JapanReef - 450 gallon In-Wall system - Page 4

NexDog · #76 05/10/2006, 12:08 AM

$344 each I believe...

jnarowe · #77 05/10/2006, 07:57 AM

plus a little shipping eh?

NexDog · #78 05/10/2006, 08:19 AM

Yea, but used to that.

jnarowe · #79 05/10/2006, 08:27 AM

I recently shipped 5 gel marine batteries to a customer in Japan... sent them through the US Mail!

I am going shrimping on the Hood Canal today...yuuuummy! Should I eat them in front of the tank?

NexDog · #80 05/12/2006, 10:00 AM

Have a major project looming - probably next month but would like some advice. I'm going to be installing a chiller which will be outside. I'm going to take the opportunity to install a remote DSB outside and have it all on teh same loop. Will only be a few feet from the sump, through the wall to the chiller or RDSB. My question is...where do I put the pump? If you use the same logic as the pump between sump and tank then the pump would be after the chiller and RDSB...except with this setup we don't have gravity to assist.

So...options:

1) SUMP > PUMP > CHILLER > RDSB > SUMP
2) SUMP > CHILLER > PUMP > RDSB > SUMP
3) SUMP > CHILLER > RDSB > PUMP > SUMP

And then with Chiller and RDSB reversed with RDSB before thevChuller:

4) SUMP > PUMP > RDSB > CHILLER > SUMP
5) SUMP > RDSB > PUMP > CHILLER > SUMP
6) SUMP > RDSB > CHILLER > PUMP > SUMP

What's the logical choice?

jeffbrig · #81 05/12/2006, 10:22 AM

The major problem I see is that the typical chiller plumbing is effectively a closed loop. The pump pushes water through the chiller, then returns to the sump or goes up to the main tank.

If you plumb in a RDSB, it's no longer a closed loop. You would need to rely on gravity to move the water back to either the sump or the main tank. That's going to be difficult unless you can elevate the RDSB sufficiently that it can have an overflow feeding back to the sump. Using two pumps is not an option, as you'd never be able to maintain the flow rates to avoid overflowing or emptying the RDSB container. Sealing the RDSB to keep the closed loop intact won't work, because I think you'll want open exchange over the RDSB.

Also, I'm not sure if the required flow rates for a chiller and RDSB are going to be the same. My chiller (1/3hp aqua logic) requires 600gph minimum. Unless you have a huge tank for your RDSB, that's going to be a ton of flow through the container.

What might make sense is to split the flow after the chiller and use some valves to adjust the flow rate. One would return straight to the sump, the other would run through the RDSB first.

maxxII · #82 05/12/2006, 12:56 PM

Best way to plumb a chiller is :

Sump ==> Pump ==> Chiller ==> Tank

This allows the coolest water to go directly to the tank where it is needed the most. Most chiller manufacturers reccomend this way.

With your remote sandbed, I would run that on a seperate channel from the sump back to the sump. Prefereably with the most raw/untreated/skimmed water from the tank.

Nick

jnarowe · #83 05/12/2006, 02:51 PM

I would split the flow before the exterior equipment.

Tank-->sump-->pump-->split to fuge and chiller--> both back to tank. Too high of a flow rate through the chiller will make it work harder I believe, and you don't really need to chill the fuge if it is outside and open to air.

NexDog · #84 05/12/2006, 10:20 PM

Thanks for all your ideas. Not sure I can do a sump > tank config because mt return pump is set (via a ball valve) to deliver the exact amount of water o my skimmer which is gravity fed by the overflows. If I throw another pump in there that is drawing water out the sump and by-passing that return pump then I would have to choke it down more and it's already choked off 50%. If the chiller pump is delivering 600gph to the tank then the return pump will only need to do 200gph and fine-tuning that will be a nightmare and adds a point of failure in tyhe system. Also I only have two return lines in the top tank flange.

