Sicce pumps - Page 3

Jayson · #51 07/06/2007, 06:44 PM

Hanh send me a pm with your address and i will send you out a new shaft. Thanks

ostrow · #52 07/06/2007, 08:01 PM

Mike:

What are you getting out of yours now? I couldn't even get mine to spin and I did (I think) exactly what you did on your test.

Did you restrict your intake? To what dimension?

Just curious.

Hanh: did you manage to break the shaft on one???

hahnmeister · #53 07/06/2007, 09:07 PM

I didnt break the shaft... it came like that. When I opened the box, the impeller well on one was loose, and the two werent padded between each other. So they most likely knocked together in transport. The shaft was in two when I opened the box.

As for my mod, I used 1/2" PVC as well as 3/4"... I suppose neither one is that 'sweet spot' of 15mm that ATI uses though. Ill have to make something up unless anyone has suggestions.
It was my first crack... Im not complaining or anything. If anyone has pics/tips for how they did theirs, please LMK.

loc01 · #54 07/08/2007, 11:42 AM

Where can I get the Sicce pump, is it for USA version?

Loc

Jayson · #55 07/08/2007, 11:58 AM

The pumps are a USA version. If you look through the thread there are a couple of people on here that you can purchase them from. Thanks

hahnmeister · #56 07/08/2007, 01:57 PM

http://www.saltycritter.com/pumps/sicce-pumps.htm

foshizzle · #57 07/11/2007, 12:22 AM

Any progress on this? I am about to order one, but want to be it will perform with my mods...

hahnmeister · #58 07/11/2007, 02:20 AM

http://wisconsinreefsociety.org/foru...hp?p=1236#1236

I posted a log of my new tank here, and the latest thing is pics of my Sicce PSK 2500 mod. I dont get it. Tomorrow, I will try to hold down the enkamat with fishing line rather than zip-ties. It seems like my zip-ties are actually making contact with the back of the impeller well. I think my holes on the impeller might be closer to the center than most maybe? Otherwise, even though I am using 3 layers of PF4, maybe I have them too dense, or maybe I trimmed them too much. Only, it seems like before I did, I had it wider in diameter, and it had trouble starting. So I made the holes larger (less weight in the impeller so less starting torque needed), and trimmed the mesh a bit. Now it starts, but still... 20scfh.

Nothing I do seems to get me above this. I have tried two different Dwyer meters too... so its not just a defective or restrictive meter. I mean, sure, I would expect some restriction... but both the RMB 5-50 scfh and the RMA 10-100 scfh meters pegged the pump at 20 scfh... and thats with 3/8" waterline for a venturi. I actually need to restrict the air intake a bit or the pump can take in too much and 'pulse'.

Thats 3/4" pipe on the inlet. Not that it matters because I can run the pump w/ only the venturi in the tank and still only get 20 scfh. The airline is 3/8" waterline. The outlet is 1" PVC with and w/o an elbow facing downwards. Its 1" though, and doesnt seem to do a thing to hinder anything.

1" 90 elbow on the outlet...

Venturi is 1/2" pipe inside 3/4" pipe that feeds it. Everything is nice and contoured inside... not that it matters. Then the 3/4" fits in a 1"-3/4" bushing that fits inside the 1" slip-FPT adapter. I have mimic'd the ATI version very closely. The 1/2" pipe ID is 5/8", and the ATI is 15mm. Mine is larger by about 1mm, but I also have that 3/4" ball valve on the intake for fine tuning which really helps with controlling water flow, but not air so much it seems. The air intake is just capped at 20... so to me, that indicates that something inside the pump is the limiting factor. I mean, if I can change all these things around the pump, and see no change... what else could it be?

The outlet is a 3/4" MPT-1" slip adapter. I even bored it out to 7/8" ID with a uni-bit so there is little to no restriction there...

So, here is the meat and potatoes...

