DIY kalk reactor idea.

[douggiestyle]

Originally posted by TXKev
I don't have a RO/Di feed, so I am not familiar with how that would work. I am planning on just hooking up a float switch with a small pump in a Holding tank to top off with. I may try the phosband reactor down the road to see how it works.

Thanks,
Kevin

then you will be fine.

[fishytoo123]

Once it is made public domain getting a patent will never be enforceable. As far as enforcement of a patent. If your small find someone who can afford litigation. Or get a investor. Don't worry about the big guys, they pay up too when they screw up. That is why we have a patent office. It doesn't matter what size the company is, it just matters how well the patent is written. Even if there is similarity it is still enforceable.

Originally posted by JustOneMoreTank
As far as patenting this and trying to market this as the next big thing... hmmm... I just dont think so. I am busy enough as it is with my work. My wife works for a big type corporation doing Medical Product Development. She has several patents (not bragging it is not difficult to do) and the company gets the patents. She has a set number she is expected to file every year or quarter or whatever. She tells me that big companies do a pretty good job at just "taking" individuals patents all the time. They just find a work around or like a slight difference in the design or idea and work off that. Even if it is the same the little fish cannot sue or go after the really big fish due to legal bills.
I am not interested in marketing this because it would be very timeconsuming and not my bag. I have several friends who run them and I am not the one who came up with it to tell you the truth. I just saw that it worked and I wanted to share with everyone else. Kinda like I wanted to share in the thread I started about drilling holes in glass tanks for bulkheads in the DIY forum. It worked well for me and I wanted to share and help others on the board out. That is all... nothing more nothing less.

[minireefer03]

I built a kalk reactor out of a r/o canister the other day and put it inline with my ro topoff feed and it works awesome.I used a 1/2"pvc pipe on the iside to feed into the bottom of the canister.I put a cap on the end and drilled 4 tiny holes in the cap so the water would spray into the kalk to mix it a little when flowing.Works like a champ!!!I was having problems keeping my ph up(due to calcium reactor co2)but now it is back up to 8.2 from 7.9 before adding it.

[waverz]

Originally posted by minireefer03
I built a kalk reactor out of a r/o canister the other day and put it inline with my ro topoff feed and it works awesome.I used a 1/2"pvc pipe on the iside to feed into the bottom of the canister.I put a cap on the end and drilled 4 tiny holes in the cap so the water would spray into the kalk to mix it a little when flowing.Works like a champ!!!I was having problems keeping my ph up(due to calcium reactor co2)but now it is back up to 8.2 from 7.9 before adding it.

I was gonna use 1/2" pvc for my down tube as well, i ended up using 1/4 tubing just cause it was easier.

[UH_OH_5_OH]

minireefer.....PICTURES...PICTURES !! !

[BenjieC]

Originally posted by waverz
I was gonna use 1/2" pvc for my down tube as well, i ended up using 1/4 tubing just cause it was easier.

I would like to use 1/4" but I can't find it. Where did you get your 1/4" at?

[minireefer03]

There are a few pics in my gallery.Not sure how much You can get out of them.I threaded the hole on the inside and screwed a 1/2 pvc adapter,ran 1/2 pvc to the bottom of the canister and put a cap on the end then drilled 4-5 tiny holes in the bottm sides of the cap to "spray"the incoming water into the calk in the bottom to mix it a little.

[Malifluous]

why not just run airpump airline hose to the bottom of the kalk powder. This would eliminate any water pumps from getting destroyed by the kalk. U could have it with just very small bubbles mixxing the kalk.

[trueperc]

I to am curious about using an airpump.

[mstewart]

Originally posted by Malifluous
why not just run airpump airline hose to the bottom of the kalk powder. This would eliminate any water pumps from getting destroyed by the kalk. U could have it with just very small bubbles mixxing the kalk.

Unless you are pumping in gas that does not contain CO2 then you are creating the same situation as mixing in an open container. See Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley's comparisons of aerated and unaerated limewater containers.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

CO2 in the air causes CaCO3 precipitation and a decrease in available ionized Ca++.

