Need help w/ DIY HOB skimmer - Page 9

dzeadow · #**201** 12/20/2007, 05:48 PM

I got mine from dwyer directly

dzeadow · #**202** 12/20/2007, 05:57 PM

I was thinking that there was too much draw in it. I'll have to get some type of valve to restrict the flow.. I'm guessing they sell those john guest fittings in 3/8" ID so I can put it on this tubing I have

happyface888 · #**203** 12/20/2007, 09:34 PM

Yeah those john guest ballvalves do come in 3/8's

Its probaly the samething luke used on his rogue.

JCTewks · #**204** 12/21/2007, 12:29 AM

The bouncing on the air meter is from thje pump cavitating ("gulping air")...but at this point you won't get any better results with the stock impeller. THe bladed impeller was not meant at all to be able to handle air. You need to cut those 3 fins off of the impeller and use mesh/GG/ craft mesh/etc...anything really other than the stock impeller before writing this venturi off.

Danny, what size air meter do you have. You really need to find a fitting that will connect the 3/8" airline directly to the meter. I have a few different fittings that I keep with my meter for different size airlines.

dzeadow · #**205** 12/21/2007, 09:54 AM

The air meter I have is a 5-50 scfh. i have 2 fittings for it already, a 1/8 and a 1/4, so I'll just get a 3/8 one. But I'd like to put a valve on the airline because I think it's doing what you're saying. I've already put GG on the impeller and it still does the bouncing. At least it's starting every time... apparently there was someone out there that thought i'd have start up problems

pescadero · #**206** 12/21/2007, 10:18 AM

Danny, i think that the startup problems that people talk about with the quiet one pumps aren't a big problem with the stock pumps. i think that sometimes people run into startup problems with the mesh mod, depending upon how well they execute the mod. There's good info on this in the Quiet One and Sicce pumps threads, and Jeff obviously knows more about this than I do.

Jeff, have you used enough different types of mesh to have a recommendation on what works best and who is a good supplier? i'd prefer a local pickup if at all possible. I even have a McMaster-Carr store nearby. thx,

dzeadow · #**207** 12/21/2007, 10:35 AM

I too would like to hear the best combination of mesh/gg or whatever. I used 2 layers of GG and between that sandwhiched some nylon screen and also 4 layers of GG.. although it looks like I could put more on it, I don't know if it'll do any good. Plus I don't know which is better since my air meter is all over the place.. I'll have to get that valve and 3/8 barbed fitting for the air meter some time today.

luke33 · #**208** 12/21/2007, 10:54 AM

I've never had much luck with GG. It is better than nothing but i like enkemat much better.

dzeadow · #**209** 12/21/2007, 01:11 PM

yeah, I've got plenty of it left so I'll try that out too.. how many layers did you say before? 2 or 3? It seems like it wouldn't fill the space that the blades did, but I guess if I filled that space allt he way up the 1/2", it'd be too heavy and wouldn't start up properly.

JCTewks · #**210** 12/21/2007, 01:26 PM

On the QO3000 I got good #'s with 4 layers of enkamat and a piece of GG holding it all down, trimmed to the diameter of the original impeller. This was of course after removeing the 3 veins off of the stock impeller.

IME with what i've used so far the enkamat mesh is the bast for bubble size, watts, and startup. I've also used GG, needlepointers mesh, and floor scrubber pads.

The cavitating can be attributed to the pump or the venturi. Is that a venturi made like the drawing that I posted? If so, try making the restriction a little smaller and see if that helps with the gulping. you can also mess with how far the restriction in the venturi is from the volute, that has changed air draw for me by 75% before.

dzeadow · #**211** 12/21/2007, 01:38 PM

The venturi is the one you posted... how much more restriction can I get? I actually have it all the way from 3/4 to 1/2 instead of the 5/8 that you have in your drawing. I'll switch the mesh out later today and see if that helps any. It appears that the 2200/3000/4000 all use the same impeller, so I'll probably be able to get away w/ doing the same as you w/ the 4 layers of mesh and 1 GG.

So are you saying to push or pull the pipe where the water outlet would be, to closer or further away and just play w/ it like that? Those pipes were TIGHT in there, I'm not sure if I'm going to get any more movement

. I'll have to rebuild it possibly and bore the 1" coupling out more to get better slippage.

pescadero · #**212** 12/21/2007, 01:57 PM

guys, can you help me decipher some of the mesh names? enkamat? GG? what's the difference? i'd like to know where to go to find these products (and a suitable airflow meter). thanks.

dzeadow · #**213** 12/21/2007, 02:04 PM

enkamat is some type of plastic mesh stuff, you can get it on ebay or order a sample directly from the manufacturer.. i think HappyFace still has the links to how to get them. GG is gutter guard, it's a plastic grid that comes in a 5" by X foot roll (not sure how long it is), it's got a wider pattern, heavier. People usually use this as a base and put the enkamat on it, but as Jeff has mentioned, he uses it to cap off the enkamat. Gutter guard can be purchased at Lowes or HD.r

dzeadow · #**214** 12/21/2007, 02:21 PM

if anyone cares, I think I've got the collection cup down. Taking a closer look at the Rogue's collection cup, it looks somewhat like all it has is two slanted panes under the flat to direct the bubbles into the tube better... somewhat like this:

luke33 · #**215** 12/21/2007, 02:39 PM

The rogue is flat on the bottom and the taper is built onto the skimmer body. But i like that design better if you have no taper on your skimmer body. Other than that its very similar to most hot box skimmer's collection cup.

