The Frogfish Files - Page 7

elvn · #**151** 04/12/2006, 10:37 PM

I've had a few frogfish at different times that didn't survive for one reason or another. I think one was damaged when he climbed the feeding stick trying to gobble the whole stick apparently. Another was most likely due to something he caught from the live feeders I was feeding him (mollies).. his skin got fuzzy.. and he gasped for breath while being inflated.. poor thing. The first was a painted frogfish, the second was a striated angler. One of my frogfish also suffered during a move :-/

Regardless of past history, its been quite awhile and I decided to try again when I saw a tiny black warty frogfish at the LFS for $65. I have a 20g tall tank set up for him with a dusting of sand and some LR from my refugium. I put a 75g rated remora hang-on skimmer on the back with MJ1200 driving it. The tank is on top of a bookshelf next to my computer desk.

He's not taking to stick fed thawed food yet, so I have a few dozen guppies that I feed pellet or flake food before dropping one in the frogfish tank. I'm considering ordering some saltwater ghost shrimp, but the frogfish is so small that they may be too large for him. I may have to just acclimate a population of freshwater guppies to salt as feeders, and get a reproducing population going for now.

I made a rigid tube + flex tube + fishing line feeding sitck as someone suggested, instead of using the blunt end of a bamboo skewer stick split down the middle as I did with prior fish, (sortof like a tiny wooden clothes-pin end for the tail of the food item). I'll keep trying to get him to eat thawed. I have some haddock and uncooked shrimp that I cut very small strips from. I even tried alittle selcon on the haddock but he still didn't bite. He doesn't get exciterd or try to lure the food on the feeding stick. He does go into active hunting mode for live guppies. This is only day 2 though, so hopefully he'll try thawed sooner or later. I make try a piece of haddock with some of the skin on it tomorrow, and perhaps pick up some frozen krill and if I can find silversides small enough.

I'm still not certain how much to feed frogfish. I don't want him to stop eating and/or damage himself. I'm going to try to stick by the 1/2 length of his body every 3 days system for now since he is quite young.

I hope this works out. Fingers crossed and maintenance determined.

kpk · #**152** 04/12/2006, 11:59 PM

Good luck with your new son, lol. I have a striated angler and just got him on frozen about a week after I got him just by dangling some krill in front of him. He seems to love it.'

Once again, good luck. They sure are some neat fish...

Mr. Ugly · #**153** 04/13/2006, 05:32 PM

If you're using the tubing with fishing line method, you can skewer the live food on the line. That way you train your frog to associate the feeding stick with food.

Live fish and shrimp really get their interest. Pretty soon your frog will get all excited every time he sees you get the stick ready.

reefD · #**154** 04/13/2006, 10:06 PM

certainly! mine goes for the feeding stick like a " mad" killer! very trainable to make the connection that the stick means food.!

elvn · #**155** 04/14/2006, 11:06 PM

I don't know that a guppy would stay on a straight fishing line, but I will try it. I've skewered thawed food and even that sometimes works it way down the line while I'm wiggling it. I would be afraid to tie a knot at the end since I've had trouble with frogfish having only one gear -- forward gulping up the feeding stick if it doesnt get an untethered swallow so to speak.

Two days ago I had no success with the two guppies I dropped into his 20g tank. They eventually succumbed to salinity shock, but this took quite awhile especially considering that I have not acclimated them to salt water yet. They would swim fine for quite some time, then eventually start a cycle of being stunned briefly after which they'd start swimming again. The frogfish failed to nab them for several reasons:

- there is just too much room in the 20g high tank considering my frogfish is only about the size of a quarter.
- the guppies seem drawn to their reflection in the side glass and surface.
- the guppies also seem freaked out enough by the salinity and new environement that they don't seem to have time to casually take interest in my frogfish's lure.

Yesterday I nudged my frogfish into a small specimen tray and dropped a guppie into the tray with him. It didn't take long for him to nab it. It really wasn't a bother at all, and the frogfish didn't really seem to mind after he saw the guppie added.

I'll try skewering a live guppie in a few days when hes due to be fed again. This might be easier than using the tray even for live feedings.

I wouldn't mind buying him live saltwater ghost shrimp or damsels to feed him in the future but I think he is much too small at this stage.

Mr. Ugly · #**156** 04/15/2006, 01:55 AM

They do stay on the straight fishing line. You can put a kink or crease in the line to help, but I've not found that to be necessary.

kpk · #**157** 04/15/2006, 10:02 AM

Elvn you may need to get something more like 20-30lb test line. I have used that and it works. The lower test is too "flimsy" and won't hold the fist on...

zemuron114 · #**158** 04/17/2006, 09:22 PM

Does anyone know if the Antennatus tuberosus frogs are rare? There is a mated pair available that i want to get that are bright red. Really cool...

reefD · #**159** 04/18/2006, 12:22 AM

when using a stick you have to have another so you can creat a cross with both so in case the fish gulps up the stick you can clear him away with the crossing stick by swiping it down. did that make sense?

Mr. Ugly · #**160** 04/18/2006, 01:35 AM

Zemuron,

The tuberosus isn't seen as often on the mainland as the other frogs. My LFS did have some in last year. For a really decent price too. But his fish prices are uncommonly low to begin with.

elvn · #**161** 04/18/2006, 04:03 PM

I managed to feed my frogfish a live guppie skewered on the fishing line. It worked flawlessly. Thanks for the help on that everyone.

