Lighting Website Updates - Page 24

Sanjay · #**576** 08/07/2006, 10:17 PM

I usually do not keep track of the latest bulbs out there.. but if you see one and want to get it tested ask the manufacturer/supplier to send me one and I will eventually get around to it. :-)

Its a slow process given that I have a lot of other stuff gets priority over testing lamps that I would most likely have very limited interest in, but it will eventually get done.

sanjay.

wfgworks · #**577** 08/08/2006, 04:59 PM

smatter

Can you post their website link?

hahnmeister · #**578** 08/08/2006, 08:35 PM

Sanjay, I am still trying to decide between the ocean optics... the USB650 or the USB4000. Maybe Im being foolish, but what level of accuracy is closest to what you are using?

Also, do you have specs/diagrams listed anywhere for how one can replicate the testing conditions/devices you use for testing bulbs? It would be nice if I could replicate your test results as much as possible so that direct comparisons could be made between the systems. Im looking for info on the 'black box' and whatever else you use.

Sanjay · #**579** 08/09/2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Sanjay, I am still trying to decide between the ocean optics... the USB650 or the USB4000. Maybe Im being foolish, but what level of accuracy is closest to what you are using?

Also, do you have specs/diagrams listed anywhere for how one can replicate the testing conditions/devices you use for testing bulbs? It would be nice if I could replicate your test results as much as possible so that direct comparisons could be made between the systems. Im looking for info on the 'black box' and whatever else you use.

I think if you get the new one that they have.. the Red Tide model it should be fine. It costs $999.

You will need a cosine corrected PAR sensor, a caliberation light source, since these spectrometers read relative values and to have the software convert into absolute you need an known spectral source.

You will also need to get the software that goes with it.. I think that is around $250 or so.

sanjay.

hahnmeister · #**580** 08/09/2006, 11:33 AM

1.I figured the software and the probe... didnt figure on a calibration source... are these sold by OO or is that something I have to come up with...??? I suppose I could feed values from a bulb that you have tested and that I have...that would line things up, right? Argh, Ill just wait for OO to call me back (all the sales people are in a meeting today... of course, maybe I should talk to a tech guy/gal instead)

2.anyways... I can get that from OO, what I really wanted to know about was your 'black box'. How big... 4' cube? Where are the holes/ where are the probes held in relation to the sensors? I thought I saw it in one of your articles somewhere, but I cant seem to find it.

3.What is the testing method/setup that you use for testing PAR ?(just a fixed point in a black box w/o a reflector, but how far away from the bulb?)

4.What is the method for spectrum? (same as PAR I assume, or is it different because you use a different instrument to measure?

5.What is the grid like that you use for reflector testing?

6.I was also going to make a test box for T5 bulbs and reflectors... I figure a 6' wide box (for measuring values off to the sides of a 4' bulb with reflectors) that is 12" wide and 24" tall should be enough... or should I go wider for better testing from front to back... something like 18" or even... gosh... 24"? That would be a 180g box for T5 testing... I had better make this thing so it breaks apart for storage or the woman will kill me.

alrha · #**581** 08/14/2006, 12:46 PM

would you reccommend runnning 400W 20000K PFO HQI Double-Ended Metal Halide Bulbs on IceCap Electronic Ballasts? or better to use the 400W 20000K IceCap Double-Ended bulbs on the IceCap Ballast?

CMaddog · #**582** 08/15/2006, 02:21 PM

Sanjay,

What can you tell me about the LED lights? Have you checked those out? I am getting back into the hobby after many years (5) out. I am intrigued by the LED lamps, given how little they cost to run (but cost a TON to purchase). Are you going to be posting on those lamps? Thanks.

Chris

getwood65 · #**583** 09/02/2006, 10:07 AM

any info on the ushio 250w 20k de bulbs-are they the same as the blv lamps

alrha · #**584** 09/02/2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alrha
would you reccommend runnning 400W 20000K PFO HQI Double-Ended Metal Halide Bulbs on IceCap Electronic Ballasts? or better to use the 400W 20000K IceCap Double-Ended bulbs on the IceCap Ballast?

anyone have an opinion on this?

booncool · #**585** 09/04/2006, 09:40 PM

AQUALINE BUSHKE 20000K and XM 20000k
Which one has the greater PAR?

hahnmeister · #**586** 09/04/2006, 10:33 PM

AB

moonpod · #**587** 09/04/2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alrha
anyone have an opinion on this?

