Lighting Website Updates - Page 27

FVernese · #**651** 11/02/2006, 03:03 PM

Sanjay and hahnmeister thanks for the help. I will go with 3 lumenarc DEs (perfect size) and 250 DE 10000K bulbs with PFO HQI ballast.

With Respect to the bulbs, the EVC, XM or AB have good efficiency with PPFD/CCT of 147/5700, 109/7026, and 107/8225, respectively. I assume if I want more blue I would go with the AB?

Regards

hahnmeister · #**652** 11/02/2006, 03:19 PM

Your numbers seem a little off, but you are correct in assuming that the EVC is a much yellower bulb... its more like a 6500K, and all that extra light in the red/yellow spectrums wont do much for you except brown stuff out.

I strongly suggest looking at the Geisemann Coral 13,000K. More light than the XM/AB, but bluer looking. The quality of the G-man bulbs is also very good. I used to have one that lasted 2 years, no problems.

FVernese · #**653** 11/02/2006, 03:32 PM

I must have missed that one on Sanjay's list. It looks great and given your experience with it I now have the last piece of the puzzle. I will go with the Geisemann 250 Coral 13K DE.

Thanks again
Frank

Sanjay · #**654** 11/02/2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Your numbers seem a little off, but you are correct in assuming that the EVC is a much yellower bulb... its more like a 6500K, and all that extra light in the red/yellow spectrums wont do much for you except brown stuff out.

I absolutely do not agree that the EVC will brown stuff out. I have used this lamp and have never faced this problem. If you search the site you will find the Penn State tank pictures with the EVC lamps and there is nothing there that is browned out. The colors of the corals were spectacular.

sanjay.

brad23 · #**655** 11/02/2006, 06:25 PM

Anyone have pics of what the Iwasaki 15000k look like? color

Mr Howdy · #**656** 11/02/2006, 06:28 PM

hahnmeister
Thats for the quick reply!

hahnmeister · #**657** 11/03/2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sanjay
I absolutely do not agree that the EVC will brown stuff out. I have used this lamp and have never faced this problem. If you search the site you will find the Penn State tank pictures with the EVC lamps and there is nothing there that is browned out. The colors of the corals were spectacular.

sanjay.

Sure, Im sure you can get great growth from it, but I just find it easier to brown corals out with warmer K bulbs. I can brown out a coral with a 250wattDE 10,000K on IC ballast, but I could use a bluer bulb with a much higher output (400wattHQI 14,000K) and never have that happen. Same coral, same tank, jus swap the bulb/ballast out and even though there is more PAR the coral doesnt brown out? Seems to go against some ideas... If Dana Riddle's research with LEDs suggested anything, it was that its much harder to brown corals out with all blue light than it is with red. I suppose, its an 'extreme', and I know that warmer/fuller range bulbs dont mean less color (they usually mean more)... but they were just tricky for me. Then again, I run at a pretty high wattage per gallon ratio on my tanks.

kdblove_99 · #**658** 11/08/2006, 12:24 AM

Ok,

I have no idea how to read this stuff! Like what efficiency is good, etc. Need to buy 2 DE Metal halide bulbs. probably 10K but maybe 14K

hahnmeister · #**659** 11/08/2006, 12:51 AM

What tank size, what do you plan to keep in the tank, etc...??

LRS · #**660** 11/09/2006, 10:50 AM

Hello Sanjay / Hahnmeitster,

I am currently setting up a 40g SPS frag tank, 36"l x 18"w x 16"h. I have a PFO 400W HQI ballast and a PFO horizontal SE pendant. What bulb would you suggest for "optimal" growth without compromising too much on esthetics. I was thinking of an Aqua Connect 400w 14K or XM 400w 10K/15K ( I don't know if 15K is available). What suggestions would you have? Also, How high above the top of the tank would the pendant give me an optimal spread? Your advice/comments will be very much appreciated!

Many thanks...

TropTrea · #**661** 11/09/2006, 01:42 PM

My thoughs here are that it might not be the bulb itself but the combination of bulb and coral.

Each coral type has various photosynthesis chemicals which are distributed in different ratios. Each of these chemicals also reacts to different frequencies of light in different ways. General speaking if the chemical is appearing blue then it is reflecting and not using blue light but instead other colors in the light spectrum.

Say we have a coral with three photosynthesis chemical we will call A, B, and C. Chemical A absorbs and utalizes light at 450 nm and reflects light at 500nm., Chemical B utalizes light at 475 nm and reflects light at 550 nm, and C utalizes light at 600nm and and reflects it at 720nm.

In a perfectly balanced situation all three chemicals are in equal proportion and receiving equal amounts in each of these frequencies. Suddenly the lighting is changed to where more light is at 600 nm, and there is little light available at 475 nm. The long term result is that the Chemical C would increase from 30% to possibly 60%, Chemical A would remain at about 30% and Chemical B drop to 10%.

While the coral would still remain healthy as it has adjusted to the new light frequencies it also will have a drastic shift in its coloring. Now mind you I picked wavelenghts out of a hat in this example but each coral has a different balance between various chemicals which creats the many different colar colors and hues. Any change in the lighting can cause shifts in these colors on the bases of what light is available for them to refelce as well as where the pigmented chemicals will prevail.

