my house reef (211 g.) - Page 33

robwsup · #**801** 03/15/2006, 04:35 PM

We've requested info from the RC staff for Sponsor information.

robwsup · #**802** 03/15/2006, 04:38 PM

I doubt that was it. There are 1000's of threads on RC with a Brand name in the title.

Fliger · #**803** 03/15/2006, 04:50 PM

Hey I have a quick question on Biodigest and Bioptim. As I understand it, Bioptim has elements that assist the bacteria present in Biodigest. What exactly is it? There is no info on Bioptim on the Prodibio website, I've only read that Bioptim is the SW version of Biotrace (FW). Or is it just the typical trace elements found in SW?

Also, do you add them one right after the other? Or mix them together? Or on consecutive days?

Thanks!

David

robwsup · #**804** 03/15/2006, 04:52 PM

[violation]

Posting ad copy is very cut and dry violation of RC's commercial posting rules, you should know better Rob.

Bebo77 · #**805** 03/15/2006, 04:57 PM

since this iwans thread and he is no longer using this product we should start a new tread so that iwan can continue with his new product and keep up up to date on what is happpening there..

rob thanks for the info cant wait to get the stuff...

Fliger · #**806** 03/15/2006, 05:01 PM

Thanks Rob! How about the dosage question. Same time? Consecutive days?

robwsup · #**807** 03/15/2006, 05:40 PM

Iwan's still using it, he has also just added the Night Sun.

I dose my Biodigest/Bioptim at the same time. On problem tanks (Hair/slime/bryopsis) we dose weekly. On regular tanks, we dose every 15 days.

Dosage:
1-200 gallons for one Biodigest ampoule
55 gallons for each Bioptim.

Example:
A 180 gallon aquarium would use 1 Biodigest amp, and 3 Bioptim amps.

A 55 gallon or smaller, just one of each. I use this dosage on my 24 Aquapod.

Tagareef · #**808** 03/15/2006, 05:51 PM

Hey Rob...any chance you could become a sponsor here on RC? Then we could talk about it a little more freely in the sponsor forum.

Luis

robwsup · #**809** 03/15/2006, 06:03 PM

Yeah, we've submitted our info to get the current sponsor info.

doody · #**810** 03/15/2006, 06:05 PM

C'mon RC Gods, let us have another thread.

agarza · #**811** 03/15/2006, 07:09 PM

I'm planning on re-starting (long story) my 90 gallon this May, I already have the tank, stand and most of the equipment, I'm going to go with T5's. It's going to be a mixed reef. The question is: After cycling and when the tank is stable, do you recommend dosing any/all of this products prior to adding any corals or should I wait until the tank requires it due to coral "usage"?

Or is there something to use during cycle not to speed it but to make it better?

robwsup · #**812** 03/15/2006, 07:18 PM

I wouldn't dose Reef Booster until you have corals, but the Biodigest/Bioptim combo would be suitable.

agarza · #**813** 03/15/2006, 07:28 PM

ok thanks, IÂ´ll look into it when closer to the d-day, meanwhile I'll keep learning with you guys

TryTheChi · #**814** 03/15/2006, 07:45 PM

Three pages of posts in 3 hours - thats fast

!!

Einstein - no problem sir - its worth drawing out for those to whom these things matter - for my part, do stay actively engaged whether you use or not

Its exciting stuff and I too don't want you to be disappointed with fake hype ( I'v allowed myself to be snake oiled by the MW product range so I'v been there too). That's why the before / after pics with variables described are so important, and the more the merrier IMO.

Back to the thread:

On the issue of a Prodibio specific thread - its up to Iwan as this is a thread about his tank to say if he minds people posting thier own before and after pics here (so far he has welcomed it)- but I feel we maybe a little wide of 'Iwan Method' mark if a thread were just to focus on Prodi.

The use of prodibio is just one constituent component (and quite probably can be substituted for Zeo Basic 4, Polyplab, Fauna Marine and any other probiotic approaches to nutrient control, depending on availability, cost, access to advise and support and whose aspirational tank you feel most inspired byÆ’Âº ) of the wider approach. Prodi alone wont get the results Iwan has. Yes, its a superb product IME but its is only about 20% (guestimated) of the total approach in reaching the full potential. Prodi is a simple and straightforward to use Â¡V with very little in the way of complex variables. Buy - dose - wait - dose - wait - post a pic -wow - dose -buy another frag for the fun of watching it turn arround - its that simple....but to take it further the other components are important.