Yeah, don't use 400w DE bulbs. They color shift so fast it's ridiculous. It doesn't much matter whose bulbs you use. They all seem to be prone to it.

On a helpful note, there is a rumour that a major lighting manufacturer is going to start making 400w DE bulbs with one of the goals being to avoid early color shifting.

getwood--Ushio and BLV are one and the same, but the bulb lines aren't necessarily identical. Certain bulbs are. the new 14ks are the same. But the 10ks for instance are different. I'm not sure about the 20ks.

cooper9177 · #**588** 09/09/2006, 08:28 AM

I am setting up a 36" deep mixed reef no sps it is a upgrade from a 65 gal. to a 150 gal. I currently am using 175 watt XM 20K. on the new tank I have 2 400 watt Icecap ballasts but I am not sure what brand of 20K bulb to use

hahnmeister · #**589** 09/09/2006, 02:44 PM

What dimensions are that 150g? 36" tall is unusual... must be something like 4'x2'x3' if you are going to use dual 400s...

If you like the blue...

CoralVue and Helios 20,000K, or if you want more output with slightly less purple, the Aquaconnect 14,000K... if you can find it...

nycreef · #**590** 09/14/2006, 11:44 AM

I would like to get some feedback on lighting a 96 x 42 x 36
what kind of bulbs ballasts reflectors and how many lights positioned in what way.

My way was 8x 400watt ushios/ icecaps/ lumenarcs
id like a reduction in mh's but dont know if 4 in the middle will cover the grounds. lps/sps/clams on sandbed

ASH · #**591** 09/14/2006, 12:26 PM

From IceCap:
If you follow the 2 foot rule, I'd recommend
175- 250-250-400-250-400-250-175 or similar variety.
If you went with our new Mogul based MH pendants, they adjust from 175, 250 or to allow for a 400 SE MH bulb.
I'd add 8 X T5HO 54-watt lamps powered by a pair of Model 660s. One 660 for super actinic only and the other a mix so you can have low tech dawn and dimming down effect at the end of the day. If you needed more PAR, you could change the T5HO lamps to include more GE 6.5K or actinic white lamps.
Andy

reeflover2 · #**592** 09/16/2006, 11:51 PM

Sanajy not trying to steel your thread at all but I would like your expert opinion. I have a 84" x 72" x 30" SPS tank that I am trying to figure out lighting on. I have two cross braces and a 6" euro brace. My tank openings are basically 5 feet x 19". Obviously there are 3 openings. My tank is viewable from the 7' and 6' through low iron. I do not want to run 10K lamps and am very confused at the moment on the best lighting setup. My thoughts have been to either run 8 400W's or 11 400W's. I have a corner overflow in the back corner of the tank so it would either be 3, 3, 2 or 4, 4, 3. I was going to use the new lumenmax 2 reflectors. I love the look of Steve Weasts tank (Oregon Reef) it is one of the best. I have talked to him and he is running 14 400's all with luminarcs. Thanks in advance. Ian

hahnmeister · #**593** 09/17/2006, 12:01 AM

Why dont you want to run 10,000K lamps?

reeflover2 · #**594** 09/17/2006, 08:29 AM

I do not want any yellow look. I was considering it though as with some of the brands I could probably get away with 250W 10K's

hahnmeister · #**595** 09/17/2006, 03:21 PM

You can combine with T5 bulbs. One of the sweetest looking tanks I know of uses dual 250wattDE 10,000Ks and 4x54watt T5s (the T5s are 2x blue+ and 2x actinic03). The tank does not look yellow one bit, but rather more of a 'day blue'. Its hard to describe the look. Its like a 14,000K, but not as sterile. Oh, and I have never seen corals grow as fast or as colored as under this combo.

watt for watt, Im thinking that 10,000K halides with T5s for supplimental blue/actinic are the best. I used to be a fan of using only halides... 14,000K and 20,000Ks, as at one time actinics and other supplimental bulbs were just so weak. But now: You can get over 100PPFD easily with a 250wattDE 10,000K, and then those blue T5s dont slouch either, so you really get a bright, yet blue look. So lets compare... a 250watt halide with 2x54wattT5s (1/2 of my friends setup), with what he would use if he wanted to use say... halide alone (so two 400watt halides, but 1/2 of that would be a single 400watt halide).

