Is this ich and how can I help him?

[Newflee]

capnskunk ,
The health of your bio filter can only be known by using it and testing levels of NH3 and N02. While media that has been kept in a sump may have beneficial bacteria populations, it will not be a healthy population IMO. Bio wheels in particular need huge oxegen turnover in order to be active. That's why they spin. You are much better off setting up a quarantine that always has a bioload so that when you need the filter it is ready. This is best accomplished by dosing the fish free quarantine with the appropriate amount of ammonia chloride and testing for filter health.
A fish put into a ammonia or nitrite rich tank will develop disease even if it were healthy.

Also as a note of caution, I have never seen a Hipo (blue)tang that was not a carrier of protazoa. Make sure you quarantine and treat it. Put it in your tank and ypou risk all existing populations.


Lee

[TerryB]

I am with Lee on this. I feel that it is better to keep a cycled quarantine tank running at all times. I think you can keep the biofilter active by just dropping a small portion of food (don't overdo and pollute the tank) a few times a week. The food will break down without being digested by fish.
I distinctly remember that thread about putting crushed garlic in the water. I think the rest of us pretty much concluded that it was a bad idea. The person that suggested it was losing fish while they did it.
Terry B

[capnskunk]

i had a qt initialy but took it down after all the fish went to the main tank. like i said the blue tang was a surprise so i wasnt ready to qt him. hes in my buddys small reef-only tank for now untill my qt is ready. i have another cheap hob filter that i could use thats not a bio-wheel. its in another tank but i can afford to take it out. wouldnt using a filter thats in use already be the same as using some of the media to seed a new filter?? if so shouldnt i be able to add a fish to the tank?

[capnskunk]

im not putting a lot of garlic in the water. i soak the food in crushed garlic and then feed it. some of the smaller pieces i feed them and they seem to like it if its small enough.

[sting310]

Hi, I am going thru an ich battle myself... I have a 70 gallon tank with about 12 pcs of live rock, cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, feather duster, and 4 firefish... well, the firefish developed ich after a week, and have had it for around a week and a half. I have been treating with Chem-marine Stop Parasites, Coral Vital and Garlic. The spots go away for a while only to re appear... the fish are fine, eating active, ect....

doesnt saltwater ich destroy the tank like
freshwater ich? I mean if freshwater ich was left be it would cover the fish and they would be gasping at the top, or lying on the bottom......

this is most confusing... I have two coralife 9w UV units that are rated to support 125 gallons each... I could hook those up, but the chem marine says not to use one when using that product.......

I have purchased a 20 gallon tank for quarantine, but I dont relish chasing 4 very fast firefish around a well decorated tank.......I need advice bad! please help!

Thanks!

[bachtor]

Reread this post or do a search here.

Your gonna have to bite the bullet on this and take the fish out and treat with hypo or copper, and leave the main tank fallow for at least 4 weeks. I did this early on in my SW career and now glad that I did. I also QT everything that goes into the main tank. (Have a Stacki damsel in the QT now).

[ignite1402]

i think it'll be good if u are able to quarintine it in another tank that is suitable for it to swim in.. also it'll be good if u do add some food that contains garlic.. it's good to prevent some diseases that causes itch...

[TerryB]

Newflee,
You requested that I notify you when my article about Beta glucan goes online. You can find it now at www.advancedaquarist.com The second installment of my HLLE series just came out in the October issue of FAMA (see September issue for part one). If you haven't already read my article about the use of nets and removing fish from the water during transfer then it is right here on reefcentral at www.ReefKeeping.com
Cheers,
Terry B

[speckled trout]

I didn't QT any of my fish and now I'm biting the bullet.

Two days ago I totally removed all the live rock from my 105 g and caught all my fish. (Many hours of lesson teaching work)

Next, I disassembled a 42 Hex. that was set up with FW. I cleaned it and set it back up with no substrate and a Magnum to filter it. I placed some of the gravel from my established "affected tank" and some filter material from a "hopefully unaffected" innverte tank inside the carbon filter(I removed the carbon). I realize that may not provide enough bacteria, so I plan on feeding my fish sparingly while I wait for my main tank to clear up(40 days?).

I plan on monitoring the water quality very closely to make sure that it doesn't become polluted. I will do water changes to alleviate any problems in deterioating water quality.

I am treating the 42 g. with copper (Sea Chem). The directions on the bottle state to treat each ten gallons with 1 ml of the solution. My LFS suggested that I could increase this quantity by 1.5 times instead of the recommended dosage for the first day. The recommended dosage is supposed to bring the levels up to .25 ppm the first day and then to repeat the same dosage the very next day which will bring the level to .5 ppm.

I also dipped my fish for 8 minutes in FW before transferring them to the QT tank.

Did I screw up by adding substrate to my filter from the affected tank? I assumed that the copper treatment would kill any that made the transition to the QT tank. Also, I left several hermits, 3 cleaner shrimp, and several snails in the affected tank. My understanding is that they aren't host to the protozoans. Is this a wrong or right assumption?

By the way, this seemed to start with the addition of a Regal Tang(Hippo Tang). It didn't have any obvious signs when I put it in the tank, but the next day it was covered with spots. Should I get rid of this host. It seems from my research that they are a potential problem fish when it comes to ick.