Dennis

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Sure, Im sure you can get great growth from it, but I just find it easier to brown corals out with warmer K bulbs. I can brown out a coral with a 250wattDE 10,000K on IC ballast, but I could use a bluer bulb with a much higher output (400wattHQI 14,000K) and never have that happen. Same coral, same tank, jus swap the bulb/ballast out and even though there is more PAR the coral doesnt brown out? Seems to go against some ideas... If Dana Riddle's research with LEDs suggested anything, it was that its much harder to brown corals out with all blue light than it is with red. I suppose, its an 'extreme', and I know that warmer/fuller range bulbs dont mean less color (they usually mean more)... but they were just tricky for me. Then again, I run at a pretty high wattage per gallon ratio on my tanks.

TropTrea · #**662** 11/09/2006, 02:02 PM

1. I think 400 Watts is to much for a 40 gallon tank.

2. Since you already have the ballast what I would then use as frist choice the XM 10000K which gives a high PAR and a slightly bluer spectrum than the other high par bulbs. As a second choice I'd go with XM20000K with a lot lesser PAR than the other bulb but a much bluer look.

3. With the 400W bulbs you could raise the bulb considerably higher than if you used a 250W which will give you more even light distribution .

4. Now if you were suplementing with Actinics then I'd look at the EV or Hamilton bulbs.

Dennis

Quote:

Originally posted by LRS
Hello Sanjay / Hahnmeitster,

I am currently setting up a 40g SPS frag tank, 36"l x 18"w x 16"h. I have a PFO 400W HQI ballast and a PFO horizontal SE pendant. What bulb would you suggest for "optimal" growth without compromising too much on esthetics. I was thinking of an Aqua Connect 400w 14K or XM 400w 10K/15K ( I don't know if 15K is available). What suggestions would you have? Also, How high above the top of the tank would the pendant give me an optimal spread? Your advice/comments will be very much appreciated!

Many thanks...

LRS · #**663** 11/09/2006, 02:22 PM

TropTrea thanks for your reply, however, my question is in comparison between the Aqua Connect 14K bulb vs the XM 10K/15K, not the 20K. Also, I don't care about the height of a 250W bulb only the height above an aquarium with my dimensions with a 400W bulb.

Les :-)

hahnmeister · #**664** 11/09/2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LRS
Hello Sanjay / Hahnmeitster,

I am currently setting up a 40g SPS frag tank, 36"l x 18"w x 16"h. I have a PFO 400W HQI ballast and a PFO horizontal SE pendant. What bulb would you suggest for "optimal" growth without compromising too much on esthetics. I was thinking of an Aqua Connect 400w 14K or XM 400w 10K/15K ( I don't know if 15K is available). What suggestions would you have? Also, How high above the top of the tank would the pendant give me an optimal spread? Your advice/comments will be very much appreciated!

Many thanks...

OMG, 400watts over a 40B is overkill. At that, I hope you like 20,000K bulbs, because thats about all Im gonna suggest to help bring that output down a bit... but with a PFO HQI ballast, that leads me to only one bulb: UShio/BLV Neptiurion 20,000K, because I think its the only HQI rated 400watt 20,000K bulb around. Using a non-HQI rated bulb will kill any other bulb you use rather fast. An electronic ballast in this case would give you more options... I hate to say. But that AC 14,000K or a 10,000K bulb... those are overkill for a 40b. You could run two 40Bs side by side with that much light.

The light spread would depend on your reflector, but being that its only a 40g, I would not use a lumenarc or something large like that. I would instead mount the bulb higher and use smaller reflector like a SLS Reef Optix or a PFO pendant... which you already have. At that, I would start with 12" above the tank and go from there. You are going to be able to grow SPS on the bottom of the tank still.

Honestly, a 250wattDE would cut it... but I suppose there are times with my 40Bs (I have two that run on 250wattDE haldies, one is a pheonix 14,000K, and the other is a EVC 20,000K) when I wish I could go 20,000K 100% and still have decent output, but that would require a 400watt bulb most likely. But I would use an e-ballast so I could use probe-start bulbs (the dominant type of 400wattSE bulb in the US... XM, Coralvue, EVC, Helios, etc... all probe start bulbs).

LRS · #**665** 11/09/2006, 04:15 PM

Thanks for your quick response Hahnmeitster. I'm not very pleased with the 20K bulb, however, I will look into the UShio and hopefully it will provide me with some good growth. Maybe in the future I will get a deeper, larger frag tank and then I will have more bulb options.

