No Lights for 3 Days Every Couple of Months Works Wonders!

[melev]

Originally posted by michaeltwana
that is exactly the problem...

a single tank and not multiples where methods and results can be accomplished.

That is the exact point of this thread. People are posting their results and the original poster is compiling their responses to get a better feel for its benefit or lack thereof.

Originally posted by michaeltwana
MELEV--Your answers don't really address the issue that this is not really anything more than a notion. That is all I am saying. Your answers make sense, but why are they happening?

You might see a drop in algae, but what are these so called "purifications" that are taking place? I have not seen any listed or anything measured.

It is a notion, and a good one in my opinion. Enough of one that I decided I was going to try it myself. Plus he didn't just say "Hey, I've got this idea" and I blindly followed along. He stated that he'd done is several times over the past year with good results. I felt that it could benefit my own reef, and even though I was hesitant, I chose to proceed.

Due to independent thinking, this hobby has moved forward substantially in the last 5 years. The more we think outside the box, the more this hobby grows. I bet some day people will be telling newbies "And remember that every three months, unplug your lights for three days..." - assuming this ends up being a viable and beneficial concept. Time will tell.

[melev]

Originally posted by michaeltwana
Melev--I am glad your not a scientist..your too nice of a guy...serious.

lots of love....

I don't have the patience for it, whatsoever. Hobbyist for life!

[Abynum1]

michaeltwana, Melev nailed it a few posts back.
I don't know the scientific reasoning behind 99% of the choices I have made in regards to my tank.
I made them after doing tons of reading here on RC.
I chose my substrate,equipment,salt, livestock,and everything else based on the opinions,tests and trials of those on this website.
So far,the huge majority of people who have tried this have had positive results.
If,six months down the road, we start seeing longer term negative results,then I'll be the 1st to say "uh oh" and change my tactics.
In the meantime, I want to ride it out and see.
I may never know exactly what is going on here, but if the results remain positive long term, then that will be enough for me.

After rereading your posts, I can see that you are just looking for the "why" and I apologize for for categorizing you in the same group with the couple of others who seemed to have deemed this a failure from the get go.
I guess it was your statement "it doesn't really make sense to me as to why one would really do this." that made me assume you were against it without even trying it.

Anyway, you seem to have an honest desire for the scientific explanations, and if you are able, it would be great if you could do some type of study.
I would be glad to participate in that as well.
I'm no scientist by any means,but I would be happy to perform water tests, photograph, or whatever you would need to help the study.

[michaeltwana]

"That is the exact point of this thread. People are posting their results and the original poster is compiling their responses to get a better feel for its benefit or lack thereof." MELEV

The problem with this is that you would have to take into account all the different variables from each and every tank...i.e. some have skimmers, some don't...so to say that just because they have come up with results that resemble someone elses results do not really prove anything...

[michaeltwana]

Abynum1...thanks actually for your kind words...serious... I do like RC but at times I wonder about methods and results too much sometimes...thanks

[michaeltwana]

I actually don't think its a bad idea, I think that some of the methods/results may be flawed, but not that thats bad. I just am interested in how this equals certain results. And if it works great...really, I mean it.

[Abynum1]

Originally posted by michaeltwana

The problem with this is that you would have to take into account all the different variables from each and every tank...i.e. some have skimmers, some don't...so to say that just because they have come up with results that resemble someone elses results do not really prove anything...

But that stands true for everything else we do to our tanks as well.
It doesn't matter if we are talking about the lights out theory, or any other theory, nothing will ever be 100% true for all tanks due the variables you mentioned.
EVERY single peice of good advise that I have read has always started or ended with "depends on your setup."

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by michaeltwana
The problem with this is that you would have to take into account all the different variables from each and every tank...i.e. some have skimmers, some don't...so to say that just because they have come up with results that resemble someone elses results do not really prove anything...

The observations compiled are not really meant to prove anything as we all know science demands much more rigorous study to come to any kind of conclusion. The collection of observations can however help one make a more informed decision on whether or not they want to try doing black-outs once and awhile.

