Feeding Large Predators, Please Read

[EdKruzel]

Unleashed,
If you read more carefully, you'll notice he mentions they are SW Minnows, not fresh water.

Ed

[unleashed13]

oopsie my bad I think Im getting old lol.I missed the SW fishing part. .cant beat that then free is good lol.wanna email me some silver slides get costly feeding 5 tanks

[DrChristianTroy]

Glass shrimps are the best feeders and tank cleaners also if they stay alive.

[DrChristianTroy]

Can a colony of glass shrimps(as feeders) cause problems in the future???

[EdKruzel]

Problems? More than likely... No.

The positive factor is that they are great scavengers and will help to keep detritus and other waste to a minimum.

On the negative side, their body composition holds very little nutritious value and thus is the recommendation to "Gut Load" before feeding to your fish.
They literally are what they eat in regards to nutrients.

If you feed only live foods, it's not as big of a problem, but if you also feed prepared and attempt to keep a harem of shrimp, many fish will become spoiled and refuse the prepared offerings.

Depending on your location and LFS, attempt to purchase SW Minnows, high in Omega 3 and HUFA, and will school through the tank as they let your fish act as the natural predators they are.

Good Luck,
Ed

[speedracer02]

I purchased a juvenile Voliten Lion From my LFS. I always thought that gold fish from wall mart would be an ok diet. I was really wrong. I found an article similiar to the one posted in the beginning for the thread, and it stated the same cause of death could be linked to "fatty liver disease" I have begun to feed my lion yellow tailed damsels and ghost shrimp. I alternate each and feed every other day and no on Friday or Monday. Before i began feeding like this My lion was losing color, fins and just did not look healthy. withing two weeks of my new feeding schedule, he is looking amazing.. all fins back, colors are great, and now he shows off when he thinks that i am going to feed him. i do want do vary the diet a little more, any suggestions?

[EdKruzel]

With a juvenile (under 4'' body length) it should be fed a very small amount daily.
Skipping a day every once in awhile won't hurt, but remember to never feed more than what will produce a slight bulge in the abdomen.

Are you gut loading the Ghost Shrimp before offering them as food?

I like to feed chunks of shrimp with the shell (provides calcium) to lions and other large predators; strips of marine fish flesh are also good for the diet.

Ed

[Cosper]

Originally posted by billsreef
A good article. Worthy of being a sticky. Though I do have to wonder what Rob was thinking about when talking about feeding lions by hand

I feed mine by hand, you wont be stung as long as the fish is comfortable with you. Mine loves me.. and why shouldent he? - I hand feed him!

[EdKruzel]

An accidental stinging would be bad and is always a possibility, however there are many more reasons not to feed any predator by hand.

In the case of lions, they have a grasping row of teeth like cartilage that can tear your skin.
In that case a bacterial infection is a possibility.
Next is the contaminants that our natural oils and bacteria from our skin that may pass on to our fish.

In the case of fish with larger teeth, such as a moray species, I have witnessed a shopkeeper have two fingers skinned and sliced in a flash.

These fish don't love or appreciate us, they only recognize a food source and if your fingers get in the way, then so be it...

Be careful,
Ed

[CrazyLionfish]

Are these good? http://www.liveaquaria.com:80/produc...fm?pCatId=2191

should they be gut-loaded before feeding?

[EdKruzel]

Yes, any of the light bodied shrimp have very little nutrition and greatly benefit from being gut loaded.

I would make a mash of Cyclopeeze, nori, shredded table shrimp, DT's w/oyster and some Selcon.

Eat until full and place in the main tank.
It is a similar diet that I used on the grouper in my gallery which had vibrant coloration.

Ed

[CrazyLionfish]

I was looking at purchasing one of those awesome new acropora pieces they just put up with a 30 DAY GUARNTEE!! So I think I might get some of these shrimp as well as a snack for my 3 tanks! Will all fish eat these shrimp? (that aren't herbavores, like will wrasse eat them?)

