10  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:18 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
I think I have run into the IT department backlash.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #11  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:30 PM
freakyreef freakyreef is offline
Toadstool pimp
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eastern Colorado
Posts: 1,913
So how about I get really dense LR and then drill holes in it???
Would this work good?????
__________________
Due to recent cutbacks, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
  #12  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:31 PM
bioballs bioballs is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 41
Hey I'm a newb. How rude, but very, very informative. In fact, I book marked it. lol
  #13  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:37 PM
clsund clsund is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 601
Rockhead coming at ya. Learning bit by bit. I even know enough now to laugh at reefer jokes, dude. Thanks for the info!
  #14  
Old 06/02/2003, 03:40 PM
thrlride thrlride is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Harrisburg, NC
Posts: 7,808
Everyone says to read a book to learn this stuff, I've learned more here in one week than reading an entire book! This passes the time better at work too...
  #15  
Old 06/02/2003, 09:42 PM
wishmaster wishmaster is offline
Hoyt Shooter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,538
What's live rock?
__________________
Sons are put on this earth to trouble their fathers-Paul Newman in Road to Perdition
  #16  
Old 06/02/2003, 09:50 PM
Gabby Tony Gabby Tony is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Springfield, Illinois
Posts: 228
I think I accidently dropped my 20 year old "Pet Rock" in my Tank. I had that baby since I was a kid......Paid $3.95 for it at K-Mart 25 years ago but it came in it's own box. (can't find the box either.)
__________________
Eco-system 3012 filtration
90 Gal
92 lb LR, 15 lbs LS
2 perc clwns
1 Lwnmowr Blennie
1 Yellow Tang
1 Em. Crab
2 Blood Shrimp
4 Turbos
Check my gallery for recent pics
  #17  
Old 06/03/2003, 12:00 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Was it an aragonite rock or just plain sandstone or feldspar?
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #18  
Old 06/03/2003, 12:17 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by thrlride
Everyone says to read a book to learn this stuff, I've learned more here in one week than reading an entire book! This passes the time better at work too...
In most circles I am considered the Reader's Disgust, condensed version.

But I sure got some newbies riled at me TODAY!

My thanks to Fizz, bsatanek and starting_dude for letting me poke a little fun at their posts. Actually most of the stuff I write is based on questions recently asked a lot in this forum. The sarcastic touch is just to keep the interest flowing. Newbies and old timers all have vital input. All posts are welcome at RC so keep em coming!

Heck, I'll even answer posts from Usability Engineers
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #19  
Old 12/11/2004, 08:52 PM
clutch clutch is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 645
Thumbs up

well said thnks for all reading material
  #20  
Old 12/11/2004, 09:05 PM
BraenDead BraenDead is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 947
Coming from a former organometallic chemist - now IT guy, I can say that this article is great, humorous, and I can't wait to see more!

Bob
  #21  
Old 12/11/2004, 09:41 PM
ItsMee ItsMee is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Coeur d 'Alene Idaho
Posts: 1,599
Quote:
Originally posted by freakyreef
So how about I get really dense LR and then drill holes in it???
Would this work good?????
He probably has his DIY rock in mind when asking this question...bump
__________________
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit

After 1400 RC posts I felt guilty for not having a premium membership
  #22  
Old 12/12/2004, 07:11 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Yet another past post comes back to haunt me. Nice to see some of you use the button to find info. It sure helps keep me from repeating myself.

Manmade LR is usually some mix of plain old Portland cement and some crushed coral. There are various formulas out there but most use about 2 parts cement to 2 or 3 parts crushed coral. A mold is made with crushed coral and aragonite and the shape of the piece is scooped out of this sand/coral mix. After a few days the mix cures and the rock is removed. It is then soaked in FW for 4 or 5 weeks to leach out any contaminants. Before soaking you can drill holes or whatever to produce caves and the like.

You find several formulas for making your own on RC. Do remember you will need some real LR to seed the homemade and it will take 4-6 months before it really starts to look like genuine LR.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #23  
Old 12/29/2005, 11:07 PM
pogiboy67 pogiboy67 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: pleasant hill/ san ramon
Posts: 530
why do we need light to cure LR? i leave mine in the trashcan with lid on and only air it in the day
  #24  
Old 12/30/2005, 07:00 AM
MiddletonMark MiddletonMark is offline
troublemaker
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 13,532
Quote:
Originally posted by NewMariner
And hes a Team RC member? Can we get a Re-Count
Hey he's staff, don't blame him on Team RC
[oh wait, at the time, he may have been Team RC]

But of course, I don't think either are democratically elected. As far as I understand, Griss' chimp makes all the decisions.
__________________
read a lot, think for yourself

Last edited by MiddletonMark; 12/30/2005 at 07:15 AM.
  #25  
Old 12/30/2005, 07:06 AM
Shooter7 Shooter7 is offline
Send money....
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Troy, IL - near St. Louis
Posts: 6,056
I love it when these old WK threads float up to the surface after being under for so long. They're all packed with bristleworms and other assorted creatures/things...

Considering the topic, would that mean that this thread is now thoroughly "cooked"?
__________________
Dave
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009