[michaeltwana]

But the real problem is with people who might follow this as being a cure all to their mistakes that could have been avoided if they would have just been patient for example...like look at the TOTM this month, very much bucks the notions that you need to change your h2o so many times and you need to have your levels checked by a certified scientist to make it all possible. But I would bet that he did not rush into it, or maybe he did? who knows???

peace and love.. i am out

[Abynum1]

Thanks michaeltwana,
If you ever do decide to do the lights out or start some type of study please let us know the results.

[KafudaFish]

Could someone measure their water with a light meter or a turbidity meter before and after the 3 day no light treatment? This would be one way to turn this into a quantitative study instead of a qualitative one.
Each person performing this is an independent observation. Collectively, correlations could be drawn whether or not if the treatment leads to improved tank conditions.
It would not take too much to collect data vs. simple observations. But simple observations are valid science as well.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by michaeltwana
But the real problem is with people who might follow this as being a cure all to their mistakes that could have been avoided if they would have just been patient

No one here can control how each individual is going to treat their tanks. All we can do is encourage them to do their own research and come to their own conclusions accordingly. In this hobby many people are looking for finite answers to things. In most cases there are too many variables inherent to this hobby to yield such answers.

[arts007]

I thought I would post my results of this as I have just tried this. I was having an issue with bryopsis plumosa on the back of the glass that was very difficult to remove. The rocks and sand were fairly clean to begin with.

Results were that the plumosa was about 40% was gone, but the rest of it was much more easily scraped off. The water clarity is much better.

I do have a mix of coral...i.e acros, mushrooms, leather, frogspawn, hammer, caulastrea, zoa's and some anthelia. I saw no negative effects on any of the corals (they were healthy from the start). They opened and extended their polyps within 1hr of lights going back on. I did notice 3 spots of coralline that started to grow on the overflow about the size of a dime as well.

-Joe

[RichConley]

I just read this whole thread.

Its horrifying. I've never seen people seeking understanding so ruthlessly driven away. You guys are worse than the zeovit people.

Everytime someone came in and tried to ask what was actually going on, they got "stop being a downer. We dont want to hear your point of view"

[kslick]

how about we just stick to the topic at hand: No Lights for 3 Days Every Couple of Months Works Wonders!

[RichConley]

questioning why it works IS part of the topic at hand.

Its like the inquisition in here.

[kslick]

how about we just stick to the topic at hand: No Lights for 3 Days Every Couple of Months Works Wonders!

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by RichConley
I just read this whole thread.

Its horrifying. I've never seen people seeking understanding so ruthlessly driven away. You guys are worse than the zeovit people.

Everytime someone came in and tried to ask what was actually going on, they got "stop being a downer. We dont want to hear your point of view"

Thanks for your insightful contribution to the thread. Some people here need to be a bit more tactful in their posts or they would not have been responded to the way they have. They stated their point of view and were responded to and that's that.

There will always be people who need specific anwsers to their questions and concerns. The problem is the answers are limited to this point. I don't mind being challenged and questioned about the subject at hand.

[Aquabucket]

Time for an updated tally:

Those who did a 3 day black-out.