This is a very interesting thread. I too experimented recently with a DIY Kalkreactor. I used a 2.5 gallon carboy (about a 10 inch diameter bottom) with an aqualifter to move topoff into the bottom to "stir" the Kalk and an exit at the top of this airtight container. I really was counting on the large surface area and the slight movement to maintain a saturated solution. Unfortunately, after 1 month and several Kalk refills, I never achieved a conductivity of output greater than 1.5 mS (should be closer to 10mS). I have now gone to the "garbage can" method of storing Kalkwasser for topoff and I get a consistent 6mS conductivity. I'm sure I could purchase a magnetic stirrer to force my DIY carboy method to stir, but I don't think it is worth the additional expense even at used prices.

[Malifluous]

I realized the Co2 problem about 1 hour after posting . I wanted to see if anyone else viewed it as a problem as well, Honestly. I looked up Co2 in average air = 0.03% is CO2. Is this significant to cause a lot of carbonate precipitation? I guess so........
Using an airpump woul be great. Perhaps there is some substrate we could filter the air thru to remove CO2.

[rdmpe]

This is a great thread...

I've been having a problem with my PH getting a little low at night, so want to dose kalk at night to keep ph up. However, I don't want to run it off my ATO.

What about just using a small dosing pump or aqualifter type pump to pump salt water from the sump, through the reactor and back out the sump??? What problems might that cause?

[BrokeColoReefer]

You cant mix kalkwasser with salt water. It needs to be mixed with fresh RO.

[rdmpe]

Yeah, I just was told that in the chemestrey forum too So much for that idea. So I have to run it off my ro/di or from a resevoir of ro/di. I don't like the idea of running it from my ro/di under pressure since any problem with the water control such as a stuck valve could fry my tank...

[BrokeColoReefer]

What i did was drip it like my calcium reactor. All gravity fed. I have a large enough tank that i get evaporation fast enough that this works for me.

[Blazer88]

Here is my DIY Kalk reactor. I used a filter housing just as JustOneMoreTank did. You can purchase them on ebay for like under $30 shipped. I was quite surprised at how large it actually is, they aren't real small. Any ways, I used a piece of 3/4" PVC for the center pipe and hammered a coupler onto the lid so everything would glue together (the piece that I hammered is, well, pressure fit). My ATO is already setup with 1/4" tubing so I used barb fittings to fit the 3/4" holes in the lid and will install it inline. I'll have it up and running as soon as my current top-off tank w/kalk runs out. Here are the pics:

[BenjieC]

I would use JG fittings if I were you. It just makes taking it apart a whole lot easier. Just my .02

[JustOneMoreTank]

Great job Blazer88 and nice pictures.
Glad that I could help minireefer03. Now get out that camera.
This is what is great about ReefCentral... us all helping each other. This unit really does work well either gravity fed or with your existing RO/DI top off to get the Kalk into the tank to increase the pH, Calcium and Alkalinity.

[UH_OH_5_OH]

What are JG fittings....?

[BenjieC]

Originally posted by UH_OH_5_OH
What are JG fittings....?

http://www.johnguest.com/ They do need to be use with rigid tubing. Like RO tubing.

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by mstewart


This is a very interesting thread. I too experimented recently with a DIY Kalkreactor. I used a 2.5 gallon carboy (about a 10 inch diameter bottom) with an aqualifter to move topoff into the bottom to "stir" the Kalk and an exit at the top of this airtight container. I really was counting on the large surface area and the slight movement to maintain a saturated solution. Unfortunately, after 1 month and several Kalk refills, I never achieved a conductivity of output greater than 1.5 mS (should be closer to 10mS). I have now gone to the "garbage can" method of storing Kalkwasser for topoff and I get a consistent 6mS conductivity. I'm sure I could purchase a magnetic stirrer to force my DIY carboy method to stir, but I don't think it is worth the additional expense even at used prices.