I think a sump > sump config is better. I can pull water out the old skimmer section which has an unused bulkhead and return it to the prop section. So everyone is agreed that the pump goes directly after the sump and I have 2 options. First is like Jeff and Jonathan said - to split of the line coming out the chiller to the RDSB. Sump, Chiller and 50g plastic RDSB tank will be all on the same level so will I actually get flow through there with gravity assistance? With the pump pushing it I would guess so...

Nick brings up an interesting option with feeding the RDSB with one of the overflows. One sligh issue there is that my tank is probably 1/4" off left to right and one overflow does typically handle more water than the other - but this is only due to the slow flow rate of 800gph. It wasn't noticeable when I had the 1500gph pump opened up fully and with this option I'd have to open it up a bit. Still, if the RDSB overflow got clogged more flow might go down the skimmer overflow and cause it to overflow. It has an overflow into the sump so spillage isn't the worry, just the performance. Hmmmm, decisions, decisions.....

nbd13 · #85 05/12/2006, 10:49 PM

How's the regal doing?

if it is not eating for you, throw a fresh clam or mussel in there. Just split it open and drop it in.

Any healthy regal cannot resist a fresh clam

Nick

NexDog · #86 05/12/2006, 11:20 PM

The Regal is eating Nori at least. It isn't fattening up much but as long as it's eating something....I'd rather not put any shellfish in there unless it's a last resort. Be nice to train it out of such habits.

NexDog · #87 05/12/2006, 11:27 PM

My big yellow head sleeper goby has been MIA for a few days. I'm going to clean the QT and do a WC and see if I can find him. I also did my regular sand siphoning session on the reef tank yesterday and wow, pristine white sand makes so much of a difference. I really need more inhabitants that sift sand....

NexDog · #88 05/14/2006, 01:38 AM

Starting to think about dropping the RDSN idea completely. If I ever have a nitrate problem I'm thinking about getting one of those new fangled Sulfur Denitrators. Right now my nitrates are at 3ppm with 15 fish:

YT
PBT
5 Anthias
2 Clowns
Chromis
2 Gobies
2 dwarf Angels
1 Imperator

I don't do any real water changes but I estimate the 75g of new salt water goes in every 2 months which is pulled out via skimmer and raising salinity in the QT using tank water. In two feedings I feed 5 scoops of pellet and 3 pinchs of flake and 3 cubes of frozen (mysis, brine and baby brine). Plus I add a 3" square pice of nori every other day. I think I feed pretty heavy so I happy with how the tank is doing. Even when I add the current 6 fishes in QT I won't be upping the food as it looks like plenty. Would be interested to know how this compares with other people's feeding regimen.

Talking of QT, thought I'd post some info on my setup. It's a 50g glass tank:

As you can see it has various pieces of PVC for fish to hide in. Some pieces are actually longer which is important for larger fish like the Regal you can see in there. Two of the 45 degree 2" elbows has sponges stuffed into them to keep them submerged. These are sponges that would otherwise live in the main sump and help maintain the denitrifying biological filter. You can see a few pieces of LR in there that I added fronm the sump to help biologically and also so the Regal can pick at as it had alot of algae on it.

On the left are two powerheads for flow.....

Middle right we have the mag 3 powering the HOB Remora (POS) Pro...

Far right with the tube extending left is the powerhead running the 8w UV sterilser. I wanted the water drawn in from the opposite end of the UV output to maximum results of unsterilised water drawn in.

I do 20% (10g) water changes twice a week and add PH buffer with each WC. The tank gets brown quickly so wiping and scraping is done before each WC and crap is siphoned out.

I think quarantine with hypo is an art that takes some time to master but I'm happy with my system now. Lastly, my Heniochus pair. These guys are really great and always swimming side by side....

jnarowe · #89 05/14/2006, 01:53 AM

Looking good. I have a remote DSB/fuge and I really like it. I can put creatures in it that may not do well in the main display, and now that I collected grasses & pods locally it is teeming with pods! In turn that will benefit the display. The sand is a really good media for denitrification and having it remote allows periodic changing of the sand to keep it fresh. I think I may toss in a few scallops too to add interest.

