Reef Ceramics

[mr.wilson]

Originally posted by dendro982
Sideline question about the tanks, shown in this thread, Reef Ceramics and see-trough shortcrete tanks.

They give impression of open and clean space.

I just finished reaquascaping with recommended amount of LR, and my tank looks like a dump (what is the word for stone dump - quarry?). Everything is filled by rock.

Where are you keeping your other rock or biomedia - in the sump?
Thanks.

It depends on what kind of tank you're aquascaping. If it's one of your nano tanks listed in your signature, then they need 2 lbs per gallon. If it's over 50 gallons, then you only need 1 lbs per gallon, in my opinion.

The need for nitrification is dictated by the bioload, not the volume of water. As a general rule, nitrifying bacteria need a certain amount (critical mass) of rock to establish a stable colony. Any additional rock (sites) will not increase the colony, just the amount of real estate available.

There are some good aquascaping tips in this thread.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1001929

Here are a few of my tips, in no particular order.

- try to make it asymmetrical. Symmetry makes it look fake.
- use the small (orange size) pieces on the bottom to make a smaller footprint in the sand.
- hide plumbing etc. first, then continue with the rest of the tank.
- make sure you orient each rock with the "good side" up, while maintaining the natural strata (the position the rock was formed in) of the rock.
- don't place rocks precariously, for function (balance & stability) and aesthetic reasons.
- add substrate when the rock work is half done so the rock sits on the glass and not the sand. Otherwise fish and inverts will undermine, and collapse the structure.
- make an effort to have a low foreground, medium height mid-ground, and taller background, but don't make it too contrived or it will look fake.
- incorporate a small island to make it look bigger and more realistic.
- remember to leave room for coral to grow at the top of the tank (don't go too high).
- try not to make a straight line of uniform height, break it up with peaks and valleys.
- leave some caves for non-photosynthetic corals and cave dwelling fish.
- create stable shelves for corals. You can use a pedestal to hold it up.
- keep in mind that you want as much area as possible exposed to light. Too many overhangs or steep drop-offs will cause excess shadowing.
- use key stones to hold the reef structure together. These can double as bridges.
- Test the stability of the reef as you go. Gently push down on it from above so the rocks lock together naturally.
- when it's done, go around the base and middle and remove rocks that aren't structural. This will open up the reef and create caves without losing structural integrity.
- try to picture what kind of corals you want in each location and design around that. Create a gentle sweeping base for mushrooms on the bottom, and holes in the middle regions to hold euphylia branches for an overhang effect. Leave large areas for leather corals to fill.
- avoid the straight brick wall style at all costs.
- use the biggest rocks before you get stuck with them at the end, when they no longer fit. You can always break them into smaller pieces, but it's a shame when they traveled so far to get to your tank.
- cable ties only last a few years under water, but they can help hold it together as you build and later as corals grow and bond it together. The clear/white cable ties last longer than the black ones.
- if you use powerheads, build caves to hide them and make sure you are able to remove them every couple of months to service.
- make sure that your rock-work doesn't impede with flow from returns or powerheads.
- leave access points for closed loop intakes, so you can use a tooth brush to clean them periodically.
- incorporate large enough coral perches and nooks to avoid stinging from neighbouring corals.
- use large shells or rock rubble at the base so sand sifting fish & inverts can build permanent, stable tunnels. This will stop them from constantly digging.
- leave room between the rock-work and glass for cleaning pads and magnets.
- use the ugly rocks at the back for stability, but don't pack it tight, as you need room for fish and water flow.
- try to leave a channel across the back at the bottom for a closed loop return or powerhead, to eliminate dead spots.
- test fit pieces out of the tank before you put them in.
- don't be afraid of breaking pieces to fit.
- use only as much rock as you need. Don't feel obligated to add more rock just because you have it.
- if you don't like the way it looks, start again.
- always aquascape while the tank is empty (no water).

