my house reef (211 g.)

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by melev
If you can manage it, try to take the same pictures in two weeks (same camera, same settings, same lighting, same time of day...), so we can compare them and see the progress. I'm still on the fence at the moment, but am leaning heavily toward trying.

It seems like it will cost me $300 a year to dose the products, and I'm still trying to swallow that pill. Something that I'm concerned is what happens if you stop dosing too.

Marc

I'm not sure a whole tank pic will give you the before / after detail that helps evaluate progress, so I'll offer up 2 additional sets alongside the hysterix shots - that may or may not prove interesting..... The camera is a little 4MP Cannon Powershot A85 - and all I can do settings wise is turn off the flash and enable macro function - all that white ballance stuff is byond me ( and maybe the camera?).

Before /after set 1 - 'Hysterix'

Anyway heres the hysterix after a further 16 days: The 2 variables have been Zeo Start2 and K ballance @ 20% of recomended doses:

Pic 1: Start prodi:



Pic 2: +9 weeks after pic 1 (Plus Zeo CV and AAHC)



Pic 3: +16 days after Pic 2 (Plus zeo K-B and Start 2)

[TryTheChi]

Before / After Set 2: Upper right side:

The focus on these is the Monti digitas - the second pic is a wider view to include aditional frags over time.

Pic 1: 16 Jan 06:



Pic 2: 11 March 06:

[doody]

$300 a yr does'nt seem too bad. I seen a recent thread on zoe products and one guy said it was costing like $160 a month on a 150g tank. Those numbers might be wrong as I'm going off my weak memory. Melev, what size tank are you baseing this $300yr estimate.

[doody]

tangblack, nice looking tank. Got a full frontal shot?

[jnarowe]

very nice tangblack!

[robwsup]

Melev was basing that on his 280g.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by robwsup
Melev was basing that on his 280g.

...and just the Prodi 3....no zeo products in that $ estimate.

Alois - that looks superb and very clear - the full length shot is down 2.5 mtrs? Good to hear the PO4 in under control - so by dosing Digest each week rather than each 2 weeks you can take PO4 down without using Rowaphos? Did you just use digest weekly or add PTIM or Trace weekly too?

I'm still showing no PO4 (meric test) since taking the rowaphos out.

Cheers

Simon

[doody]

Useing Mark's 280 as example; how much would he be spending monthly for the whole shabang (all products needed for this method) ?

Simon, you mentioned posting a calculator somewhere, but I can't find it.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by doody
Useing Mark's 280 as example; how much would he be spending monthly for the whole shabang (all products needed for this method) ?

Simon, you mentioned posting a calculator somewhere, but I can't find it.

Doody

For 280 USG see page 27 3rd post

Calculator is Page 18 6 posts down. Costs will depend on where you buy from - PM me if you'd like links to the cheapest suppliers I'v found.

Cheers

Simon

[tangblack]

Got a full frontal shot?

I will post some this week, just waiting for my new lens so i can get a good front pic, really hard to get good full frontal pics on large tanks,

[doody]

Originally posted by TryTheChi
Hey Mark

I put up a calulator on page 18 or 19 of this thread so people could figure for themselves- but as you did such a charming post about your childhood in Switzerland and my Mum is in Basel at the moment- I'v done a little homework for you

You have 280 gal = 1120 lts - lets say 1000lts net.

The core product is Prodibiodigest - 1 amp is good for 1000lrs each fortnight - The smallest pack is 6 amps which will last you 3 months.

You will need 5 amps per 2 weeks TPIM (less if your net volume is less) = 30 amps

You will need 2-3 amps Reef Booster per week = @ 30 amps

At the price I buy for in europe this comes to 59 euros or approx 69 USD for 3 months supply. 0r $6 pw. Someone is importing these to the US now - but I dont know what he is charging.

Add to this 50mls of Zeo CV @ $55 and 50mls of zeo AAHC @ $45 from the US distributor of Zeo = $169 or $14 per week all in. This would give you the basic tools to start down this bit of the 'Iwan Method' and give it a 12 week trial.

However the US Zeo prices are way more than the european prices, +55% and +38% more respectively. These price differences do not include minus 17.5% EU sales tax discount when you export from the EU - or shipping charges.

PM me if you want details of European suppliers I use.

I should say for the zeoland viewers watching that I have no commerial interests in these products - which is easily checked - I'm just doing a favor from one hobbyist to another based on an unsolicited enquiry [End of legal note.]

Mark HTH

Cheers for now

SImon

Ok I got a little lost here, but is the bottome line here $14 a week for the whole deal on Marks tank useing the IWAN method? Sending PM for best price.

