If Reeftec and Tunze had a baby - Page 4

mikefish · #76 12/04/2002, 04:37 PM

The shafts are available from Pumpworld where the cal pumps are sold (see a previous post for link ).

Sanjay
I've had the same question, but not been able to get a firm answer. May end up with the submerged configuration. First person to burn one up, please post! BTW, built your calcium reactor over a year ago and have been very happy with it's performance. My best DIY.

Mike

mikefish · #77 12/04/2002, 04:39 PM

Shoot, that's not right. The shafts came from the company that was referred to for the props mackproductsrc.com. Sorry, just got out of a rough meeting.

Mike

mikefish · #78 12/04/2002, 05:09 PM

Ok, went to the calpump website. It states quite clearly that the pumps are for submerged operation only - do not run dry. Oh well, I liked the original submerged design also.
Mike

H20ENG · #79 12/04/2002, 08:19 PM

Quote:

It states quite clearly that the pumps are for submerged operation only - do not run dry. Oh well, I liked the original submerged design also.

Thats OK, you have a way better selection of motors That are non submersible.

Van, I saw on your chart that Hastelloy was ranked a "C".
We had large PVC checkvalves at the aquarium (which replaced 316SS models which literally dissolved away). The return springs in them were hastelloy and they looked as new as our titanium heat exchanger plates whenever we inspected them.
Just FYI. I would say this is an option for a shaft.
Chris

Fredfish · #80 12/04/2002, 09:02 PM

mikefish:

How did/will you attach the prop shaft to the pump shaft?

Fred.

Sanjay · #81 12/05/2002, 03:46 PM

Anyone know what the pitch is on the OCtura 1250R. ?

The diameter is 50mm (1.97") and it gives the pitch as 1.2*1.97=2.364.

So is the pitch 1.2" or 2.364". I am a little confused as to what the diameter has to do with the pitch ?

Thanks,

sanjay.

H20ENG · #82 12/05/2002, 08:18 PM

Sanjay,
I think the pitch is the ratio of the distace the prop will travel in one revolution vs the diameter.

I found this:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/marinepropcalc.html

I heard back from the jet boat guys, and they didn't have any formulas for us either. will keep trying.
Chris

ReefVan · #83 12/05/2002, 09:39 PM

Have been toying with idea of building the vertically stacked DIY Reef-thingy with a stepper motor. Lots of benefits for speed control, pulse creation, soft-start to scare the fish out and be more gradual as well. (Want to avoid that Tunze Stream thing about 50% fish kill on start-up, ref Reef Forum thread)

Alright cut to the chase, PE-1 runs at ~1740 rpm, stepper motors at 300-500 rpm, but with more torque. Do you think that witha 2" prop we can get a half decent flow out of this thing, 2" diameter pipe.

What's your feeling, and has anyone else considered this?

If so what's the motor voltage, make, model, type and rpm.

ReefVan · #84 12/05/2002, 09:52 PM

Me again, here's that interesting thread on the Tunze Stream over in the Reef Forum.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbull...hreadid=130181

Might want to take this into consideration when designing your Reef-thingy. At least Tunze was honest enough to go public with that info.

Sanjay · #85 12/05/2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by H20ENG
Sanjay,
I think the pitch is the ratio of the distace the prop will travel in one revolution vs the diameter.

I found this:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/marinepropcalc.html

I heard back from the jet boat guys, and they didn't have any formulas for us either. will keep trying.
Chris

Chris:

I can't access the site you posted.

Ok, so using your definition then the distance travelled in one revolution of the OCtura 1250R is 1.2*1.97=2.364.

I have some formulas that can be used for some quick calculations that I got from someone at work here. But I need to get the right numbers to make sure the data we are getting is meaningful.

I'll post them as soon as I have it figured out.

I like the vertical idea, and I think that we should be able to get decent flow out of it. I prefer a brushless DC motor to a stepper motor. DC motors are also quite easy to control.

sanjay.

H20ENG · #86 12/06/2002, 12:22 AM

Quote:

I can't access the site you posted.

Hmm, I went there and cut and pasted the address. let me check.
Your right, my favorites link no longer works, either.
maybe try back later.

As far as the formulas, I think I just searched Google for propeller calculations. You'll find something good out there

Chris

rcmike · #87 12/06/2002, 10:21 AM

Hmmm,

I have some peices of carbon fiber rod left over from making tail rotor pushrods for R/C helicopters. Looks like I've got a project for this weekend.

schemo · #88 12/06/2002, 03:09 PM

so has anyone figure out where to get the shaft at?

schemo

ReefVan · #89 12/06/2002, 11:37 PM

Here'a a parallel thread for those interested...

ReefVan · #90 12/06/2002, 11:39 PM

Let's try again... Duuuuhhhh

http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbull...hreadid=132829

Fredfish · #91 12/07/2002, 12:10 AM

ReefVan:
Thanks for the RPM info on the PE-1. A guy at the local hobby store told me that people sometimes use cut down airplane props as a cheaper alternative to boat props.

I don't see why a bigger prop would not work.

Sanjay:
Can you adjust the speed on any DC motor or does it need to be brushless? If so, how do you tell if a DC motor is brushless?

Thanks.

Fred.