[mr.wilson]

Originally posted by saltysteven
mr wilson- Id like to know if this idea will work and what are the negatives about it?
I want to get a plastice grill and put down black foam them stick dead live rock (small rubble) into the foam to make a live rock back ground. It would be shaped around my overflow so it would be free standing against the back glass. Is this possible and

what do you think of this technique?


cyanobacteria, dinoflagellates, and diatoms- Im really not sure what these are but im guessing i dont want them.

The aesthetics of that method are a matter of taste. There are a few examples of that method here on RC. If you do a search you can see how it will look in your tank.

I am skeptical of the longevity of spray foam. It only lasts a few years in construction applications before it gets brittle and crumbles when you touch it. My fear is that it will do the same thing in a reef tank. Corrosive salts and UV light may further degrade it.

Foam will never offer the porous, calcareous surface area that cement can. Cement can also take on a natural patina in time, while plastics and foam can only take on coraline algae.

Cement based methods are more durable and if they chip, it looks like rock on the inside. Foam will be more conspicuous when it chips.

Foam is not certified for potable water. It will leach trace amounts of toxins. These may have very little significance and cause no nuisance algae or health problems, but I personally don't think it's worth the trouble.

On the plus side, foam is very quick to apply. If you choose to proceed with the project, where eye protection and gloves, as it's very sticky and hard to get off without strong chemicals. It will get messy as you try to position the live rock pieces in the foam.

You should experiment with the foam to see how well it adheres to wet rock. I don't think it's a problem, as there are many who have used this method.

Some of the foam threads here on RC show tanks that have had good coraline coverage after a year or so. Others make it look like the back of the tank is covered in intestines. What's the name of that animal in Star Wars that Luke Skywalker cuts open to keep warm?

[BeanAnimal]

What is a Tauntaun Alex?

[saltysteven]

mr wilson- i was also worried about the foam looking ugly as i too have seen some not so good looking backgrounds with foam and yea lol it does look like that animals guts. I was hoping to cover evry inch of the foam with dry dead live rock rubble. it would be an expensive experiment since niether the foam or rock is cheap.

My other idea which is more natural is this:
I want to string the rubble rock (needle and fishing line) into many strands that would hang from top to bottom and over lap eachother. The mini pillars would be attached to a bar or pole sitting on top of the tank from left to right.

This was orginally my pillar idea but i realized it woulnt be any good for accessing the inside of the tank. but it would look cool - a tank with mini pillars all over in it.

anyway what do you think of my second idea?
(It would kind of look like those hippie beads you walk through in door ways, buy much more dense)

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
What is a Tauntaun Alex?

Remember Empire Strikes Back on Hoth? Remember when Han Solo slices open that biped riding critter to save Luke's life? That critter is a Tauntaun.

Here is Dick riding a Tauntaun...
[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_RqsJ4TBH48EAUi.jzbkF/SIG=126tfgjcf/EXP=1194472073/**http%3A//home.houston.rr.com/couch/tauntaun_dick.jpg[/img]

here is luke and han posing with a pet Tauntaun...
[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_Rq1G4TBHjVUB5WajzbkF/SIG=127ictilc/EXP=1194472134/**http%3A//www.telcom.es/~jcastjr/starwars/tauntaun.jpg[/img]

[dendro982]

Thank you, Mr. Wilson! Invaluable for me.

Will start over again. It will be plain 20g long tank, holding 6 Christmas tree rocks in a row, 2 toddler clams and anemone. Open from 2 sides - near window, see-through, just like your tanks are.
The only obstacle is that the invertebrates will be waiting in the buckets, until I finish.

Really appreciate your help.

[mr.wilson]

Originally posted by saltysteven
mr wilson- i was also worried about the foam looking ugly as i too have seen some not so good looking backgrounds with foam and yea lol it does look like that animals guts. I was hoping to cover evry inch of the foam with dry dead live rock rubble. it would be an expensive experiment since niether the foam or rock is cheap.

My other idea which is more natural is this:
I want to string the rubble rock (needle and fishing line) into many strands that would hang from top to bottom and over lap eachother. The mini pillars would be attached to a bar or pole sitting on top of the tank from left to right.