[Travis]

Originally posted by TryTheChi

Pic 2: +9 weeks after pic 1 (Plus Zeo CV and AAHC)



Pic 3: +16 days after Pic 2 (Plus zeo K-B and Start 2)

Simon, one other thing that I notice in these 2 pics is that the acro to the back and to the right of the hystix has lightened up considerably. How long has this acro been in your tank? I'm wondering if it was new and adapting to your tank or if it has been in there for a while and is adapting to reduced nutrients.

[Travis]

Originally posted by doody
$300 a yr does'nt seem too bad. I seen a recent thread on zoe products and one guy said it was costing like $160 a month on a 150g tank. Those numbers might be wrong as I'm going off my weak memory. Melev, what size tank are you baseing this $300yr estimate.

I think you may be thinking of my post in another thread. I was going to start ZEO basic 4 + CV + AAHC. The initial startup costs (including reactor) for the first 3 months would have been around $650. I figured that the monthly costs after that would be around $120-$140. However, after the first 3 months would also be when it would be necessary to start using other supps like Spur2, SpurME, Pocci-Stylo Grow, K-balance, etc. so the monthly cost would likely be higher. FWIW, my system is 275 net gallons. I got to thinking about the ongoing costs and decided that it is not welcome in my current budget so I have decided not to go through with it at this time. Fortunately, it has been over 5 weeks since I put my order in for my DIY reactor and it still isn't finished yet. So I was able to cancel my order.

I may try the Prodibio after a while, depending on what some other people's results are first. At least I would be able to fit the Prodibio and a couple ZEO products into my budget. If only I was rich, I would go with the full blown ZEO system and use every one of the products.

[Travis]

Originally posted by tangblack
Here are some updated pics.
Been dosing Prodibio products weekly. All is looking very good with po4 dropping to .02ppm
I will be dosing every two weeks soon as i have no algae in my tank and my snails are dying from lack of food.

Hi Alois, excellent looking tank.

How long have you been dosing the Prodibio products, which products are you dosing (including any non-Prodibio products) and what are the doses? What test kit/instrument are you using to test PO4 and what was the reading before you started dosing? Also, could you tell us a little more about your system such as water volume, what type of substrate (if any), and skimmer? Sorry for all the questions.

[golfschosen1]

Very Nice Colors

[golfschosen1]

Very Nice Colors

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by doody
Ok I got a little lost here, but is the bottome line here $14 a week for the whole deal on Marks tank useing the IWAN method? Sending PM for best price.

Mostly - there are other zeo items like start spur PIF KB PSG which can be used to tweak colors - but the above are the basics and IME if you get the results I did you'll be v pleased. Suggest you leave out CV and AAHC for 4 - 8 weeks just to see what prodi is doing - then gradually phase in the others - maybe at 1 month intervals.....although its tough to be patient - at least it is for me

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Travis
Simon, one other thing that I notice in these 2 pics is that the acro to the back and to the right of the hystix has lightened up considerably. How long has this acro been in your tank? I'm wondering if it was new and adapting to your tank or if it has been in there for a while and is adapting to reduced nutrients.

Hi Travis
It arrived more or less at the start of using prodi - so a bit of both I guess

If budgets are a factor - why not just start a trial with digest and TPIM. You'l definately be able to evaluate any benefits to your tank after 6 vials (doses for 12 weeks) of digest, and Rob has them I see. A 3 month trial of those 2 costs peanuts.

A phased approach is much better anyway than starting with the full monti - you can tell what product is getting which result and give the corals time to adapt. It will take 6 - 9 months to gradually phase in the full zeo method or Iwan method either way - so the $$s dont fully bite for a while.

The more experience I'm getting with Iwan approach - the more I'm appreciating the tweaks after low nutrients have been achieved, so Im stopping some of the zeo products and introducing them again over a longer time period.

Travis - can you post a pic of your tank please?

I'm really looking forward to seeing the April installment of Iwans' tank after Nightsun....

[Travis]

Hi Simon,
I am pondering on possibly trying out the prodibio. But another person has also brought to my attention the PolypLabs product, which also sounds very promising. I see that one of US retailers already stocks it and sells the complete package for $180, but I don't know for sure how long that will last. It sure is hard to make a decision with so many options out there. One thing that is for sure, is that there are several systems from other companies popping up these days that are going to give the much more expensive ZEOvit system some good competition. The ZEOvit system has proved itself. It will be interesting to see if these other new systems will be able to produce similar results at reduced costs. If I do end up trying one of these other systems I will be sure to post details and progress here. As for my full tank pic, I will try to get one up later today.