[DeChoice]

I have a black ribbon eel in my reef 65 gal reef tank. I have had him for almost seven months and he is eating frozen silversides and krill from a feeding stick. The LFS that I purchased him from feed all of his eels feeder goldfish but I have never feed him that because I found out that fresh water feeder wasn't good for him. I want him to still hunt but I'm not sure what live fish I should introduce and how often. He seems really healthy and fairly active, any suggestions?

His tank mates include: 1 green Chromis, 1 Regal Blue Tang, 1 yellow tang, 3 Anthias, 1 Coral Beauty, 1 six line wrasse, 1 Royal Gamma, 2 Clowns

[shane 1111]

i live on the east coast. up in new England can I feed my dwarf yellow eel local crabs and shrimp?
I live in a temperate climate.

[EdKruzel]

Not a problem; I'd recommend removing any pincers from the crabs to avoid possible injuries.

Don't add too many at once because of the difference in water temps, the local diet may not be long lived.

Very healthy for the eel.

Ed

[shane 1111]

do i have to QT the crabs and shrimp. i was planing on taking the pincers
wear should I collect them at? should I be afraid of the ones near the beach?
should I start a new thread so people can find it more useful?
it could make a very good sticky

[reefD]

i think basically feeding anything not from saltwater to a sltwater breed can be bad in long run. anything fresh water and live can be gut loaded to help. the issue is nutrition. if your fish starts to eat fresh water food ...live or froozen without issues...immediately change to an ideal food source and begin tempting the fish with this.if the fish is feeding well the natural relaxed and inquisitive nature should help for the fish to at least taste the new food and thus realize its good to relieve hunger. the key is not to wait to long to challenge the new acustomed food source once accepted.

[reefD]

as far as feeding food straight from beach dont do it. in the l9ong run it will be better not to. as for a treat thats fine but you can get the same nutrition from buying fresh seafood from the market. shrimp uncooked can be just as ideal as these crabs alive. and have been cleaned of parasites

[Mad Scientist]

[ii think basically feeding anything not from saltwater to a sltwater breed can be bad in long run.

I think a big exception to this rule is mysis. Mysis really is an incredible food item that works so well for so many SW fish.

[richard snyder]

I maintain a very large FO tank for a client 750 gallon
contents for over 2 years:
20" snowflake eel
12" durgeon trigger
8" clown trigger
4" blue line trigger
10" queen angel
8" koran angel [almost totally adult stage]
30" white spotted bamboo shark w/ remora
dog faced puffer
heniochus
beautiful powder blue tang
desjardini tang
2 very large coral cats
cleaner wrasse

I feed only frozen silversides, clams, squid, mysis, krill, brine shrimp
all doing very weel

[jjcrim]

bump

[elvn]

I see other sites selling what they call saltwater feeder shrimp that call them ghost shrimp. The listings say "live and reproduce in saltwater", "best used to feed large fish since they consume alot of pods". I'm curious whether these are the same as the saltwater white shrimp sold on liveaquaria? Is the term "ghost shrimp" not specific to one type of fresh/brackish shrimp?

I was considering ordering a bunch of saltwater white shrimp from liveaquaria.com. I'd order them in the 'tiny' size for my juvenile frogfish.

I am wondering if anyone has suggestions on a tank setup to keep a supply of these SW feeder shrimp. I have a 100g rubbermaid stock tank refugium but it doesn't sound like it would be wise to keep 50 - 100 feeder shrimp in there -- an army of shrimp would wipe out the pods in the fuge I'd think. They are food for my main tank's mandarin, he wouldn't be too happy. ;-) I'm not opposed to setting up a tank just to house feeders.

Another question is -- has anyone propagated white shrimp in a refugium-style setup?

I'd prefer to feed my frogfish live sw prey but he is currently quite small. His main head/body is about the size of a quarter.