Mustang · #92 12/07/2002, 08:38 AM

Hey guys sorry haven't been post too much to this thread I haven't really had anything to add at this point I have not tried any of the new ideas.

I do have a new one of my own
I think I can modify a Mag drive pump to do the same thing that I did on this originally. This would get us away from the rusting shafts, I don't know if it could be adapted for external use but might be able too
Does anyone know were I might get Ceramic shafts?
My idea is to get a longer shaft, attach the prop to the mag drive impeller somehow run the shaft through it. Then make a support that would hold the shaft centered? Just an idea for those of you that still might want one internal

Sanjay · #93 12/07/2002, 10:03 AM

The propblem with using impellor to hold the prop is that you cannot control the direction of the impellor rotation. That is the main reason that the impellers on the powerheads are designed without any curves. you need a pump/powerhead that will keep a fixed direction of rotation.

As for DC motors, you can control the speed of both a brushless and brush DC motor. The brushless motors are better in the long run since you do not have to replace the brushes that wear out. The motor specs will let you know if the motor is a brushless motor - so will the price :-).

I am about ready to make some prototypes, just waiting on the props.

Also, I was told the RPM on the PE-1 is 2850 RPM ? Is that 1740 RPM number the right one ? I need this data for the calculations.

Thanks

sanjay.

ReefVan · #94 12/07/2002, 10:20 AM

I found this on an old Reef Central thread, it was my original source of info. Can someone check a box and tell us?

Here's the thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...002/07/2/93473

and here's the statement...

LiquidShaneo:
If I remember right from the box, the PE-1 pump rotates at ~1740 RPM.

Shane

rcmike · #95 12/07/2002, 12:26 PM

Hey guys,

I made 2 units last night. The motor I used was a Little Giant PCL-010. I am not sure but I think they may have changed there number system. They had a 010, 020, and 025. I think it corresponds to 1, 2, and 2.5. I looked at 2 Lowe's and that is all they had. I used some carbon fiber rod I had that just barely fit over the motor shaft. I used Graupner propellers I got from Hobby-Lobby. The Graupner propellers are left rotating instead of right rotating like the Octura. Graupner looks at them from the front of the propeller when determining the rotation direction. I guess Octura looks at the back. They had brass threads in them and I screwed a bolt into them and heated it with a torch to melt the plastic around it and pulled the insert out. I used a real scientific method to get the props to fit the shaft. I simply turned the pump on and stuck the prop on it and reamed the hole out with the rod. You can't use too much force as it will bog down the pump. I then just glued it all together.

How does it work?

Awesome! At first it doesn't look like much but once you get to watching it it moves a lot of water. It doesn't push the water faster than the powerheads but it moves a lot wider area of water. This morning when I checked it there were a few corals blown over that had never moved before. Some of the SPS corals have there polyps extended more than before. 2 units work really well with 2 MJ 1200 powerheads on a wavemaker in a 110.

Michael

BigLar · #96 12/07/2002, 02:14 PM

Where can I get the acrylic for the bracket? Will Plexi for Lowes work?

melev · #97 12/07/2002, 11:31 PM

rcmike: Will you be posting a picture of your units as well?

I was thinking about the external pump idea, as I read this thread. If the pump was on a 45 degree angle, with a 45 degree pvc outlet, it might not reduce the flow too much. Matter of fact, I believe Home Depot sells angled "T" pieces where the one part is angled at 45 degrees. So the water could come in the backside, the prop would be in the center churning away, and the flow would come out the front.

This was only briefly touched upon, but motors don't always turn the rod the same direction. The Tunze has a little set of teeth that make sure it only spins one way. How have you all be able to assure it is 'blowing' and not 'sucking' water ?

rcmike · #98 12/07/2002, 11:43 PM

I will try to get a picture tomorrow after the lights come back on. They look very similar to Mustangs. Powerhead motors don't always turn the same way I don't think. That is why they are using the Little Giant pumps. Most electric motors run one direction. I think it has to do with the positioning of the magnets or something. If unmodified Little Giant pumps ran backwards I don't know how that would work since the output is on one side of the impeller instead of in the middle like a powerhead.

Jon_Hewett_85 · #99 12/07/2002, 11:48 PM

Just thought i'd add my 2 cents FWIW. I think a small mag-drive would be a better choice for a pump due to the ceramic shaft. Get one rated for about the same RPM....perhaps a mag2 or mag3. To be honest i'm not too familiar with these pumps so i cant really say. My question is how are you gettting the extention shaft to connect to the shaft on the pump. Heres an idea for a shaft stabalizer on a mag-drive. The pump housing has a little set pice to hold the end of the impeller. How about if you drilled it out to allow the shaft to pass THROUGH it...so at least part of the whole thing would be stablaized...other thought...when you guys attach the shaft to the pump what are you guys doing to the impellars? Some pics of the impellar/shaft/prop assembly by itself would be MOST helpful. Thanks guys.

rcmike · #**100** 12/08/2002, 07:03 PM

The little giant pumps are made differently. The impeller is just attached to the end of a shaft coming out of the motor. When you pry the impeller off you just have a shaft. It doesn't need to be supported on the other end. Then you just glue/press whatever you are using to extend the shaft and attach the prop to it.