NexDog · #90 05/14/2006, 02:27 AM

My fuge has just Caulerpa and it grows like a weed. Lights are on 24/7 and it's full of pods. The only reason I'd need an RDSB is for denitrification but getting the sand and plumbing might just be too much of a PITA. Think I'd rather drop $500 on a Denitrator.

tony13 · #91 05/14/2006, 06:58 AM

NexDog be careful with the Heniochus. I researched them to no end and finally found a pair of "reef safe" Heniochus D. Well after a month in a holding tank I put them in my 210 and they ate a montipora colony in 2 days and continued onto a pocillopora and Tort. I got them out and now have some fish for sale cheap. I would stick some sps in the QT tank and see what they do before you put them in the big tank. Mine were eating everything including flake, it's to bad cause they are great to watch together(except when there eating expensive sps).LOL.

NexDog · #92 05/14/2006, 08:25 AM

Wow, never heard of them eating SPS. Hopefully you were just unlucky...

tony13 · #93 05/14/2006, 09:09 AM

After the fact I was told by several people "they're butterflies, that's what they do".

jnarowe · #94 05/14/2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NexDog
My fuge has just Caulerpa and it grows like a weed. Lights are on 24/7 and it's full of pods. The only reason I'd need an RDSB is for denitrification but getting the sand and plumbing might just be too much of a PITA. Think I'd rather drop $500 on a Denitrator.

Edit: OK, I just re-read your quote and it looks like you already have a fuge...so ignore most of my rant below, but keep in mind that RDSB have been proven to be extremely effective at controlling nitrate as well as other impurities...

Or you could just buy the sulfer media and put it in your calcium reactor...

Look at it this way: Fuges are Fun! They are a separate system within a system and many rewards can be had from them besides denitrification. For instance, it's a good place to put a nuisance crab. It's a good place to allow your pod population to grow without predation. If you like animals like flame scallops, a RDSB/fuge is a great place to put them so you can feed them properly...I have a tough time feeding the scallops in my display tank because they seem to like getting under the rockwork. As you get more into your reef, the fuge provides an additional area of interest and I can stare at mine almost as long as when I stare at my tank!

maxxII · #95 05/14/2006, 01:59 PM

I run a BB tank and dont have a fuge. I handle nitrates by adding clams. Once clams are over about 3 inches in length, they will utilize nitrate to feed.

Nick

jnarowe · #96 05/14/2006, 02:24 PM

Good point Nick...I only have a couple clams right now but I will add a few more as my reef matures.

Joao Monteiro · #97 05/15/2006, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tony13
NexDog be careful with the Heniochus. I researched them to no end and finally found a pair of "reef safe" Heniochus D. Well after a month in a holding tank I put them in my 210 and they ate a montipora colony in 2 days and continued onto a pocillopora and Tort. I got them out and now have some fish for sale cheap. I would stick some sps in the QT tank and see what they do before you put them in the big tank. Mine were eating everything including flake, it's to bad cause they are great to watch together(except when there eating expensive sps).LOL.

Could they be H. Acuminatus instead of Diphreutes ? If theyÂ´re not side by side itÂ´s not that easy to distinguish them...

tony13 · #98 05/15/2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joao Monteiro
Could they be H. Acuminatus instead of Diphreutes ? If theyÂ´re not side by side itÂ´s not that easy to distinguish them...

I want to say that I chose the right ones, but anythings possible.

kiowascout · #99 05/15/2006, 03:28 PM

even though I see you have decided to scrap the RDSB idea, I was wondering how that would work for you having it outside.

Arent your winters pretty cold over there? I know when I was in Korea, it was mighty dang cold throughout the winter.

Anyway, I was thinking how that kind of temperature extreme would not be very good for maintaining the organisms that you would want to thrive in your RDSB

NexDog · #**100** 05/15/2006, 07:03 PM

Winter gets pretty cold late December through January. But the purpose of a remote DSB is to cultivate denitrifying bacteria that don't need tank temps to thrive.