dzeadow · #**216** 12/21/2007, 02:53 PM

It's similar in design only my friend.. I haven't seen many HOB collection cups that are 5x7x8h w/ a 4" neck.. if I did my calcs right, it's going to hold a lot of fish poop

. I like it like this just because then the whole thing is still adjustable. It should make it a little more effecient.

happyface888 · #**217** 12/21/2007, 03:18 PM

The collection cup looks great, now to see it come to life

. How about you laser on a logo on that lid lol.

luke33 · #**218** 12/21/2007, 03:32 PM

You could call it a DZE Extreme Octo, that way there will be one more line of octo's out there, you know cuz we need another.....but coralvue may throw a lawsuit at you saying they own that name even though they don't manufacture or make them! lol

dzeadow · #**219** 12/21/2007, 04:24 PM

how funny... I'm going to name the build thread: "The Skimmer Listed On The Mitchell Report" or just have a label on it that says "Balco Industries"

Well, I got some stuff today, so I'm getting excited. I had to buy a pex pipe ball valve since Lowes didn't carry a JG fitting for 1/2 OD vinyl tubing. I also got the 3/8" barbed fitting to go into the air meter so I'll be able to test it later today. My weld-on 3&40 arrived today as well, now I just need some sheet goods to get started on the project!

Oh Luke, the way the lid is on the collection cup should still allow stuff to flow back down the neck instead of overflowing correct? I may just thread a barbed fitting of some sort on it just in case as well, and put a collection jug somewhere. I was also thinking of making the lid a type of box w/ another lid on top of it so I could put carbon in it and that way it wouldn't stink! how's that sound?

luke33 · #**220** 12/21/2007, 04:35 PM

Yep, built like that the skimmate will go back into the skimmer.

dzeadow · #**221** 12/21/2007, 05:58 PM

Well, I used a hammer to push the 1/2" pvc closer to the volute hub.. and I put the pex ball valve on and put the right fitting on the air flow meter. When the valve is wide open and it's doing it's cavatation dance, the ball bounces all the way up to 40 scfh.. much higher than it was bouncing before. But after closing the valve a little to keep it from cavatating, the closest reading I can get from it is about 10-12 scfh as it sits right now w/ the gutter guard. I'm going to pull that off now and use 3 layers of enkamat and 1 layer of gutter guard to see what I can get out of it.

I really wish my sheet goods would get here, I'd like to have something to do this weekend!

JCTewks · #**222** 12/21/2007, 06:02 PM

It's really a lot of trial and error when finding the right venturi. Maybe try making a new removable insert and making it's ID a little bigger. just a thought!

I think you'll be happier with the enkamat

dzeadow · #**223** 12/21/2007, 08:00 PM

Well, I've tried doing it several ways and I can't get it to respond the way I'd hoped, so I'm going w/ the last resort which is Luke's prescribed method by just taking a 1/4" dual barbed fitting and slicing it and putting it as close as i can to the volute hub, then I'll start restricting flow from there. The reason I'm doing the easiest thing last is, once you drill into the volute, there's no turning back! I guess you could put some type of closed fitting there, but whatever. We'll see how that turns out.

JCTewks · #**224** 12/21/2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzeadow
Well, I've tried doing it several ways and I can't get it to respond the way I'd hoped, so I'm going w/ the last resort which is Luke's prescribed method by just taking a 1/4" dual barbed fitting and slicing it and putting it as close as i can to the volute hub, then I'll start restricting flow from there. The reason I'm doing the easiest thing last is, once you drill into the volute, there's no turning back! I guess you could put some type of closed fitting there, but whatever. We'll see how that turns out.

Have you done the enkamat yet?

You can do a version of what Luke33 has suggested by putting that barb adapter into a fitting that will screw onto the intake...that way you can undo it.

dzeadow · #**225** 12/21/2007, 08:46 PM

I drilled into the volute cover, put the 1/4" barbed fitting in there and tested... nothing. I put the other venturi thing on but it had a huge hole where the air fitting used to be on it so that produced nothing. I hammered the 3/4 pvc pipe that's on the inside of the original venturi all the way til it covered the hole, then hammered the 3/4-1/2 hand made reducer into the 3/4 pipe until the end was flush w/ the 1" coupling and put that on the pump. Now we're at a VERY stable 10-12 scfh... no more bouncing crazily. I do have 3 layers of enkamat sandwhiched in between the impeller base and 1 layer of gutter guard. Now I have to get better fishing line because the stuff I'm using is junk.

Any ideas on where to go from here to get a few more scfh out of this thing? I thought at 581 gph I'd be able to get more air draw than 10-12 so there's probably something out there.