my house reef (211 g.)

[h20cooled]

I've been dosing now for 2 weeks and I haven't seen any RTN/STN issues with my corals.

What I have notices so far is algae starting to disappear in the tank the the macro has just about disappeared also. I have noticed that 1 of my montis that the body had turned brown on has went back to a nice purple.

[tangblack]

I highly think it is unlikely that reef booster will cause rtn. Its mainly amino acids, fatty acids etc.
I have been using it for 12 months and never had any rtn.

[robthorn]

just wondering if everyone using the prodibio is holding the empty vial in front of a powerhead inside the tank to get everything out of them. especially the reef booster since the selco inside gets stuck to the glass pretty well. I know there's alot left in there because it clouds the tank pretty good when I do it.
about the rtn I have not experienced anything yet. I do have high phosphates from the original owner of my tank and I just haven't been able to get rid of them yet. I also have a 125 but when I started dosing I used 1 of all 3 products then 1 week later I added 1 more bioptim then the next week I dosed 1 digest 2 bioptim and 1 reef booster. so far so good.

[melev]

I plan to open the vials at each end, to get all the solution out of them. As always, I'll pour it into a cup of water, and stir, then add it to the tank.

[mikeatjac]

I will be dosing the same way as robthorn. I have CV ordered and will order AAHC today. This my second week on prodibio.

I do have some questions.

I run a calcium Reactor so my PH does run lower than I like. In the past I had adjusted the CR so the output did not meet my tanks needs and then 3 times a week I would use the Slurry method to add Kalk. This helped with the PH. I am adding a second canister to my CR this weekend to see if that helps raise my PH. Since Slurry and Drip methods are not preferred here, what is the "balling" method of adding calcium?

I understand the thought on Ozone, but does the bacteria stay in the water column all the time? Robsreef said it was ok to turn your ozone back on after 3 days from dosing. This makes sense to me. Your thoughts.

Thanks
Mike

[robthorn]

hey marc I too open both ends on the 2 products you can do that too but you will see when you start dosing that the glass stays the same color as the product inside. this means you are leaving product inside. I do take a cup of water from the tank for each seperate vial and mix each seperately. but when you hold the vial in front of a powerhead/tunze stream in my case and spin it to get it from all angles the vial will turn a transparent yellow and then you will see how much you would be missing if you didn't do this. the selco concentrate not the so called selcon concentrate is very thick and sticky and I would guess you might get 25% more product doing this. just a thought I am sure someone else will chime in after doing this themselves. when are you supposed to start your dosing?

[melev]

I'm about ready actually. I did a 55g water change last night, so I'm pretty much as prepared as I can get. I just need to update my spread sheet with the correct dates, so that it accurately matches the dosing schedule.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by robthorn
just wondering if everyone using the prodibio is holding the empty vial in front of a powerhead inside the tank to get everything out of them. especially the reef booster since the selco inside gets stuck to the glass pretty well..

I just use a 10 ml syringe to flush the Booster vial into a cup of tank water.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by mikeatjac
I will be dosing the same way as robthorn. I have CV ordered and will order AAHC today. This my second week on prodibio.

I do have some questions.

I run a calcium Reactor so my PH does run lower than I like. In the past I had adjusted the CR so the output did not meet my tanks needs and then 3 times a week I would use the Slurry method to add Kalk. This helped with the PH. I am adding a second canister to my CR this weekend to see if that helps raise my PH. Since Slurry and Drip methods are not preferred here, what is the "balling" method of adding calcium?

I understand the thought on Ozone, but does the bacteria stay in the water column all the time? Robsreef said it was ok to turn your ozone back on after 3 days from dosing. This makes sense to me. Your thoughts.

Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike

As far as I can tell the balling method is the same as described by Randy here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Do you have much in the way of aragonite to buffer the water? My CA reactor is on 24/7 and the range I get is 8.1 - 8.27 each. I do trickle the effluent over arm media - the module on the right of the attached pic.



Re Ozone - I think its a question of trial and error - most bacterial guilds will attach to a subtrate - but as I understand it corals consum bacs for food so some free floatings bacteria will be helpful. Thats one of the purposes of shaking the zeolites daily in the Zeo basic 4 method. I have used UV for a few days when I susspected STN and saw no damage as a result- I guess thats the beauty of reinocculating ballanced bacterial guilds every couple of weeks. Can you leave Ozone off untill you have a specific issue when it could help?