The second stick in reserve is not a bad idea as insurance. Thanks reefD.

I was looking at some sites and now I'm not 100% certain that my frogfish is a warty frogfish. Its really hard to ID since he is only the size of a quarter, and he is jet black (boy is he black!) so skin markings aren't obvious. He may very well be a wartskin but I won't be sure until he gets bigger. His esca is so small its hard to ID him by that either.

I'm hoping he's not a commerson :-b

Mr. Ugly · #**162** 04/19/2006, 02:31 PM

Congrats on the fishing line trick

Occasionally you might have to give the line a tug to get it out of the frog's mouth. Pretty funny to see them going for a short ride around the tank on the end of the line

elvn · #**163** 04/20/2006, 01:08 AM

Yeah I took my frogfish on a fishing line ride twice tonight. He seemed to have a hard time eating the thawed food. He'd gulp it into his mouth but wouldn't take it off the line. When I would try to free the food from the line by retracting the line, the frogfish would eventually just spit it up. I found this odd since I could very easily pull the food item off the line myself with no resistance.

After taking a few breaks between attempts, I finally gave him a live guppy on the line. He still had a hard time getting it off the line, but on this final attempt I fought the urge to pull the line away. He ended up staying still after the first bite for a few seconds, then finally took another snap and sortof tugged and turned his head sideways to pull the fish off the line.

I didn't like stressing the frogfish by pulling him on the line, and making him spit up food he was trying to swallow. I especially was concerned since I'm still trying to train him to enjoy eating thawed food off the feeding stick sometimes.

The lesson I learned is that I should just let him swallow the food in his own time, and resist the urge to help the food off the line by tugging the stick after he swallows the food. It seems that he will eventually follow up with a thrash maneuver if the food isn't being tugged out of his mouth, which allows him to swallow the food freely.

BTW I've noticed some spots on his skin if I look close enough. I'm pretty sure that hes a painted frogfish (antennarius pictus).

Mr. Ugly · #**164** 04/20/2006, 11:09 AM

Ok, just a quick post here with a url:

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...shspawning.flv

Vid from last night.

uberfugu · #**165** 04/20/2006, 11:21 AM

Awesome Mr Ugly!

Put me in line for some young'ns

Reefcherie · #**166** 04/20/2006, 11:23 AM

SO cool that you got to witness the happy event and better yet that you could film it!!

Congrats!

flyhigh123 · #**167** 04/20/2006, 01:08 PM

was that sack in the end the egg sack??

Mr. Ugly · #**168** 04/20/2006, 02:30 PM

Uber, definately. I'm hoping that I can give the majority of them to you for help with raising!

Cheri, very cool indeed. I was lucky to notice them acting strangely last night. At first I thought that it was a fight for territory. I saw the smaller one head butting the other. I figured that I would have to separate them.

They both were doing a periodic vibrating and shaking, which I mistook for some kind of threat display. I looked more closely and saw that the vent on the female was distended with a barely visible egg sack protruding. (You can see this at the start of the clip, and a few times when the fish is facing the right way.)

When I realized they were about to spawn, I looked all over for a digicam or vidcam that didn't have dead batteries. Finally plugged the vidcam into an ac adapter and was able to record about 15 minutes of video. The clip is the last ~3 min.

Flyhigh, yep that was the egg raft at the end.

Anyway, the 2 frogs were in a Minibow 7. Just got the tank set up this weekend. It had been running as a nano with sand, live rock, and misc coral. I vacuumed out the sand and took out everything else, leaving just half the LR.

I replaced the Aquaclear 500 with a Penguin 170 for lower flow. I don't have a skimmer on the tank, but I swap out a gallon or two of water each day to my 72 bowfront reef.

I put the 2 froggies in there, but they spent most of their time hiding under the rocks. They came out last night and were all over the tank and under and around the rocks doing the spawning thing. After they were done, they both went back under the rocks to hide.

bigfruits · #**169** 04/21/2006, 05:27 PM

ive been trying to find a frogfish locally and am not having very good luck. do you know of good online sellers that might have them stock?

elvn · #**170** 04/21/2006, 07:08 PM

I don't recommend shipping them. Its too easy for them to ingest air while being tumbled around in the packaging imo. Most vendors have air in the bag which flops around in transit.

foob · #**171** 04/21/2006, 07:57 PM

Elvn, don't local fish stores get them shipped in bags with air too? Can't say there's a risk with 2 week guarantee like from liveaquaria.

elvn · #**172** 04/22/2006, 05:49 AM

I'd rather let the lfs risk the air injestion in a species so susceptible personally.

Mr. Ugly · #**173** 04/22/2006, 08:35 AM

Talk to your LFS about ordering for you? That's how I get mine.

Mr. Ugly · #**174** 04/22/2006, 08:42 AM

I thought the 2 week guarantee doesn't really mean that the fish won't die. It just means that the vendor will commit to keeping the customer happy on the part about not losing money after the fish dies anyway.

One thing to watch for if shipping frogs is that they can get abrasions on their chin from rubbing on the shipping bag. Those can get infected and cause your frog to die.

Mr. Ugly · #**175** 04/23/2006, 06:04 PM

Ok, the eggs in the video hatched. There are tiny tiny tiny clear baby frogfish swimming around the tank. Yikes!