It might just be worth revisiting page 18, 6 post down to refresh on the overview. Addendums to that summary are:

A) Iwan doses Zeo elements on the basis of observing coral reactions - which is a skill refined over time and with experience, which I'm just beginning to more fully appreciate being a few months down the line. However the start point is now described in ZeoGuide V 1.02.

B) Element supplementation - Nightsun is the product group here. Travis requested some info.
These are:

1. 'Life' Containing Strontium, Calcium and Molybdian
2. 'Ionic' - containing magnesium
3. 'Health' - Jod Bor Kalium plus others
4. 'Color' - containing, zinc, Iron, magnesium etc.

The manufacturer recommends 10mls per 100ltr once per week of each product, for 'normal' run sps tanks. For are mixed soft and hard tank with some NO3 PO4 then they recommend starting at 30% of the above and gradually building up. Daily dosing in a high flow area is recommended with 5 minute intervals between each bottle. Contra indications are darkening or browning of the corals (same as some zeo incidentally)

The reported major milestones for observing significant changes on the Swiss site seem to be 4 and 8 weeks, but did you see that brown coral change in Iwans tank in 2.5 week Â¡V wow! So there maybe faster results and a synergistic effect with the Â¡Â¥Iwan MethodÂ¡Â¦ compared with Â¡Â¥normalÂ¡Â¦ tanks.

Iwan currently doses @10% of this. Iv started today @ 13% (only because thatÂ¡Â¦s 1 ml rather that 0.71 ml per bottle per day)

The products contain both major and minor elements, so I will keep a close eye on the impact on the major elements.

Kalium (major element) is German for potassium, so there is an overlap between this and the zeo K Balance and PIF Â¡V again close observation will be needed to see if one or other is redundant. No tests are available to my knowledge.

As for costs - 500mls of each cost $74USD in total, which at the conservative dosing rate will last 1 year 3 months on my tank - If we use Melves as the 280g net benchmark (sorry melve

) it will last 44 weeks giving the all important $1.68 pw week number to add to the previous costings.

It seems to me that the salt mix used will be important in anticipating if more or less of these may be beneficial given the reports elsewhere on RC relating to differences in make up.

Anyway - that's what I know to date and will chip in with photos and observations as time goes on.

A brief summary of the 'Iwan Method':

1) Lighting: Take our pick between MH and T5s Â¡V but check out Iwans before after photos, B Mohrs Tank and Dannano RC TOTM May 05 before dismissing T5. With T5 full front to back and side to side is needed plus active cooling of the hood.
2) Good husbandry - all the standard practice including flow;
3) DSB or BB - take your pic. With BB there needs to be enough LR and/ or substrate in a refugium for the denitrification to occur relative to the bio load.; Also factor in buffering with all the acifdification from probiotic ativity.
4) Probiotic nutrient control;
5) Prodibio, Zeo and DT food;
6) Trace element supplementation by zeo and nightsun

Its my feeling that it isnÂ¡Â¦t the manufacturers that are significant but what they make and how its used Â¡V so one can be substituted for another as long as one knows the contents or enough about the mechanisms to make an adequate substitution . Me - I'm just going to copy Iwan

Thanks again Iwan

Cheers

Simon

TryTheChi · #**815** 03/15/2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by agarza
I'm planning on re-starting (long story) my 90 gallon this May, I already have the tank, stand and most of the equipment, I'm going to go with T5's. It's going to be a mixed reef. The question is: After cycling and when the tank is stable, do you recommend dosing any/all of this products prior to adding any corals or should I wait until the tank requires it due to coral "usage"?

Or is there something to use during cycle not to speed it but to make it better?

Hi Alfronzo

Prodi recommend you cycle by adding 1 digest per 60ltrs when the LR goes in, and they say your good to start stocking slowly in a few stays. (Iv not tried it so I dont know - but your NH3 NO2 PH ALK test results will tell you) Then after 2 weeks resume the standard dosing schedule.

HTH

Simon

TryTheChi · #**816** 03/15/2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bebo77
since this iwans thread and he is no longer using this product we should start a new tread so that iwan can continue with his new product and keep up up to date on what is happpening there..

rob thanks for the info cant wait to get the stuff...

