New RANDY's 2 part

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

At the price of B-Ionic it is cheeper in the long run to get a clacium reactor?

For anything except a small tank, yes. Limewater is also inexpensive. I compare costs here (although the prices are a bit dated now):


How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm


I am so glad I never gave away any of the 5g bucket of Pedlow I bought. I know the guy I got it from bought it several years ago, so it should be fine, right?

Yep, it lasts forever.

[Reef55]

I emailed twopartsolution.com regarding bromide levels in the dow products. Here is their exact reply:

Mark,

We have been stockpiling calcium chloride with lot numbers predating the December 31, 2006 date on which Dow changed their manufacturing process. There has been a resurgence of a letter dating back to August of 2005 in which Dow first states its intent to change its manufacturing process that would result in an increase in bromide. However, Dow on December 15, 2005, sent out another letter entitled "Addendum to Letter of August 2005: Notification of Impurity Profile Change in Calcium Chloride Products". Item 1 from this letter states:

"The date for ending the bromide removal process, initially scheduled for December 31st of 2005, has changed to December 31, 2006.”

This letter has been linked to earlier, but buried in some of the same threads discussing the bromide issue that have posted the original August 05 letter.

We have been aware of this since starting our business and verified that all Dow we purchased had lot numbers starting with U. Lot numbers starting in U were manufactured in 2006. We have also been stockpiling as much 2006 Dow as possible in order to provide an uninterrupted supply of economical calcium chloride to our fellow reefers. This also allows us time to source an alternative source.

As a last note, we use our products in our own tanks. If we didn’t think a product was safe enough for our own use we wouldn’t sell it to others.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Andrew Duneman
Email: andrew@reefchili.com
Fax: 763.546.1720
www.twopartsolution.com

[ROR]

I finally broke down and ordered some food grade Calcium Chloride from Two Part. Probably could have found some locally but it's not worth the hassle IMO. I'd rather pay them to source the right batch numbers, plus by using a product that a large number of other RC members are using I should find out quickly if there are any problems with it. The Bromide scare must be the best thing that's ever happened to their business.

Rob

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I suspect they are happy for now.

[acm]

Randy,
Is there a way to agitate this stuff ut like protien skimming or activated carbon?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Agitate?

You mean ways to deplete bromide?

Bromide is likely converted to organic forms (many would be skimmable or carbon removable) and also taken up by micro and macroalgae, so it may be depleted, but I do not know how fast.

[rogergolf66]

Any guess as to what problems would occur if it dosn't deplete at a fast enough rate?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The potential negative impact of excessive bromide is not known for reef tanks.

[einsteins]

IF an alternative is not found by 2 part, I bet prices will be creeping up...

Just a hunch....hope I am wrong.

eins

[brandonberry]

It sounds like, from the above posts, that Dow was using some method to extract the bromide from the Calcium Chloride. Any idea what method they used to do this and if it could be done in the home? I was curious if it might be something simple like baking it in the oven or something.

[Dave & Monica]

I found another interesting link from some time ago.
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum...948&PN=0&TPN=1

and another thread with more details:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1166963

I gathered that: Scottwood Industries = Excel = Driveway Heat = Peladow, all manufactured by DOW

I just started to research using DIY CAL/ ALK and am just caught up in all of this. I have a 50lb bucket of Excel and others have been using it here locally in Denver with no issues to date. Regular water changes should help. Many of us are watching and reading....
/r Dave

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not beleive that there is any simple bromide removal process.

[Greg Hiller]

Randy, not to be a pain in the behind on the #'s, but if anyone ever does some calculations for accumulation/consumption/dilution by water changes, etc. of the bromide, I thought it might be worthwhile to nail the numbers down.

If using Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride, if you assume 78.5% calcium chloride. Since anhydrous calcium chloride is 36% calcium by weight, then Dowflake itself is 28.3% calcium. To boost a tank 100 ppm (mg/l) in calcium then requires 353 mg/l of Dowflake. Since the new Dowflake is estimated by Dow to be 7,000 ppm by weight bromide, that's 0.7% by weight bromide. 353 * 0.007 = 2.5 ppm (mg/l) bromide or about 3.7% increase assuming bromide in NSW is 67 ppm.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, that looks to be correct.

[eskymick]

I've been using a product I found locally. It's called SnoMelt and the label says it's "100% Calcium Chloride". It's in pellet form.

Is anyone familiar with this product? I've been using it for the calcium portion of 2-part and, so far, I've found no ill effects.



http://www.snomelt.com

[ArtC]

The answer you'll get in this forum is that 'Nothing is 100% anything and anybody who claims different is a liar.'

Not that SnoMelt is trying to deceive you, but for their purposes (melting snow) calling it 100% is close enough. They probably put 100% the material they buy as 'technical grade' CaCl2 in to the bottle.

For your purposes, you need to know more. And SnoMelt may use material from different manufacturers at different times - so unless you know who is providing it, you are just hoping.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Happy Reefing.

[Spuds725]

I just checked my jug of driveway heat-- no Lot numbers on it...

although I bought it early last winter (novemeber 06) so it should be ok. I also have some calcium hardness increaser plus I got from Leslies pool supply in May of 06 that I'm relatively certain is from Dow (I used if for 6 months til I found the ice melter)-- I should be set for a while... I do have a calcium reactor I need to fire up one of these days.

Thanks for the info everyone ... I'm gonna pass it along (I've been recommending driveway heat on other boards)

[stressed damsel]

I have several 50lb. bags of Dowflake , after reading this I checked the package for lot bumbers. I found several numbers on the bags but none that state "lot" Where would I find the number? I did see 11/19/04 on the bags after a real long number.

[Spuds725]

I'm guessing that you are ok... way before the changes.

[stressed damsel]

Originally posted by Spuds725
I'm guessing that you are ok... way before the changes.

Guessing is not good enough when it comes to our reefs... Plus the hardware store has pallets of it and If it is good I will buy them all... to last a lifetime.

[Spuds725]

Fine..

IMO you are ok.... way before the changes (2004 was before 2007 the last I checked)

[Mavrk]

At the beginning of this thread, I was wondering why people have not been having problems with their tanks if Dow made this change December of 2005. Now that it has been clarified that they put this off until December of 2006, it makes more sense.

[chercm]

so what is the new receipe ?

[renogaw]

Message from Dow to clear up any issues:

The process change that increased bromide levels in Dow calcium chloride products was implemented in December 2006. The first letter in the Dow lot number represents the year of manufacture. The letter "V" represents product manufactured in 2007, therefore any product with a lot number starting with "V" is product containing the higher levels of bromide impurity. Any lot number starting with a letter that precedes "V" in the alphabet, (such as "T" or "U"), would be product with the lower level of bromide impurity.

I hope this answers your question.


Regards,

Joe Althouse

The Dow Chemical Company

Calcium Chloride Products