Cheers

Simon

[mesocosm]

Originally posted by mikeatjac
... I understand the thought on Ozone, but does the bacteria stay in the water column all the time? ... .

Dr. Holmes-Farley has ... once again ... produced an excellent article regarding the effect(s) of ozonation on bacterial guilds in captive marine ecosystems.

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 1:
Chemistry and Biochemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

From that article ...

Bacteria and other organisms suspended in water can be killed by adequate exposure to ozone. That process is widely used to disinfect drinking water and wastewater in a variety of applications. The doses and exposures of ozone required for disinfection, however, are quite high. They are higher than are used in reef aquarium applications, where typical doses of ozone range up to about 0.3 ppm in typical contact chambers, and last for only a few seconds. Consequently, aquarists must be careful when translating disinfection literature to reef aquarium effects. ...

Does the ozone used in a typical reef aquarium application reduce bacteria? Maybe, but certainly not to the extent required for disinfection. Still, a reduction of 50% of the living bacteria could have significant effects. The above study in the trout hatchery showed that the use of ozone at several times the typical reef aquarium rate and for about five to ten times the typical contact time results in such a drop. While the data are unavailable, I expect that the bacteria in the water exiting a normal reef aquarium's ozone application are not decreased by as much as 50%.

It seem reasonable to conclude from such literature studies that most bacteria that enter the ozone reaction chamber in a typical reef aquarium application will not be killed by ozone or its byproducts. If killing bacteria in the water column is a goal, then a UV (ultraviolet) sterilizer may be more useful.

Extracted from:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#13

Is ozonation "sterilizing" the water column? Nope.

Is ozonation disrupting the behavior of the bacterial guild which is so critical to the functioning of bacterioplankton filtration configurations? Yep.


JMO

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by h20cooled

What I have notices so far is algae starting to disappear in the tank the the macro has just about disappeared also. I have noticed that 1 of my montis that the body had turned brown on has went back to a nice purple.

Great stuff Are you keeping b/a pics to post eventually?

[pangea]

Have not noticed any color changes after one week. PE is better on most Acros. Snails and crabs seems to be more active, looking for food possibliy. Pocillopora has stopped STN.

tangblack
I highly think it is unlikely that reef booster will cause rtn.

I agree.

[mikeatjac]

From the answers I am getting from above I am going to;
Ozone.
Turn off the ozone and just monitor the ORP levels. If I see a downword trend then I may just turn it back on 2 days before next dosing. My reasoning is coral my be feeding on the bacteria.
ORP stays in the 340-350 range on it's own and I don't think that is bad.

Calcium
I have 4-6" of aragonite to buffer the system. I am interested to see what the second chamber on the CR will do. I can tell you that one of the things that I know makes my corals grow faster is a higher PH than I have with out the slurry addition. Currenty at 8.02-8.1.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

[Fliger]

Does anyone else HATE opening Bioptim? Is there a reason why its not double ended like the others? Its so hard to shake it out of the ampule.

To empty the other tubes, you can just take any syringe or turkey baster and blow thru one end. Works great.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Fliger
Does anyone else HATE opening Bioptim? Is there a reason why its not double ended like the others? Its so hard to shake it out of the ampule.

To empty the other tubes, you can just take any syringe or turkey baster and blow thru one end. Works great.

Lol Yes!

How are you fiding Prodi so far?

[ScubaTC]

Originally posted by Fliger
Does anyone else HATE opening Bioptim? Is there a reason why its not double ended like the others? Its so hard to shake it out of the ampule.

To empty the other tubes, you can just take any syringe or turkey baster and blow thru one end. Works great.

I have a small cut on my finger to show how much I like opening it!

I also try to snap it so the piece being snapped off will remain as one piece, but it seem to always have a few smaller cracked pieces too.

[ScubaTC]

Originally posted by TryTheChi
Hi Scuba

Great to hear that coloration has improved - and there is more to come when you dose CV and AAHC if my experience is anything to go by Its hard to suggest alternatives to the zeo branded additives as KS dont disclose content - so one is left with pulling off something labeled amino acids from the LFS? Articles 3 and 4 in coral mag that Meso posted discuss this.