davocean ~ *did it in the past to help rid hair algae.
Ritten ~ *did it in the past but now regularly does 2 days.
sjm817 ~ *does it when going on 3 day vacations.
triggerfreak ~ *reported that algae was gone.
cristhiam ~ *reported that HA was in a weakened state.
melev ~*cyano bacteria in refugium is gone, brown stuff on the tips of the corals is virtually gone, the glass is clean and doesn't need wiping, clam is out and happy and the corals are starting to perk up, several acros RTN'd but that may have been a result of chronic low salinity.
Icefire ~ *severe phyto problem diminished by 30%, xenia colony shrinked by 75% and looks to be near dead.
tomasga ~ *did a week of darkness with 95% of algae reported gone.
PupChow ~ *small patchs of cyano remained and bryopsis growth slowed.
SaltwaterDaddy ~ *part of regular routine and has done it many times with excellent results.
sjediets ~ *went 6 days once during hurricane with no losses.
rickh ~ *bryopsis unaffected.
chris wright ~*tank was a lot cleaner than expected and cyano was 99% gone.
MO Will ~*micro algae diminished with no apparent deleterious impact on the SPS, LPS, anenomes and fish.
Herpn ~*keeps lights off when away for long weekends.
mg426 ~*algae on sand is diminished.
Abynum1 ~*no cyano whatsoever and 90% of the hair algae is gone.
evoracer ~*water is crystal clear, corals out and VERY happy, snail eggs on glass.
jhuggins ~ *water was very crystal clear and most of the corals looked great, an acro looks lost but it was nearly dead when acquired.
lemonsx4 ~*cyano that began to take hold is all gone.
coraladdict ~*all cyano gone.
BigDaddy ~ *removed dinos.
kenny77 ~ *has done it in the past with cyano being eradicated.
tcottle ~ *all cyano gone.
dustin323 ~*all cyano gone.
FishHick ~ *reported a little bleaching in his zoos but dinos were gone.
steve9k ~ *one small spot of cyano remained and some corals never looked happier.
Rick2203 ~ *does it regularly to successfully combat HA.
clekchau ~ *reported that all cyano was gone.
jba6511~ *cyano was 95% gone, water looked amazing and all corals seem fine.
isistius ~ *all of the corals seem very happy, hair algae is almost totally gone, water is also much clearer.
RobbyG ~ *ORP now up to 320-400 and steady, acros and mushrooms seemed to be improve and look better than before, water is much clearer and the sand was bright white, copepod population was much more visible, diatoms on the sand where gone but slowly came back after 7 days, fish not eating as much, bubble coral that was recovering relapsed back into a near death state, PH dropped to 8.05.
tfp ~ *cyano/diatoms gone but returning after a few months.
bluetmax ~ *new clarity to the water, SPS and other corals look superb.
vol_reefer ~ *the vast bulk of cyano (which was substantial) is gone, small proportion of xenia near death when the lights came back on, SPS and LPS look very happy, few smaller frags that were single branches look like they started forming new axial coralites, small a. turaki frag RTN'd a day after.
neotekz ~ *dinos on sand unaffected.
Bloke ~ *cyano eradicated.
dtaylor123 ~ *already part of regular routine.
zeusfc ~ *wire algae unaffected.
invincible569 ~ *tank remained clear of cyano/algae for 2 weeks but is now returning, RTN on an acro appeared after 1 week but is now recovering.
bfg ~ diatoms on sand decreased 60-70%, small blenny has cloudy eyes.
RBU1 ~ Had a BAD cyano outbreak. The rock is now clear of cyano and so is the glass. More than happy with the results.
waveform ~ "Sometimes pictures are better than words."
TOYTEK ~ What was left of HA is still there, but no longer green, maybe its dead?, water very clear (clearer than usually is after a 25 % water change), sand is cleaner, snails, hermits, and emerald crab much more active while lights out, green/brown "new tank" algae on rocks almost all gone.
TBAquascapes ~ All the dino died off, as well as the cyano at the back of the tank, cyano actually grew more as it appeared in new areas in the front of the tank during the dark period. On the good side, all corals and clams seem fine, and the water is definitely sparkling. [/B]
hambone77 ~ Said it worked for him but his Elegance coral is slow to recover.
oct2274 ~ Reported no effect on hair algae & less build up on glass.
hootie51 ~ The sand was cleaner (diatoms) and the corals opened up to their full extent. Everything looks good and I think it might be helpful to add a 2-3 day blackout to monthly maintenance routines.
AJtheReefer ~ Was able to remove a few left over patches of HA, skimmer pulled significantly more on 2nd night, Nitrates were higher, .1 (they are always 0), great water clarity and polyp extension, a bit more of RTNing on a SPS frag (Was already RTNing, not sure if the lights out contributed more).
chris4869 ~ Dino died back by about 5-10%, Mushrooms expanded in size during the 3 day light-out and had agreenish-gold sheen a week afterward, Maxima clam, Birdnest, Acropora, Montipora, and anemonies were unaffected, Water clarity unchanged. It's really clear to begin, PH dropped slightly, Coraline algae unaffected.
Caleb Kruse ~ Turned the lights off for 3 days, and then only actinics for the day after and all my cyano died.
jwinn ~ Rocks cleared up great doing this.
TriniStylez ~ I have just finished trying this out and it worked great! I have no more Cyano and a bunch of happy corals, which opened right up as soon as the regular lighting period began again. I wouldn't say they look better but certainly no worse. The tank as a whole looks WAY better!
Coderabit2 ~ "Tried this out and had good results like I've read in the thread", fungia coral became bloated during dark period.
pledosophy ~ Has been doing this on his tanks for years, cyano died after three days of no light, algae problems especially hair algae and bryopsis were also reduced, skimmer pulls out more during the dark period, refugium remains lit during the process to help with pH and macro growth.

