my house reef (211 g.)

[Reefflections]

Hey guys what happened to the Prodibio thread here?It seems like we really got side tracked here.I'm here to learn more about saying lighting and these additives.Not bashing anyone here.I don't have any idea what you are talking about?Just enjoy reading and what people have done with the Prodibio products.Or maybe and update when it's here in the states.Anymore on that end of it?

[TryTheChi]

Hi Curt

I just strated my 9th week on Prodi, and despite having had no skimmer for a couple of weeks a while back and now the new skimmer motor is playing up - so its been off for 6 days, my NO3 and PO4 remain at zero. Just took the fluidised rowaphos off line - to see what happens with PO4 without it. I have a couple of BTAs which get fed once a week plus a decent amount of food for the fish - so there is plenty of inputs for the bac to work on.

On the coral front - the colours keep on getting stronger and growth is good - infact my calcium levels have dropped from 420 to 385 in the past week which shows growth is stong.

However one acopora colour has faded - loss of vibrancy on pink tips and maroon branches - no RTN or STN though. Will seem if it pick up before moving it. Any thoughts anyone?

Cheers

SImon

[Reefflections]

Simon
Glad to here that everything is going great.Other than that 1 acro.Are you saying it did this after you moved it.This seems to be a common thing,when moved corals in a different place.

Now what I really like to know is.I don't know if anyone can really answer this.But I was a deep sand bed user at one time.But the system finally ran into a wall,as for "old tank syndrome".Where all your corals,slowly take a decline.But how does Prodibio come into play saying " long term",with the deep sand bed.It took my system to go down hill in about 5 years.For me to get back on track,went with the barebottom.Then started the Zeo system for 6 months.Which if really hard to maintain and control.A very demanding method.But does the Prodibio system prevent this from happening "long term".As for "old tank syndrome".You have to understand,I was a Zeovit user at one time.And would hate to stress out the corals again.So as you can see why I'm a little gun shy,when it comes to something new.Just trying to read and learn as much as possible.Before any radical changes are made again.Not saying that Prodibio isn't a good product.But just trying to find out as much as I can,the long term effects of Prodibio.
Curt

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Reefflections

Now what I really like to know is.I don't know if anyone can really answer this.But I was a deep sand bed user at one time.But the system finally ran into a wall,as for "old tank syndrome".Where all your corals,slowly take a decline.But how does Prodibio come into play saying " long term",with the deep sand bed.It took my system to go down hill in about 5 years.For me to get back on track,went with the barebottom.Then started the Zeo system for 6 months.Which if really hard to maintain and control.A very demanding method.But does the Prodibio system prevent this from happening "long term".As for "old tank syndrome".You have to understand,I was a Zeovit user at one time.And would hate to stress out the corals again.So as you can see why I'm a little gun shy,when it comes to something new.Just trying to read and learn as much as possible.Before any radical changes are made again.Not saying that Prodibio isn't a good product.But just trying to find out as much as I can,the long term effects of Prodibio.
Curt

Hi Curt

Interesting question -personally, I dont like DSBs in the main tank for the reasons you describe - at some point in a closed system the detritus has to overwhelm the bed's ability to cope eventually. I notice Iwan removes the top portion of his periodically - which may extend the life of the DSB?

Whenever I have disembled a sand bed because of a house move - I'v always been surprised by the amount of filth that has accumulated - hense the remote MSB in the sump - easier to take out if the time comes.

I don't know if Prodibio would extend the life of a DSB. Theoretically it could do - based on the principle that fortnightly redosing the range of bac strains and approriate trace elements boosts the DSB's functionality. However its still a closed system and the nutrient sink dangers may well continue to be a possibility, even if over a longer time span.

You are BB now? - What do you miss from a DSB?

Interesting to hear about the Zeo experience. Was the negative effect in relation to the Zbasic 4? or the wider approach?. Did you have Zstart or start2 at the time? It seems to me that these 2 probiotic methods are different in that Zeo uses adsorbers as well as bac - while the Prodi approach is just bac. IMO the Zeo zeolites could strip out NH3 too fast for corals adaptive capacity in thier early phases and therefore suffer. There seems to be so many variables with Zeo thats its hard to attribute a reaction to an action, at least in thier first 2 phases. It seems to be a highly skilled art through observation - which needs good and maybe even personal mentoring by an experienced successful user of the system.