This was orginally my pillar idea but i realized it woulnt be any good for accessing the inside of the tank. but it would look cool - a tank with mini pillars all over in it.

anyway what do you think of my second idea?
(It would kind of look like those hippie beads you walk through in door ways, buy much more dense)

Good answers guys. I asked because I forgot, but it also proved to show who reads long posts.

Keep the ideas coming Steven. I'm sure the fishing line will last, even in salt water, but it sounds very labour intensive. If you have to drill holes, it's even more work and you run the risk of introducing heavy metals from the drill bit.

You might want to consider using epoxy to bond the rock to the back panel or a sheet of acrylic or polystyrene. It's a bit of a crazy craft project, but it works. Start at the top in case you lose interest part way through.

If you're trying to save money, you might want to consider using lace rock. You can get small or flat pieces and affix then to the back wall. Slate is usually nonmetallic and dirt cheap from a garden supply or building center. You could break it into small pieces and stack it up the back wall or overflow. Epoxy or even silicone will hold it together.

The most cost effective, and least labour intensive method is cement with shell or aragonite over eggcrate panels...and you don't have to wear a craft apron.

[saltysteven]

hmmmm- your really pushing this cement with shell or aragonite over eggcrate panels idea.

i really do like the idea i just thought the live rock would make a better filter and look better if done correctly but i wasnt going to drill since i have some nice small marco rock bits that all have holes in them to begin with.

and i guess i was looking to do something different.
the designs that you guys do with cement are amazing! i know i would take my time and it would probably take me for ever to do. i must rethink this cement idea.

[mr.wilson]

By all means do something different. Live rock is a great building material to work with.
Although, I wouldn't put much value or necessity in the biological filtration capacity of a back wall panel. You just need enough surface area to discourage nuisance algae and encourage some beneficial bacteria. Smooth surfaces like foam, latex and fiberglass are harder to keep clean.

[saltysteven]

and when you say discourage nuisance algae how do you that?
Is it by covering up the wall with a porous surface and good water flow?

[mr.wilson]

Nuisance algae is like any weed. It grows only where other higher organisms won't.

Nuisance algae will always grow on the glass, but it should never appear on the substrate or rock. The main reason I use concrete (or other treatments) over plumbing and back & end walls is to create fewer footholds for nuisance algae.

[saltysteven]

do you think by making the strings of live rock for my back wall will have a bad nuisance algae effect?

[mr.wilson]

Biologically it will function well. Double check your fishing line to assure it won't get brittle and crack with long term exposure to salt water. You don't want the curtains to fall.

[saltysteven]

lol yea the show will really be over then!
okay well thats what ill do - black background with live curtains.
ill keep you guys posted on how this works if it does

[Insane Reefer]

If I can jump in for a minute, I would like to suggest that instead of fishing line/monofilament, that you use neoprene cord instead? It can be found at hobby stores, usually in the bead section, or you can get it as something like an eyeglass holding cord too, (if you can't locate it elsewhere), and neoprene will last a long time and be more forgiving of the saltwater, I think...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoprene

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
What is a Tauntaun Alex?

Hmm, take "skaters of the 80's" for $500 next

[BeanAnimal]

He Starred in "The Search for Animal Chin" and his first graphic was a rocket ship. He later adopted the Skull and Sword graphic.

[Insane Reefer]

Who is Tony Hawk Alex?

[BeanAnimal]

No sorry, that would be Mike McGill.

Anyway... I suppose we should get back to ceramics

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
No sorry, that would be Mike McGill.

Anyway... I suppose we should get back to ceramics

Too funny.

[saltysteven]

mike McGill- haha i still have one of his old boards, i have an old tony hawk too

i ll check out the neoprene cord, thanx

[saltysteven]

where can i buy this neoprene cord?

[BeanAnimal]

McMaster.com

[Insane Reefer]

Holy plentiful parts, McBatman!

[saltysteven]

wow - i dont even know where to start. that would be a place id love to walk into