One last question, would it be beneficial to lower my salinity in addition to treating with copper? If so, should I do it slowly or quickly? (days versus hours??)

[clsund]

I had a similar question as speckled trout. Has there been any study about combining two treatments together? say hypo and copper or hypo and formalin?

[TerryB]

Curpamine is the best copper. However, no copper should be used in an aquarium that contains rock or substrate. You are going to have a difficult time maintaining a constant copper level in a tank that has rock or substrate. You should be testing the copper level twice a day and adjusting the dose as needed.
There simply isn't a reason to combine copper and hypo. Hyposalinity alone will cure ich without using harsh chemicals or heavy metals.
The pH tends to fall in diluted saltwater so you need to check the pH daily. Copper becomes more toxic as the pH falls. Combine the two together and the copper can kill the fish when the pH falls.
Terry B

[clsund]

Thanks for the info Terry. I know this is off topic, but what about Brook? Is hyposalinity a good cure for brook?

[ATJ]

Hyposalinity is only effective for Cryptocaryon (marine "Ich"). Low salinity was shown to be effective for Amyloodinium, however the salinity is much lower than that required to stop Cryptocaryon. Hyposalinity has not been shown to be effective for Brooklynella.

[intrudah]

Just got a hippo tang yesterday and today he got white spots on him(ick) now I started using Garlic xtreme and want to go with hyposalinity to get rid of ich on the tang the only problem I have is that got a generic hydrometer I started changing my SG in the QT tank and still working on it....
Is there any safe way to go with HypoSalinity with a generic hydrometer?

[ATJ]

Most generic hydrometers aren't very accurate. If you were able to calibrate it against a refectometer (do you know anyone with one?) at both normal specific gravity and 1.009 you'd be in better shape.

Many online stores have refectometers and they are a good tool even at normal salinity. You could probably get one shipped in a day - before you get the salinity down too far.

[intrudah]

Think I'm gonna have to get a refectometer asap, I dont know anyone that has one but I'll call my local LFS and see if they got one if not then I'll have to buy one, damn they are expensive
thanks

[DgenR8]

Check Ebay, you can get a decent one for well under $100.00, and it's a really good investment.

[capnskunk]

go to diyreef.com. 43 bucks for a refractometer. i have one from there and am very happy with it.

[r&wc]

i have a 92g reef tank full almost to the top with rock and my fish seem to have developed ich, is there anything i can do to treat them in the tank, catching them is going to be impossible, i fear using hyposalinity because i have lots of inverts, wouldnt this be fatal to them?
i also have an eel in there, it seems to be unaffected, are eels imune to parasites?

[ATJ]

Unfortunately, there are no treatments that are effective on killing Cryptocaryon but are also safe for all invertebrates. That includes hyposalinity which must be performed in a tank with fish alone.

Eels aren't immune, but the do appear to have greater resistance than other families.

[Thaxx]

I have read this whole thread, and don't recall any mention of UV sterilizers for use in prevention. Is this because there a total waste of money?

[ATJ]

Pretty much. Parasites can go from fish to substrate to fish without every passing through the steriliser.

[biker 2k]

Well for some insane reason i thought that moving and infected clown into my tank would save him as i have a cleaner shrimp, and live sand bed to destroy the case of marine ich.

well the clown is dead and now my purple tang is completely covered....

the shrimp seems to be all over the tang, and i will be adding another cleaner shrimp or two tommorow (i was going to be getting them anyway)

i feel like if i lose the fish then so be it. If i can save them then i will do what i can.

I have lowered my salinity from 1.024 to 1.019

I am not going to break it all down and take out the live rock to get these fish out.

even then by the time i get a q/t tank going i am sure it will be too late...

i guess what i really want to know is wht are the chances of weathering this storm and do i need to really start all over again to effectively remove all ich from tank?

the tang is stong and is still eating.

i also put in a small amount of tetra marine oomed which claims to be reef safe.

is there anything to treat main tank with that would be, live rock, snail,shrimp and starfish safe, i have no anenome. but there are some intersting things on my live rock that i could not categorize..

[ATJ]

As you have found out, "Ich" is very contagious and can spread to other fish within a week. Cleaner shrimp are not very effective and my do nothing at all to reduce the number of parasites on the fish. Lowering the specific gravity to 1.019 will not stop the spread of "Ich" but will be dangerous to your invertebrates, especially the sea star.

It is possible for the remaining fish to acquire an immunity to the "Ich" before it kills them. This might save all or at some of the fish. However, it is possible for them to acquire only a partial immunity which means they will still be able to host parasites but not show signs of infection. When you add any new fish, they will become infected.

There is nothing you can do to treat the fish that are currently in the tank that will not harm the invertebrates. The only practical and effective treatments for "Ich" are copper and hyposalinity (but that should not be used together). Neither of these can be used in the presence of invertebrates.

My advice would be to set up a quarantine tank large enough for ALL the fish and move them ALL from the main tank. Treat them with hyposalinity for a total of 4 weeks after the last spots leave the fish. This will result in the main tank being left without fish for around 6 weeks which will kill all the remaining parasites.

I suggest you read Marine "Ich" and Hyposalinity. It also wouldn't hurt to read the rest of this thread as many of your questions have already been answered.

[DgenR8]

biker 2k,
I wish I had something to add, but ATJ has really covered it very well.
I'm only posting to say [welcome]