Lighting Website Updates

[Thomas of Paris]

Using UK units, I have to light a 38"x38" square (close to a patch of 3’x3’ ?). I thought that only one lumenarc3 of 19"x19" wasn’t enough. And my question was whether it was possible or not to enlarge the 19’’ model up to 38’’ by doubling the dimensions of the plan and replace the unique bulb of 400 W by two bulbs.
If I well understand, you think that one lumenarc3 of 19’’ is enough for a patch of 3’x3’, but what about doubling the size of the reflector in an homothetic way. Is it optically correct ?

[TropTrea]

In the long range I think there might be something here however as for the technology in the present it has not advanced that far enough yet.

For Aquarium usage here are some of the present drawbacks as of today.
1. Maximium output is equivelent to a 150W MH.
2. the physicial dimensions of these bulbs are huge and best suited for large outdoor lighting aplications.
3. There cost is at least 5X that of a MH system.

Now looking into the future just look at the long way florescent bulbs have come in the last 10 years. Ten years ago the only good florescent bulbs were the standard 40 watt 4' bulbs that came in various color temps, now you have at least 4 completly unique families of florescents all available in multiple color temps. So for the induction bulbs lets wait and see what there R&D departments come up with over the next 5 to 10 years before we make any hard judgements.

Personaly having worked many years in R&D I will say that are loads of great things sitting on drawing boards and prototype labs. However when it moves to the actual point of production only a small % make it with the biggest killer being tooling costm as opposed to estimated customer demand.

An example is if you estimate it will cost $5,000,000 to launch a product and it costs $50.00 to actualy build it but calculate only 5,000 units will be sold a year it will take you 3 years to break even if you sell them at $383 each, yet if you had a market of 100,000 units a year you would break even at $67.00 per unit. Now look at what the potential customer would probabvly be willing to pay for the said item?

Dennis

Originally posted by hahnmeister


Do you see any future with the aquarium trade for induction lamps? They seem to have a much longer life than most (no electrodes in the bulb itself to wear), and outputs that rival halides...

[jerry11901]

Hello everyone. Before I used the PC from the Coralife over my reef tank ,some corals had this sparkling, light- reflecting look. They looked like some jewelry. Now I have the eight bulbs T5 setup and that effect is gone.
Is there special bulb for T5 to get the sparkling effect?

[asmodeus]

Ok I jsut got done reading this thread and my eyes are gone .... Here is my problem. I just got done swappping out my 170 to a 65 gal tank. I had dual 400's coralvue 14K ran around 10" from the water lighting the 5' tank for 8 hrs on a PFO Pulse ballast.

Now I have aqua medic dual 250's HQI with the Phoenix 14K bulb. I just put them on and man they are alot brighter. and they are the same Kelvin rating. Here is my problem I know that the hqi ballast is running at 290 w compared to normal 250's since hqi is over powering the bulb

What i have done is kept my corals where they are in the tank and applied 2-3 sheets of window screen on the top of the tank to block out the bright light so that the corals can adjust to the new lighting.

is this ok or can I swap from 400's SE 14K to 250 HQI DE 14 K with out climatizing the tank....

[TropTrea]

Not realy. What your describing is the difference from a point liility toght source (MH) and a linear light source (T5). As the with most things there are trade offs between the two types of lighting.

I can see an advantage to the T-5's as far as using multi bulbs should allow you to adjust the lighting for the highesr possible
PAR without giving up personal visual preference. Add that to the fact that t-5's have higher light output per watt than hides you have some good possibilities.

However were the downfall might be is reflector design. I know PC's realy have a problem here and I can see where cramming to many t-5 in to small of a space could create simular issues.

What I intend to do on my new system is try a combination of both t-5's and MH's. Hopefully I'll get the best out of both worlds that way.

Dennis

Originally posted by jerry11901
Hello everyone. Before I used the PC from the Coralife over my reef tank ,some corals had this sparkling, light- reflecting look. They looked like some jewelry. Now I have the eight bulbs T5 setup and that effect is gone.
Is there special bulb for T5 to get the sparkling effect?

[hahnmeister]

I wouldnt say that T5s have a higher output, as in a PAR/watt measure, just that T5s present some advantages for how they get that light into the tank. From the PAR/watt standpoint, a 3000K halide gets about 105 lumens/watt, and a T5 is around 85... not great. But as you go bluer, T5s do hold more of their output, while halides get halved, then halved again by the time they get to 20,000K. Halides have a harder time making bluer light it seems.

In the spectrums we use the bulbs, they are about even, as the PAR meter has shown. I just find the light spread from the T5s to be a little more useful... spead out and even.

Overall, the combination of the two is still the the best I have seen.

[PITSTOP]

O/T

Quick Question: for a 120 SPS display, which would you choose...