All the Best...
Les

hahnmeister · #**666** 11/09/2006, 04:40 PM

Yeah, like a 4'x4'x14" frag vat... then I would go with a 14,000K Aquaconnect. Dont worry too much. Many people wish they had the wattage to spare to run all 20,000Ks. The coloration and growth will be good, and keep in mind that 400watt 20,000Ks are often more 'daylight' than their 250watt and smaller versions. All light levels are brought up across the spectral graph, so while there might be loads of actinic and blue, you will get a good amount of red, green, and yellow as well... as much as a 250watt 14,000K at least.

kdblove_99 · #**667** 11/09/2006, 06:28 PM

keeping mainly LPS and soft coral, zoo's and shrooms and would also like to add a clam or two

hahnmeister · #**668** 11/09/2006, 09:19 PM

huh?

kdblove_99 · #**669** 11/09/2006, 10:19 PM

In a few posts up i wrote and thought you asked me a question so i replied

Ok,

I have no idea how to read this stuff! Like what efficiency is good, etc. Need to buy 2 DE Metal halide bulbs. probably 10K but maybe 14K

hahnmeister
Original SCWD m0dder

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Occupation: I engineer electricity.
Posts: 2977

What tank size, what do you plan to keep in the tank, etc...??

__________________

LRS · #**670** 11/09/2006, 10:50 PM

Hello Hahnmeister, I am also planning to upgrade my 40g DT (20"l x 18"w x 24"h) lighting from a 150W 20K Giesmann DE MH bulb on a hang-on Coralife pendant to a 250W DE MH pendant. I have a PFO 250W electronic ballast and would like to use a 14K Aqua Connect bulb. However, I have a choice of three pendants. A PFO DE pendant, a Lumenmax DE pendant or a Reef Optix 3 DE pendant. The Lumenmax is $40 more than the other two. Is it worth the extra money or which pendant of the three would you suggest?

Many thanks...
Les

hahnmeister · #**671** 11/10/2006, 01:11 AM

You know, this is Sanjay's thread... oh well, maybe Sanjay can use the time saved on setting up his new 500g... he can kick me out any time he wants.

kdblove_99, I got you now... I had to scroll up a bit because I didnt remember. I got you now. Okay, so you dont need a very bright light field, but what size tank is it? Dimensions?

LRS, usually, yes the lumenmax would be worth it, but in particular with larger tanks. One of those lumenmax bulbs can cover a 2x2 footprint, if not 3x3. Thats just overkill for your tank. Im trying a lumenarcDE over my 40B... thats just overkill as well (waiting to put it over the new 150g soon).

The lumenmax is better, but I just dont see the point in your case.... the tank isnt large enough to benefit from it. At that, the Reef Optix DE would be my choice.

kdblove_99 · #**672** 11/10/2006, 08:59 AM

Its a 180 6x2x2

hahnmeister · #**673** 11/10/2006, 08:23 PM

Thats hard to do with only two halides... 3 is more of the 'standard' because you have to cover 6', and each halide has trouble covering more than a 2'x2' area usually. Sure, you can raise the reflectors up more to cover more side to side, but then you are looking at wasting alot of light that will spill out of the front and back. There are many possible combos, but I know a buddy of mine here, prugs, runs his 210g (6'x2'x30"h) with three 250wattDE pheonix 14,oooKs. Thats one option, but three would be the best, not two.

If you want to stick with 2, you could use some T5s to 'fill in'. You could use 5' 80 watt bulbs... one aquablue, one actinic, and one blue+... kind of a blue/day look overall... but then you could get away with 10,000Ks on the halides. I say only 3 80watt T5s because you can run them at 100watts each (300watts total) on an icecap660 ballast. IF you prefer regular T5 ballasts, two 2x80watt ballasts would allow you to run 4 bulbs... two blue+, one aquablue, one actinic to fill in the center 2' between the halide reflectors. That would actually be a pretty sweet setup... one I would consider over the 3 halides. Very flexible and good for whatever you want to grow. You can get more or less output depending on the mix of bulb colors you use. I just dont see dual halides giving you the spread you need though with the dimensions of that tank. You could place them closer together in the center (but I think you might have cross brcaces blocking that), but that will leave the ends pretty dark... too dark for shrooms possibly.

hahnmeister · #**674** 11/10/2006, 08:34 PM

Sanjay,

Did the Giesemann bulb mixup ever get sorted out?
http://www.giesemannlicht.com/catalo...prodspare&id=8
On your page, you have the coral bulb listed as the 13,000K.
The 14,500K is the Coral, and the 13,000K is the Marine (20,000K is blue). I dont think any of their older bulbs are still made either. From the spectral plot, it looks like you tested the new 13,000K, but its called the 'Marine', not the 'Coral'. The older 10,000K, 20,000Ks, and 13,000Ks are gone last I heard... you might want to note that in the bulb description ('old') so people dont get confused. The new bulbs are similar in appearance (except for the new 14,500K), only much brighter.

If you would like to test a Coral 14,500K, let me know... I have one laying around. As well as the 14,000K Ushio.

I also have the 1yr old pheonix bulbs... one on HQI, one on IC e-ballast for that long term comparison if you like. Saved 2 just for you...

hounddog01 · #**675** 11/12/2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sanjay
I will be testing these soon. david just sent me some lamps.

sanjay.

I was wondering if you will post data on these bulbs here or just add them to your data base. If you just add them could you let us know when you have finished your testing. I appriciate your data it is very helpful.