I've been feeding the frogfish small guppies after I feed the guppies some SW granule type food that I've pulverized small enough for them to eat. I haven't acclimated the guppies to saltwater yet. I nudge the frogfish into a specimen tray and drop a guppy in there for him. I'm working on feeding from airline tube feeder stick made of rigid airline with flex airline on the end.. which has a fishing line fed through it. Food is skewered on the end of the fishing line. Someone on the frogfish files thread suggested it.

Thanks for any info/suggestions, and for the info I already got from this thread.

[EdKruzel]

That's the problem with common names; it may be the same species and it may not.
Any shrimp is fine for use as they must be gut loaded. The shrimp itself is of little to no significant nutrition; the guppies are another problem all together.
While some of the proper nutrients are being passed to the frogfish (maybe) by gut loading prior to feeding, the guppy itself has a highly saturated fat count which is very bad for your fish.

As a marine species it needs food items of HUFA's or highly UNsaturated fatty acids.

Ed

[elvn]

I bought some 1/4" saltwater feeder shrimp from liveaquaria.com and put them in a 20g Long tank with an airstone andheater. I've been feeding them flake and they seem to be doing well.

I wouldn't mind ordering more of the sw feeder shrimp from liveaquaria, but if I can eventually get a population going that would be great. I'm hesitating to put them in my 100gal DSB + LR + chaeto refugium because I'm afraid they will decimate the pod population etc., but in the fuge I might actually be able to get a population going? I also have two fairly big serpent stars in the fuge that might prey on them. Anyone have any info on these thoughts?

The sw feeder shrimp are pretty neat. I've only fed a few to my frogfish so far, but I think they helped gear him up to finally eat a 1/4 of a piece of thawed krill (the head and alittle of the body) dabbed in selco. He took the thawed krill and kept it down, coughing a little cloud a selco a few times. He had been taking slices of krill off the stick prior to this, but spitting them out.

I also have a bucket of fw guppies going that are breeding. I've fed the frogfish a few of them as well, live but skewered on the feeding stick's fishing line. I haven't bothered trying to acclimate them to saltwater as they don't last long on the stick ;-)

[luv951]

I read this post with great interest as I love puffers and lions and have only recently had success in keeping them alive for more than about a year and half. I thought that I would add my pair of pennies in here so that maybe it can help someone out.

Years ago - about 1996 or so - when I first got into the hobby, I fell in love with both puffers and lionfish, and all of my tanks have included them. Problem was that, after about a year and a half or so, they would all die. It was very all of a sudden and with no signs of sickness or disease. After going through about three of each, with the same thing happening, I gave up.

I got back into the hobby, after reading about proper husbandry and care for these animals on the net. I finally figured out what had been killing my fish. The LFS had told me that feeder goldfish were the best diet, and I believed them. What a great scam - they sell me the fish, sell me the feeders, and then sell me the replacement fish a year and a half later when their feeding advice has killed my fish.

Heres what I do now. At the local super market, I buy:

1 pound of cocktail shrimp
1 pound of jumbo shrimp
1 pound of talapia filets, or cod
.5 pound of mussels
.5 pound of real crab meat
Nori - about six to seven sheets

At home, I put that into the blender in batches, with a little saltwater from the tank to get the blender mixing. I leave some of the cocktail shrimp out to be added back whole. Of course, the mussels have to be shelled (its the worst part). Once I have a nice mixture with pretty good size chunks still left, I add back the cocktail shrimp.

The mix is then placed into ziploc bags and shaped to form a sheet about 1/2 inch thick. I put it on a cookie sheet and place that into the freezer. When it comes time to feed, I break a hunk off, thaw if for a bit, and drop it in.

The fish are thriving now!!! My tangs, and damsals love it as well.

THE BEST PART - last time I did this, was in November of 2005. It cost me about $35 for all the ingredients. I am just now running out of food. So, $35 for about eight months of food!! I don't think that can be beat. I do feed just Nori about every second or third day, though.

Sorry this was so long.