[kslick]

Wasn't trying to be rude, just seems like every thread gets off track, because someone needs to argue a point. Gets a little frustrating sometimes.

[RobbyG]

If Rich and Bean get in the mix you will see 20 more pages added to this fairly quickly :

Rich the theory behind why Aquabucket and others think this works has been stated many times. What you guys seem to be asking for is empirical data which is beyond the scope of the people involved with this thread. The problem is that some people have come on the thread with a very stubborn attitude that either you "show me the Data or stop talking".
Even though everyone has a different setup etc we can still see some clear data coming out of this thread, given time we should know a lot more and be able to make some definitive statements

[poppin_fresh]

My light have been out for 18 hours now. I will report my findings in another 24 hrs or so. Granted these will be my observations only, but come on, its gotta be worth something!

[RichConley]

Robby, I'm not looking for empirical data, I'm looking for more people who aren't starting out with horrible cyano.

Its not rocket science to say that turning your lights out a couple of days will kills some algae. Theyre low order photosynthetic animals. Of course theyre going to be the first to go.

You guys just seem to be glossing over, and trying to explain away, all the coral deaths in Aquabucket's list, and that worried me. Someone earlier said their Gonis hated it, and you ran him out of the thread.


"Some people here need to be a bit more tactful in their posts or they would not have been responded to the way they have. They stated their point of view and were responded to and that's that.
"

The guy you ran out of the thread WAS VERY TACTFUL. Go back and read his initial posts. You called him an out and out liar when he disagreed with you. This place is supposed to be about the open flow of information, and part of having an open flow is listening when people dont agree with you.



FWIW, I just pulled the green pin out of my light timer. We'll see what happens.

[coraladdict]

The way I see the blackout method as a none scientist eye is with the obtained results that I have seen with my own two eyes and everone elses experienced on this thread.Those who bash etc. I see as a blackout on this thread

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by RichConley
Its not rocket science to say that turning your lights out a couple of days will kills some algae. Theyre low order photosynthetic animals. Of course theyre going to be the first to go.

You guys just seem to be glossing over, and trying to explain away, all the coral deaths in Aquabucket's list, and that worried me. Someone earlier said their Gonis hated it, and you ran him out of the thread.

Nothing has been glossed over Rich its all there in the data. I never called anyone a liar or ran someone off this thread.

If you look at some of the people who have had some coral problems you will see that several of them had other issues going on in their tank and some of the corals were stressed to begin with. It was Mr. Kelly who had the goni problem and it seems to have been just a short term issue of it not expanding as fully as before. We all know gonis are very sensitive corals to begin with.

So far most of the problems have been with some SPS corals RTN'ing and that has always concerned me right from the beginning and I stated that early on. No one has reported any deaths as of yet but that may change.

Good luck with your black-out and I look forward to hearing your results!