Don't you think 10" dia is way to wide to work good in this manner?

Isn't the depth of your powder (and flow rate) going to detremine how saturated your water becomes?

If it is all about the depth of powder, then how deep is the minimum depth you want to keep? for a average water flow of 1 gpd.

It seem that a clear canister would be the way to go so you can monitor the depth.

[mstewart]

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
Don't you think 10" dia is way to wide to work good in this manner?

Isn't the depth of your powder (and flow rate) going to detremine how saturated your water becomes?

If it is all about the depth of powder, then how deep is the minimum depth you want to keep? for a average water flow of 1 gpd.

It seem that a clear canister would be the way to go so you can monitor the depth.

It's really all about surface area of powder exposed to liquid. The classic Nielson reactor accmplishes this by mixing and exposing all the tiny powder granules to water through intermittent mixing. I was trying to avoid the aggressive mixing part and was hoping that a large flat area of Kalk exposed to the overlying water would make up for the minimal mixing from water coming in through my 1/4" tubing. I was able to see my powder level covering at about a 1/2 inch deep level through the plastic container.

But, as you can see from my posting, this was a failed experiment. (OTOH the container and fittings only cost about $15 used, so it was a cheap experiment)

Folks here are saying that they do get adequate mixing by moving their R/O water upwards through a narrow column of Kalk powder and this is what spurred me on to try something that didn't require the expense of an acrylic cylinder. I wish that more of us could measure the conductivity of their output so that we can really compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges with these different devices.

[rdmpe]

How does the conductivity measurement correlate to PH measurement when trying to determine the level of saturation?

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by mstewart
It's really all about surface area of powder exposed to liquid. The classic Nielson reactor accmplishes this by mixing and exposing all the tiny powder granules to water through intermittent mixing. I was trying to avoid the aggressive mixing part and was hoping that a large flat area of Kalk exposed to the overlying water would make up for the minimal mixing from water coming in through my 1/4" tubing. I was able to see my powder level covering at about a 1/2 inch deep level through the plastic container.

But, as you can see from my posting, this was a failed experiment. (OTOH the container and fittings only cost about $15 used, so it was a cheap experiment)

Folks here are saying that they do get adequate mixing by moving their R/O water upwards through a narrow column of Kalk powder and this is what spurred me on to try something that didn't require the expense of an acrylic cylinder. I wish that more of us could measure the conductivity of their output so that we can really compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges with these different devices.

It is about the surface area exposed true. but your had no water movement so exposer was limited. this way its about exposer to the MOVING/new water. That why yours did not work that well. This is why a narow tube may work good for preculating.

I think the depth & flow rate is going to to be the key to proper Interface of water and kalk. To get max saturation.

[mstewart]

Originally posted by rdmpe
How does the conductivity measurement correlate to PH measurement when trying to determine the level of saturation?

I'm no chemist but I can quote a very helpful one:

Two techniques that are largely unaffected by the presence of solids are pH and conductivity. Of the two, pH is much less useful because the change in pH that comes from a small change in potency is hard to properly quantify. Nevertheless, aquarists can monitor the pH of limewater to see if it still retains most of its potency. Instead of comparing to an absolute number, aquarists should compare the pH of the limewater in question to limewater that is known to be saturated (for example, two teaspoons dissolved in a cup of pure fresh water). While exactly how much the pH drops with a drop in potency is complicated due to the presence of CaOH+, as a rough guide a drop of 0.3 pH units is equivalent to a drop of a factor of two in hydroxide concentration (that is, a drop of a factor of two in potency).

from: "The Degradation of Limewater in Air", Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Conductivity is perhaps the easiest way to monitor the potency of limewater, with a conductivity of about 10.3 mS/cm detected in saturated solutions at 25ºC. Figure 3 shows the potency over time of limewater in an aerated 1-gallon container. Clearly, the potency drops rapidly due to the formation of nonconductive calcium carbonate precipitate.

from:"What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime", Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...f/index.php#11