Option A: 2 x 400w XM10K with 2 x 110 VHO URi Super Actinic

Option B: 2 x 400w Ushio 14K with 2 x 110 VHO URi Super Actinic

Both option A and B using PFO HQI ballasts, Icecap 430 (for VHO's)

[PITSTOP]

Additional question: can someone direct me to info on 400w SE bulb drop-off...ex. Radiums last 6 months as a rule of thumb....how about the others?

[dc_909]

Hey Sanjay,

Could you explain PAR and PPFD to me? I show you use PPFD for halides and Grim uses PAR for T5s.

ex.
ATI B+= 311 PAR
Iwasaki 15k= 71 PPFD

How do you convert PPFD to PAR? or are they the same?

[hahnmeister]

They are different unit measures, but in the end they end up as the same number.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by PITSTOP
O/T

Quick Question: for a 120 SPS display, which would you choose...

Option A: 2 x 400w XM10K with 2 x 110 VHO URi Super Actinic

Option B: 2 x 400w Ushio 14K with 2 x 110 VHO URi Super Actinic

Both option A and B using PFO HQI ballasts, Icecap 430 (for VHO's)

Neither... Well... if I had to pick of those two, I would go with the Ushio because its a true HQI rated bulb that can be run on a 400wattHQI ballast (more output, longer life). But 400watt HQI ballasts in the US are not true HQI's either. The XM, like almost every other 400watt bulb, is made to the US spec probe-start standard which is a shorter lived bulb that should only be run on a M59 or electronic ballast, so they tend not to have the same output (HQI ballasts are really more like 500watts, driving the bulb around 430watts). Other HQI bulbs are the Ushio Nepturion 10,000K and 20,000K (except CWA models), the Aqualine 10,000K, and the AWESOME Aquaconnect 14,000K. The Helios are speculated to be HQI rated as well... but Im not sure. The Aquaconnect is the best 400wattSE/HQI IMO. Two of them alone over a 120 would be a great setup... but rather inflexible. And the problem with them is true of most 400wattHQI rated bulbs... they are hard to find here in the US, and when you can, they are expensive ($120-150 each).

At that, this is why I say neither. Quite frankly, if you are considering a 120g, then I would use 250wattDE bulbs. The US spec HQI ballasts (PFO/SLS) are true HQI spec (not a converted MV ballast like with the 400s), and the bulbs are plentyful and cheap. All of the 250wattDE bulbs are HQI rated, and there are many spectrums to chose from. For a 120g, they are plenty bright as well, esp if you are considering supplimental lighting as well. A great 250wattDE bulb can be had for $55-65, so save yourself the extra energy.

As for the supplimental lighting, skip on the VHO, and go with 4x54wattT5s. Then you can use 2x Giesemann True-Actinic03 and 2x ATI blue+ bulbs (a pair of actinics and a pair of blue bulbs). These bulbs are much brighter, and cover a fuller, more natural range (blue and purple, not just purple) of supplimentation than the VHOs. More light for the same wattage really. I have a few local reefer buddies who use this combo on their 120s now (usually the halides are XDE 10,000K, Ushio 10,000K/14,000K, pheonix 14,000K) and the coloration and growth are the best I have ever seen. THE BEST. This combo gives you ultimate flexibility with color mixing and output efficiency (a 10,000K halide has much more PAR/watt than a 20,000K or bluer 14,000K usually, and T5s seem to have a much easier time making blue light than a halide). The corals all color in with a full, rich, neon/pastel yet rich coloration that I have yet to match with any other light setup... halide, T5 alone, or MH+VHO. The bulb life is also very good... 1-2 years on the halides, 12-18 months on the blue+ bulbs, and 12 on the actinic03s, and some even stretch out the T5s to an even 2 years because they are mere supplimentation to the halides, and as long as their IR output doesnt rise, they still work.

[danjen10]

Would you all mind giving me some feedback on what you think I might best go with as my next bulbs? I have a Coralife Aqualight Pro fixture 150W.

There are 3 150W MH's DE @ 10k (made by Coralife)
There are 4 96W CF Actinics
and finally a few LEDs for night.

Would you stick with the same setup or maybe go with Ushios or XM's for the bulbs (or another). I think I will stick with 10k's for the PAR.

How about the CF's. To get more PAR, can I go with something else? What will I lose in color? (i.e. with 50/50's or 10K CF's)

Thanks ... and since this will be my 1st replacement of all the bulbs I appreciate all input / experience and ideas.

Dan

[PITSTOP]

hahnmeister - thank you for the very informative advice.

I will likely go with a combination of Ushio 14K plus URi Super Actinics - I will keep my eyes peeled for when Aquaconnects become available - they will i am sure of that - when there is a market demand the market will provide...

In the meantime, I will work on upgrading from the VHO's to 4xT5's....what retrofit do you recommend?

Ultimately a combo of Aquaconnects plus T5's in the combo you suggest will be awesome indeed.