Even the best 14,000K or 20,000K bulbs barely provide over 100 PPFD on an electronic ballast. Sure, you can use HQI, but unless you want to burn those bulbs out super-fast, you had better stick to HQI rated 400 watt bulbs. The list is few... Aquaconnect 14,000K (good luck finding that!), Aqualine 10,000K (but wouldnt want to use because its 10,000K), BLV 14,000K or 20,000K (good luck finding that). These bulbs do give you up to 170 PPFD (the AC), but if you go with a majority of the bulbs on the market, they wont be this much because they are probe start 400s and should be kept on e-ballasts. So one could do dual 400s, but its not easy. You are looking at $150 per bulb for a HQI rated 400watt bulb, or something on an e-ballast that makes less light than a 250wattDE 10,000K

OR, look at a 250wattDE 10,000K. With the exception of the dismal Ushio, most make over 100 PPFD. Then, add in a couple T5s (one actinic03, and one blue+ to be fair). This should give you a PPFD well above 150 for the combo... possibly approaching 200. It really depends on the bulbs, but I could go so far as to say minimum 150, and easily over 200, maybe even as high as 250 PPFD. If you use nice bulbs like ATI blue+ bulbs and XDE 10,000Ks. The wattage is about the same too, 2x54wattT5s run about 110watts, and a 250wattDE about 300.... so 360 watts vs. the actual 425 you would expect from most 400watt 20,000Ks.

IMO, unless you go the route of 400wattHQI bulbs that you would most likely have to import by the case yourself, combining 250wattDE bulbs with T5s is a better option from the output/watt standpoint.

reeflover2 · #**596** 09/17/2006, 03:49 PM

That is some great thought. I already have 24 T5's a mixture of ATI Super Whites x 8 Blue Plus x 8 and blue specials x 8. I just don't think I am getting enough punch to the sand. How many 250 DE's would you go with. I am going to use the new SLS lumenmax reflectors. Either mogul or DE. I really don't want to use electronic ballasts as it screws with my x 10. What about using magnetic ballasts or 250 HQI ballasts? You are thinking XM 10K DE?

hahnmeister · #**597** 09/17/2006, 04:30 PM

Stick with HQI ballasts for running DE bulbs ( I would even pick that over an Icecap or other e-ballast, so no worries there)... thats what they are rated for. Operating them at a lesser output will mean they wear out faster, and cen be just as bad as overpowering them. Doing HQI's w/ 10,000K DE's will also mean you will more then likely get a good two years out of your halides, where if you were running 400s that were bluer, you would barely get a year out of them.

Go with any DE reflector that does well. The reef optics3 from SLS, lumenmax2, or my pick which would be the lumenarc DE fixture. In the past, the lumenarcs have edged out the lumenmax's in performance, and with the lumenmax's, you are paying an extra $50 ea for the black enclosure. With the lumenarc DE's you dont get the black box and save some $$$ (I assume you are not going to have the lights visible due to the size/scope of the project). You can get the lumenarcDE here for $109 on sale...
http://www.reefexotics.com/lumenarc.htm

The T5s have plenty of punch... a linear bulb will penetrate better than a point source will.

As for how many, well... you have a large tank. If you look at large tanks like Energy's, and many Japanese reefs, you will see a trend where they simply light the center, or simply 'spotlight' the areas where the corals are and leave the rest darker. This lets them have the light where they want it, and off the glass, which means less wattage used, and less cleaning algae on the glass. You might consider it with a tank your size. There is a 8'x8'x36"h tank in Chicago that uses a similar concept, but we put a skylight in over it, so it really didnt matter so much. But, we did make a 12" parimeter of T5 lights around the outside. This parimieter hasnt been used yet, as the 6'x6' skylight has been plenty so far. But this parimeter does keep alot of light off of the glass, so cleaning so far has been minimal. The T5s are even angled inwards to that the light they produce when they do get turned on will be angled inwards.

You might consider this. Where and IF you place lights depends on what you want to do with them. If you are having a central overflow, then that means you can leave out a light in that area...

Without knowing what are the viewing sides (is it 360?), I can give a cookie-cutter suggestion and you can take it from there what to move slightly or leave out. I would start with 5 250wattDE's in a cross pattern... 3wide, 3 long, across the 7' and 6' lengths of your tank, leaving the corners dark until you are sure you need them. For initial setup and until your corals need light in the corners, what's the point, right? Then, add these 4 halides in at the corners, for a 3x3 grid of 9 halides. At this point, you might also be able to remove the center halide, as you may not notice since it will have lights all around... so 8 halides in a 3x3 grid with the central one missing.