I'll try to locate a copy of the mag and read up. I saw Meso's post and was already looking forward to the articles.

As you are low nutrient already - sounds like it could be sensible to suspend Digest and Tpim until you get the food sources.

In the meantime this thread could be helpful?

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=3

Thanks for the link. I finished reading it last night and wasn't aware of the 'fish population/overfeeding practice' for low nutrient tanks. Very interesting!

Re the use of Carbon - the zeo method recomend passive use (or a portion in thier reactors) 24/7 - but the key point emphasised here is that gentle passive use is to be aimed at. Since I changed from powered CAG use to more passive use - I saw better coloration - probably because the CAG wasnt taking out the zeo elements so quickly.

I have not been in the practice of running carbon in my tank until dosing Prodibio. What carbon brand do you use? How much do you run in your 600ltr tank and what is your approximate bio-load (light, med, heavy)? I understand you just added a DSB, perhaps yesterday.

Just a question on w/c - is there any reason to change so much water each week? What salt brand you you use?

I use 50% IO and 50% Oceanic.

Well, since I just started with the weekly WC not too long ago, I am still using my rubbermaid that was used for the monthly 45gal WC. Long ago I measured incremental water volume in the container and etched a mark on the inside of the rubbermaid for every 5 gals, but the first etch mark is at 15 gals so this is what I went with for now.

Prior to end of last year, I had an excess nutrient problem that caused a spell of cyano bacteria (red slime) for almost 2 years. The root causes have been found and corrected and I have been free of fist over fist of cyano for about 4 months. Needless to say that during the 2 year bout with cyano I did large water changes often so I've become accustomed to this habit.

My plan is to get to 10% a week.

Have you any before/after pics to share?

My camera lens is not so great for macro shots where the target is in the middle or back of the tank, but I may have some interesting pics of a frag that has shown the most improvement since dosing Prodi. The change is tremendous (too me at least). I'll try to post the pixs shortly. The before pic is not very good as I was actually taking a pic of another frag and this one just happen to be in the background.

[TryTheChi]

I have not been in the practice of running carbon in my tank until dosing Prodibio. What carbon brand do you use? How much do you run in your 600ltr tank and what is your approximate bio-load (light, med, heavy)? I understand you just added a DSB, perhaps yesterday.

Zeo recommend 1ltr carbon per 1000lrs - changed every month - and they recomend thier own brand obviously - I think because it is not so adsorbant. I use 500ml Rowa Carbon in 2 of the trickle filter pods shown above. I'd say my fish load was light. I Mandarin - 2 tomato clowns - 1 purple torpedo - 1 royal gamma - plus two bubble tip anenomies fed once a week. The fish get half a cube of frozen mystis daily.

I'm going to add 4 or 5 yellow headed jaw fish soon now that the DSB is installed - should be great fun to watch them popping up and down stealing rocks from each other burrows Then - depending on how things shape up, a small shoal of something.

[TryTheChi]

Opps

[jnarowe]

How often do you change out the Rowa Carbon?

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by jnarowe
How often do you change out the Rowa Carbon?

One pod = 250mls and one is changed each fortnight on rotation - so each pod is in the system for 1 month. I'v no idea if trickling water over GAC has any downsides- but its an easy way for me to have less agressive flow, and it adds 20 or so points to the ORP readings.

[otedd]

HI IWAN,

that's really a great tank you have there !!

can you post the pic of your filteration, sump, plumbing, etc...

thank's

[carib]

I am on my 3rd month prodi. and have to say that my corals never been more colorful and healthier than now.Polyp extension 24\7,briliant colors,crystal clear water.I have to say I was slowly roasting[BBQ] MY acros before starting IWANS METHOD Also PIF,PCV,AAHS and zeoSTART2 are big part of it.I am going to thank DR.GARY[meso]for a great work he is doing and its good to see you here

[carib]

Also want to add that I saw positive results after 1.5 month,and things got better and better after.Last weak I replaced 2 cups of my old sand[top layer] Waiting for macro lens for D70 to post some pictures.

[JohnL]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=813873