[hahnmeister]

The Aquaconnects are available from time to time, and some just import a crate at a time on their own... but the demand also means a high price... usually $150ea.

To use 400watters with 4x54wattT5s is overkill though. 250s are plenty bright. To go for a 2x400 with 4x54wattT5 is a huge overkill.

Reefgeek sells a 4x54watt Tek retrofit. Its the normal output ballasts, waterproof endcaps, etc. If you get this, then have them upgrade the reflectors from the Teks to the Icecap SLRs (better reflectors for only a few $$ more per bulb), that would be a very nice system.

[Robert Patterso]

Sanjay or Hahnmeister,

I just ordered the 400w AC 14k from aquaristic.com, (not sure when I'll get it but I paid for it anyways). Anyways I'm between the EVC electronic ballast and PFO hqi ballast. With the EVC the ppfd is 146, the PFO hqi is 170. In your opinion(s) which way would be the better alternative.

Right now I'm using xm 400w 10k on Pfo standard ballast (tar?) and it is starting to color shift. Started a very white and now going yellow. YUK. Using the lumenarc III.

Thanks for your input. Hahn. I know you perfer 250's but I'm going to stick with the 400's. I run a open top tank with 2 120mm fans and have no heat issues.

[hahnmeister]

Well, I tend to prefer 250s for reasons which may not apply here. If you can get the Aquaconnect 14,000Ks, and you are happy with it, it is a hard bulb to beat. I would stick with a HQI ballast with it... it is a HQI rated bulb after all. your current M59 ballast most likely wont fire it though.

[Robert Patterso]

Thanks Hahn. PFO hqi it is then. I'm not going to try and fire it with the m59. That's why I was asking about the electronic vs hqi. I want what works best for the application.

[Robert Patterso]

Well bummer, aquaristic.com doesn't carry the AC bulbs anymore. They say as far as they know they're not being imported at all. They know of no one in the U.S. carrying them.

Ok so who's bulb is the next best thing?

[TropTrea]

The XM's do fire up with M-59 Ballasts. However if you look at Sanjay's charts you will see the HQI ballasts do give about 50% higher PAR values on most XM bulbs.

And yes Hahm, The 250 Watters I think are a much better deal than the 400W bulbs. If you look at the bubls on a PAR/Watt value the 250's always seem ahead of the game. In a tight situation I personaly would consider 3-250's over a pair of 400's which would save me 50W of power and possibaly give me more light to boot.

Dennis

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Well, I tend to prefer 250s for reasons which may not apply here. If you can get the Aquaconnect 14,000Ks, and you are happy with it, it is a hard bulb to beat. I would stick with a HQI ballast with it... it is a HQI rated bulb after all. your current M59 ballast most likely wont fire it though.

[TropTrea]

LKooking at Sanjay's pages it appears you would get the most PAR by switching your Metal Hides to Icecap 150W 6500K DE 1.
Then for suplemental lighting look for a pair of bulbs one @420nm, and the other @460 nm, This should give you enough bblues and Actinic lighting.

Dennis

Originally posted by danjen10
Would you all mind giving me some feedback on what you think I might best go with as my next bulbs? I have a Coralife Aqualight Pro fixture 150W.

There are 3 150W MH's DE @ 10k (made by Coralife)
There are 4 96W CF Actinics
and finally a few LEDs for night.

Would you stick with the same setup or maybe go with Ushios or XM's for the bulbs (or another). I think I will stick with 10k's for the PAR.

How about the CF's. To get more PAR, can I go with something else? What will I lose in color? (i.e. with 50/50's or 10K CF's)

Thanks ... and since this will be my 1st replacement of all the bulbs I appreciate all input / experience and ideas.

Dan

[Randall_James]

Hope maybe someone can help here:
I have a 400W SE bulb and all it says is "10K German"

Any ideas what brand this may be? I have looked all around the mogul for any other ID stuff but do not see any

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

R.J. ........ Hamilton 10K

[PITSTOP]

BLV Nepturion = Ushio 14,000K 400w SE

On the PFO HQI Ballast = ppfd 214; cct 10,026

Anyone ruinning this bulb care to post an opinion and pic?

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by E-A-G-L-E-S
R.J. ........ Hamilton 10K

Thx!

[hahnmeister]

Its alot like a 10,000K... just a slightly lower red/yellow area and slightly more purple... kinda like someone took a graph of a 10,000K and tilted it 10 degrees. Its not like the hamilton or pheonix 14,000Ks though. I would still use supplimental actinics with it, or rather, blue bulbs (what it lacks is a blue spike, not actinic) to make it look nice. using the Ushio/BLV 14,000Ks with blue+ T5s gives a very nice look though... like a 'ice-day' look. Corals love it too.

Keep in mind that that bulb is also a true HQI rated 400 watter... so you will want to use a 400wattHQI ballast with it... not an e-ballast or regular probe-start/M59.