Iwan is still using Prodi - Nightsun products opperate in a different biochemical mechanism - one is not a substitute for the other.

agarza · #**817** 03/15/2006, 08:06 PM

Thanks Simon, that sounds interesting, as I said before I will sure look into it next may when re-installing my tank.

Travis · #**818** 03/15/2006, 10:24 PM

jake2045, thanks for posting the link to the Polyp Labs instructions.

Sunny, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Prodibio on your tank. You have an amazing looking tank.

The dosing recommendations are listed on Rob's site so you can figure from those how much you will need for 3 months.

Simon, thanks for clearing that up about the Nightsun line. It sounds very similar to the ZEO non-basic 4 stuff but much much cheaper.

Ok, so who is going to start importing the Nightsun products for us in the US to play with?

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the Prodibio "kit" doesn't contain the right proportion of each element? If you buy the kit you will run out of some of the elements way before you run out of the others. For example, on a 1000 liter system the 5 amps of BIO Trace will last for 1 week but the 5 amps of Digest will last for 10 weeks. Doesn't make much sense to me to package a "kit" where you will run out of one element right away and other elements will last much longer.

h20cooled · #**819** 03/15/2006, 11:19 PM

Travis, I noticed the samething of the kit. I figured it was just a kit for someone to try for a while which might work on a small tank.

tangblack · #**820** 03/15/2006, 11:49 PM

Just another point of view.

I have been dosing prodibio for 6 weeks solid and also noticed that some of my corals started to get faded colours due to the low nutrients.
When I added salifert trace elements my acropora started to get a darker rich colour.
I figure that my tank needed some trace elements which were missing.

I notice the same thing with iwans tank as since he has added some trace elements his corals are getting a much richer colour.

Also recommend you try one product first so that you can see which is working for you, otherwise if you add multiply products how do you know which is working.

Tagareef · #**821** 03/16/2006, 12:03 AM

Hi tangblack,

Instead of using Saliferts trace elements, couldn't you have increased the dosage and/or the frequency of Bioptim? The ingredients aren't the same, but similar.

Luis

einsteins · #**822** 03/16/2006, 12:39 AM

Tangleback

wouldnt Prodibio Trace work as a trace element that is ment to be used with the other products mentioned here?

Why would a person use nightsun or any other trace elements over the Prodibio trace if they are already using Biodigest, ptim and reefbooster?

just wondering?

Thanks
einsteins

iwan · #**823** 03/16/2006, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by einsteins
Tangleback

wouldnt Prodibio Trace work as a trace element that is ment to be used with the other products mentioned here?

Why would a person use nightsun or any other trace elements over the Prodibio trace if they are already using Biodigest, ptim and reefbooster?

just wondering?

Thanks
einsteins

Please do not mix up the facts!

Bioptim contains carbon sources and trace elements. However, the trace elements are designed for the needs and the consumption of the bacteria. Bioptim is a bacterium food and not trace elements for corals!
BioDigest=Bacteria.
ReefBooster is a food source for corals, clams and other filtering life forms. The product delivers amino acids, vitamins and Omega3 fatty acids.

THESE PRODUCTS FORM A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF MY SYSTEM.

I have not given any trace elements for my corals for a long time. The trace elements known to me have not any positive effects to my corals and the tissue becomes darker after a while. These were my observations.
I have enclosed new trace elements with my corals with the water change....Then a did try a new kind of trace elements!
The elements of Nightsun support my system. It's not a replacement for the Prodibio products.

Bioptim delivers trace elements for the bacteria.
Nightsun delivers trace elements for the corals.

einsteins · #**824** 03/16/2006, 03:15 AM

Iwan

I understand what you are saying...
I saw an additional product made by Prodibio called "Trace" this is what I assumed were the trace elements you spoke of for the corals and I was asking why no one was using that Prodibio Trace element product instead of using a different manufacturers trace element product. here is a link to the one I was asking about.... http://www.robsreef.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=Prod

Thanks
einsteins

tangblack · #**825** 03/16/2006, 04:06 AM

the first BIO TRACE was for both fresh and salt water .
Then it was improved by adding several ingredients .
As the ionic composition of the salt water is higher than the fresh Prodibio have created 2 new products BIO TRACE still for fresh and BIOPTIM for salt and have add more ingredients in the BIOPTIM.
You can certainly use the BIO TRACE ALSO FOR SALT WATER.
BIOPTIM is more efficient than BIOTRACE