The mesh is 3 layers, PF4, zip-ties, and about 3/8" thick total. The edges were a bit larger than the disk to begin, but startup problems forced me to trim just a bit more off. Is it too thin now? Any ideas or suggestions are respected and needed. Is there something I am overlooking?

hahnmeister · #59 07/11/2007, 02:45 AM

Also, anyone have a Quiet One 3000? I think it may be the same pump. I will have to get one for sure, but it has the same impeller design, volute cover, etc. Its just the shell that is different. The pump is made by Sicce for Pentair, and has a 1" outlet rather than the 3/4" on the PSK, so it has a slightly higher gph rating than the PSK, but the same 40 watt rating. And its only $66...
http://www.pentairaquatics.com/produ...e/Q1_3000.html

foshizzle · #60 07/11/2007, 09:41 AM

Yikes. maybe I'll hold off. If the zip ties are rubbing you could add a washer under the impeller...

I noticed the similarities to the quiet ones. good pumps. Aquariumspecialty has the 3k for $40

ostrow · #61 07/11/2007, 10:16 AM

Hanh, what are the specs on that skimmer? Diameter, height, etc?

You are using this pump recirc. Have you tried it in a bucket in under 10" of water?

I had similar problems getting it to work and your mod is more careful than my test. I would note that you, as I, did not put the venturi in the same spot ATI does ... you need to drill into the gray cover just before the impeller. So part of the issue is you may have the venturi too far out.

Also, your intake is 3/4"? ATI's is 13mm.

smjtkj · #62 07/11/2007, 10:28 AM

Guys, if I can ever get some breathing room at work i will start a thread on mesh modding these pumps. The pumps are not at fault. I think it is a venturi issue rather than a mesh or zip tie. It does appear that the zips are further to the center of the disc then I do it. I don't know that it will make that much difference. ATI seems to have no problem getting good numbers. Also Mavgi is getting up to 45 LPM out of the same pump. If I can get the thread started, maybe myself and a couple of the others that know how to get performance out of pumps can help out.
Mike

RichConley · #63 07/11/2007, 11:17 AM

Mavgi is getting 45 LPM out of a 40w pump? Thats 100 scfh for 40w? Why the hell are we even screwing around with the lagunas/sequence, etc?

Hahn, I'm gonna see if I can find a QO 3000 and play around.

smjtkj · #64 07/11/2007, 11:41 AM

He is running it internally and also with no shaft. He has to get
it started with his finger when powered down. He is consistently getting 35 LPM without issues. The 45 LPM runs for a litlle while and then cavitates. Still pretty darn impressive with 35 LPM in my opinion. Ant the pump is using in the mid 20s for wattage!

RichConley · #65 07/11/2007, 11:45 AM

Thats still 70+ scfh steady.

Why are we playing around with larger pumps?

Anyone got some real good specific pictures of the venturi, intake, etc, on the BM?

foshizzle · #66 07/11/2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley

Anyone got some real good specific pictures of the venturi, intake, etc, on the BM?

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8204

looks like nothing complicated, just a tap through the volute. maybe a ball valve or some type of restriction before the volute would help?

foshizzle · #67 07/11/2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smjtkj
If I can get the thread started, maybe myself and a couple of the others that know how to get performance out of pumps can help out.
Mike

Mike,
How much air are you getting?

dudedudedude · #68 07/11/2007, 01:23 PM

I have been experimenting with a DIY sicce BM pump and the lagunas and the benefit with the laguna is that although there is more watts/airflow they dont seam to have the start up issues that the sicce pumps have. I have gotten my sicce to 50scfh, but it only does this if I cover the pump intake at first and ease the water flow in. So it is a trade off.

RichConley · #69 07/11/2007, 01:35 PM

Dude, the thing is, if the sicce can pull 50, I should be able to pull a whole lot more than 60 on my Laguna5000.

Methinks getting the air intake so close to the pump volute is having an effect.

hahnmeister · #70 07/11/2007, 01:48 PM

There are two venturis...

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...pic=51002&st=0

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8204

From the second one, the venturi inlet is listed as 15mm.