[alien9168]

Wow, your coral seems to be groing pretty fast!
Way to go!

Is that normal for sps, or do my lps just take longer?

-alien

[carib]

Simon.are you still dosing buster?Also you added K-balance,do you see any diference?I am having some algea issue,and thinking it's related with PIF.Overall my tank is doing good,PO-4 &NO-3 are under control.[phosban still out]I am on my 5th week prodi.I lost a dozen of snails and getting a gallon of skimmate[g-5 wet] a day.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by carib
Simon.are you still dosing buster?Also you added K-balance,do you see any diference?I am having some algea issue,and thinking it's related with PIF.Overall my tank is doing good,PO-4 &NO-3 are under control.[phosban still out]I am on my 5th week prodi.I lost a dozen of snails and getting a gallon of skimmate[g-5 wet] a day.

Hi Carib

Yes, still using ReefBooster weekly. The reason why I didnt mention it earlier is that it feeds corals and zoo plancton rather than works to lower organics - and as such could be left out of any evaluation of a probiotic approach to nutrient reduction IMO.

With K-B i'v found that an acro that was very washed out with no PE is regaining it purple tips and some PE even during the day - quite vividly - but I also switched salts from TM to Seachem which has a higher potassium content apparently. I dosed K - B @ 1 ml per 100ltrs for about a week and started to get the brown granular deposits on my Tunzes so stopped for a while and have started dosing 0.5ml per 100ltr 2 times per week along with PIF @ 1 drop per 100ltr- so far so good.

What sort of algae issue is it - any pics? Is the algae in areas where detritus can collect? I have one last patch (1cm x 1 cm) of hair algae in a colony of red pipe organ polips which collect detritus so could be a localised source of NO3/PO4.

Good to hear its going well - any before /after pics?

The snails could die of old age or starvation - does any green film develop on the glass? If not - it could be starvation?

A Gallon of skimmate! I'm finding my skimate is reducing in darkness and quanity - maybe this happens with time as residual organics are depleted?

Cheers

Simon

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Travis
Hi Simon,
... another person has also brought to my attention the PolypLabs product, which also sounds very promising. I see that one of US retailers already stocks it and sells the complete package for $180, but I don't know for sure how long that will last. It sure is hard to make a decision with so many options out there....

..... If I do end up trying one of these other systems I will be sure to post details and progress here. As for my full tank pic, I will try to get one up later today.

Hi Travis

The PolypLabs web site says all the right things to be classified as a probiotic method along side ZB4 and prodi - plus they seem to have the equivelent of ReefBooster and CV , AAHC in the package.

Unfortunately they do not have any aspirational pics. Zeo got going in the english speaking world with Alexander G's tank, and obviously Iwan is the inspiration here. They are asking for pictures of not so good tanks though - presumably to get some good before / after pics - which is a good sign.

For me, deciding which way to go was based on theoretical coherance - then someone else showing what can be done in practice ie Alexander or Iwan and since Iwans looks better to my eye and is cheaper -.......

Anyway Polyplabs seems a viable alternative approach in theory. They say $180 is good for 100g for 8 months - so compared with melves Q re running costs with Prodi and Zeo CV/AAHC it works out @ approx $15 pw on 280g so only a dollar pw more.

They dont have trace element supplements like Zeo or Nightsun, so the range is focused on probiotic and feeding, so costs will rise if these are included.

Would be great if you trialed it with before after pics

Cheers - and good luck with the SWOT analysis.

Simon

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by alien9168
Wow, your coral seems to be groing pretty fast!
Way to go!

Is that normal for sps, or do my lps just take longer?

-alien

Hi alien - sorry - I dont know. Although this is my fourth marine reef tank - its the first sps tank I'v tried - so I dont know what normal is. I do know I am aiming to achieve what Iwan has

Cheers

SImon

[h20cooled]

Coral growth will be different from tank to tank and coral to coral. I have some SPS that have trippled in over a year and some that seem like they have barely grown at all.

Also just wanted to say hi! I order the Prodibio products from Rob's Reef and I'm excited to get them started on my tanks. I'm hoping that I can get more color out of the SPS and get rid of the algea also. My 50G SPS tank is growing great, actually to fast cause I'm growing out of it. The color isn't bad and people that see it in person always say it looks great, I'm just looking to make it better (like Iwans).

Right now I'm in the planning stages for a 120G tank and I will be switch over to only T5 lighting for it and 2x Tunze 6100 streams for circulation. I'm hoping with the T5 lighting and the Prodibio products to get amazing colors.

Thanx,

Rich