As for the T5s, the system I have seen that works best is to use a 2:1 wattage ratio of halide to T5s (blue and actinic T5s). So for every 250wattDE, use 2x54wattT5s. I would stick with 4' T5s for this, staggering them across the tank. This should mean you use about 20 T5 bulbs... not too bad really. You could do this with strategic placement of 8 and 4 bulb tek fixtures if you wanted to. Or, you could stick with just 5 of the halides, and use more T5s (sun and aquablue daylight bulbs) to fill in rather than 4 more halides. I can assure you that if you substituted 4x250watt halides with 1000watts of T5, the tank would be much brighter, heck, even just 16 more T5 bulbs (864watts) would be brighter.

I should also add that the 2:1 wattage ratio is based on 1/2 the T5s being blue+ bulbs, and 1/2 of them being actinic03s. The blue+ bulbs have almost the same intensity as many daylight (aquablue) bulbs, about 4x that of the actinics. Now, most 10,000Ks have loads of actinic already, as much or more than many 20,000K bulbs (you just dont see it because of all the other spectrums). So the actinics are somewhat for looks, and you COULD reduce the ratio of T5s needed if you decided to simply go with blue+ bulbs. The look would be very similar, and in most areas, you wouldnt even notice, but I can respect when people want actinics because of the 'pop' it can add. Perhaps using less actinics, or strategic placement for viewing would also aid with this. But if you were to use only blue+ bulbs (or minimal actinics rather than 1:1), then you could cut down from 20 T5s to 14 with the 9 halides (or 30 54wattT5s with 5 halides).

Now dont get me wrong, this isnt the 'deep blue sea' look of many 20,000Ks, but more of a 'dayblue'. Not 14,000K either. Its very blue, but has plenty of warmer spectrums as well. And like I said, corals love it. This combo makes corals look better than anything I have seen, and fast. You know how stony corals grown under T5s seem to have a glowing pastel look? And SPS grown under halides get dark and intense, but not all over? Combine those two into one and you get what Im talking about. Its unreal, and I cant seem to replicate that growth or color under any of my tanks that all happen to be either all T5 or all halide lit. So my next tank is going to be this 2:1 ratio as well.

Now even though this setup wouldnt give you the 'deep blue sea' look like all radiums/20,000Ks or something, its still very blue. BUT, all you have to do is shut off the halides, and leave the T5s on, and you get a '20,000 leagues' look of all bright purple and blue... more like a 35,000K look, lol. So you still get the blue look.

Also, this suggestion is pretty cookie-cutter. I based it on a 6'x6' grid that is 30" tall, but the extra foot for the 7' ends isnt much at all. I was just at a friends place yesterday who runs a 225g (6'x2'x30" tall) with 3x250wattDE's and 4x39wattT5s. He's using pheonix bulbs (which actually put out more than Ushio 10,000Ks) and actinic bulbs for the T5s (pheonix bulbs have tons of blue, but lack actinic), and he's able to grow anything he wants. And you would be looking at more light that this even because you would have 2x as many T5s, and be using 10,000Ks with even higher outputs than the pheonix 14,000Ks.

johns · #**598** 09/18/2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ASH
From IceCap:
If you went with our new Mogul based MH pendants, they adjust from 175, 250 or to allow for a 400 SE MH bulb.

What are these new adjustable mogul based pendants? IS there a link somewhere to more info?

ASH · #**599** 09/18/2006, 10:27 AM

johns - There's not much out there yet but we'll display them at MACNA and get a chance to show various retailers what's new and available now. The pendant hasn't changed since we added the vents on the sides for heat venting. Same top of the line reflectors. We just removed the DE hardware and replaced it with a ceramic mogul base that has three docking stations depending on the lamp length. By moving the lamp's socket, the bulb is always positioned to get the best reflective kick it can.

Cost should be the same as it was on the DE versions. We're even adding a DE 150MH, also to be shown first at MACNA.

Andy

crazzy · #**600** 09/23/2006, 02:43 AM

I am currently having quoted to build a new tank made from Jumbo sheet (dual laminated so it is 1.5" thick) Starfire. The tank will be 204" X 65" X 43" high with a 5" DSB having SPS etc. Can I literally cover this large tank with IC powered T 5's with few or no MH ?? I originally posted this to Grim Reefer on T 5's, he suggested here. Suggestions for Halide 1000's ? mix? reflector?
Thanx