I made my venturi 5/8" ID, which is the diameter of 1/2" PVC, which is 15.875mm. Then I have the adjustable ball valve further up the line so I can match the restriction of a 13mm intake if I need to. I have tried this, and no greater intake has happened. FWIW, I played with a couple venturis (ball valve only venturis, a beckett, etc) and they came up the same. I shouldnt have to tap the threaded neck of the intake, I know that. If you look at how the venturi works, where you have the air inlet is not critical. Really, all a venturi is on a pump like this is a restrictor.... thats it. I can actually take out the 1/2" restriction part, lengthen the airline into the pump's intake, and use the ball valve to get the exact same results. A venturi on an asperating skimmer is not very technical... it does not act as a flow eductor like on a venturi that goes on an outlet of a pump. I just wanted to mimic the ATI version for kicks so the ball valve would allow me the most fine tuning ability. There is also that other version that shows that this is not important if you look at the first link. IME, the venturi is not flawed. Being that every version I have of it is giving me the exact same results, Im thinking its the pump. The recirc mounting doesnt change anything either. For those who read all my details, I am testing the pump by dropping it in the tank first as well... so back pressure due to depth doesnt change much. My back pressure should be the same, if not better than a bubblemaster actually. The pump is mounted 20" from the top of the skimmer, 10" below the waterline. This is about the same, if not better, than an ATI bubblemaster, which places the pump at the bottom of a 20-22" tall skimmer... non-recirculating. From the details, you may have read that I can actually get the pump to 'pulse' (it actually jumps up to 40-50 scfh when it does this) if I dont restrict the air intake some. So the venturi is plenty effective & free-flowing.

Oh, and why bother with a Laguna? Well, a Laguna 2400 does 120scfh, or 57lpm... at almost 3' of depth. These ATIs will choke on more than 2' of depth, if that. And they will do it for less than 90 watts.

But on the PSK here... what are you guys seeing as far as the mesh goes? is it too tight? Too thin (3/8"?), or too narrow? Its got to be something along these lines. It seems like the zip-ties are rubbing on the backside of the impeller well in my case because the plastic on the pump looks like it (I have no basis for comparison, but this might be why my pumps seems to hum a bit more than I expected). Even though I dont see ATI's being any smaller, perhaps because my holes are towards the center more...???

Just curious, can I get just the impellers from anyone? Smjtkj or Jayson? I would like to buy a couple as backup for just water pumps if nothing else.?

hahnmeister · #71 07/11/2007, 02:51 PM

One thing that might help me is if some of you who have kill-a-watts, and have done the mod right, could post the wattage and VA (I can get power factor from just that... or give me wattage and PF). Believe it or not, these help figure out the turque that your pump is using, and can clue me in to what might be wrong.

dudedudedude · #72 07/11/2007, 03:31 PM

Rich, I have found that an extremely important factor in regards to getting more air is how the water is restricted in relation to the air intake. The flow pattern that is produced with water restriction can create a greater vacuum to suck air depending on many foactors. I will post when I have come up with an optimized pump intake. I dont want to call it a venturi because it isnt what you would consider to be one in the traditional sense.

dudedudedude · #73 07/11/2007, 03:34 PM

hahn,
If you prebend the zip ties to 90 degree angles where they need to bend around the impeller holes, when you zip them they will be flush with the impeller bottom and shouldnt rub then.

Jayson · #74 07/11/2007, 06:43 PM

Hanh,
I can get 20 lpm out of mine by using a different pump intake. The one that I am getting the best results from so faris very basic. I take a piece of 1/2 acrylic cut it to fit inside the pump intake. I then use a chamfered grinding stone to grind out the taper. The smallest hole is aprox 15 millimetrs and the largest is aprox 22 millimetrrs. I also have the air intake drilled out right at the center of where the threads meet the smooth part of the housing. I am getting aprox 26 watts on my meter. The one that I did notice is when I first had it going it was noisy and I busted my shaft from having the PF4 under the nipple that holds the yellow rotor on. This caused me to only pull around 15 lpm. PM me about the new impellors.

hahnmeister · #75 07/12/2007, 02:03 AM

dudedudedude... Im trying your idea tomorrow.

Jayson... Ill try making an intake that is closer. The only thing I can think of is that the water is being too restricted by my 1/2" 'venturi' due to its length... and the longer the length... the more of a pressure drop. As far as the air goes... there is no restriction there, and as far as the pump is concerned, the air is being introduced at the exact same point. I can post a diagram to illustrate.

But there might be something to this diameter of the intake vs. length. Because of the length of mine, it may be wider, but end up being more restrictive as it is longer.

Ill have to try some more 'tricks' tomorrow.