I tried to get the view from experienced zeo users over on that forum as to why the use of the 4 zeolites is a superior approach compared with letting the bacs do the work all the way down the chain - but the question was not answered and described as esoteric by one 'expert'. Another, sensibly said that time would tell. However - I do think this maybe the critical difference, and proposed a comparative trial - but got banned for 'shill'ing (thanks again Jon - now I understand ). That may mean nothing other than thats what he thought or it may mean that Prodi could well be a softer, more natural approach in the start up phases. Obviously this one specific zeo expert could not disput Iwan's achievements. It has been my experience that prodi has not had negative effects ( the one sps could be due to changes in lighting or flow)- costs much less than ZB3 and is easier to administer.

Intuitively - a biological solution would seem to be a more natural way to achieve v low NO3 PO4 and therefore easier for corals to adapt to. They have evolved together. ( I have used rowa phos from the start in this tank so there has never been a PO4 problem and therefore no adaptation issues in relation to PO4 levels) For this reason I dont see Prodi as a radical change - less radical than changing GAG after a month. More adding help than subtracting polution artificially. More like taking omega 3 to prevent alzheimers rather than taking pharacuticals to cope with the symptoms ( actually not sure that analogy works - lol - but hope you get the drift of the thought ).

However if one has a tank full of rare corals and a bad experience with Zeo - its understandable that one would be risk averse Is it possible to set up a small test tank and try it out with a couple of test corals?

Will be interesting to hear the views of the more established prodi users.

A question for Iwan - over on the other forum you said that you dose the zeo products on the basis of observations of coral appearance rather than the manufacturers dosing recomendations. What are the observations that prompt dosing which specific additives please?

Many thanks

SImon

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by Reefflections
I was on RC last night.And came across a thread about URI bulbs.They are coming out in about 2 months.With their version of the T/5 bulbs.Especially for the ones looking for length.Not sure what their length will be?But you might take a look and see,what's coming on the scene in the next few months.Just wanted to pass this on here.I'm sure and email to them,could answer your question for you and others here.
Curt

Do you have a link for this thread?

[tangblack]

How far is the Prodibio forum? so we can discuss this in the sponsors section.

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Klay
There is a bacteria product from Canada called reefresh. it's available at polyplab.com



i've used their reef-roids product for a couple months with wicked results but i've only just started using their bacterial product. the few people i've talked to who tested out the product say it's phenomenal.


Water has DEFINITELY cleared up. i don't have a phosphate test kit that will test low enough to see what my exact phosphate is but I'm hoping it will colour up my SPS

Thanks for the links - any pics of tanks that use it pls?

Cheers

Simon

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by tangblack
How far is the Prodibio forum? so we can discuss this in the sponsors section.

Hi tangblack

It was robwsup who is importing it into the US I think - I imagine he'll set up a sponsors forum in time. (The only thing I dont like about those is that they seem to be full of product fans??)

In the meantime I'd be interested to hear of your experiences with Prodi and other aspects here as you also have great coloration and a years experience with these bacs. You have great results and use a combination of other products.

Iwan attributed his results to a wider range of factors than just prodi -

The Polyp Lab products maybe a suitable alternative to the prodi ones?

Cheers

Simon

[robwsup]

We will be setting up the Prodibio Sponsor forum in about a month. Products should be entering the US, as soon as next week. Insurance issues, customs, shipping etc, are all concerns that are being finalized this week. Look for it soon!

[Reefflections]

Simon
Wow you hit with me with a lot of questions here.And will try to do my best here.
1.You asked me if I'm Bare bottom.Well sort of.....I have a wrasse,and a cuke.The fish needs the sand for sleeping quarters.As for the fish,he keeps any Acro flatworms in check,that might enter the system.I have a 240 gallon reef,and only 1 bag of sand.Which runs across the front only.So I can siphone sand when water changes are done every 2 weeks.I "don't" really like the look of BB.We try to do what we see in the ocean.And when I see a tank like that,it looks like something is missing.Also like the sand look more natural appearence.Also the sand reflects light back into the system.I was also wondering saying you have a deep sand bed,could you pull it out after say 1 year,and just replace it.Or does this totally,threw the balance off with Prod?You mentioned your sad bed is seperate from your main system?Well a lot of us can't do that?No room,also in sump skimmer in there also.And there is a lot of folks run their system this way.
You ask about Zeo start 1 and start 2.When I was in it,start 1 was the only product they had at that time.Then Start 2 came into the picture.And all the Zeo folks went to the Start 2.Reason was it was a safer product to use.But myself and a good friend of mine still had problems?There must been a reason for Start 2 to be developed.There must have been,very bad results to come out with start 2?
2.Getting back to the sand been issue.I really wonder now,being off Zeo now.If this really comes into play with the sand bed.Yes there are Zeo users with "no" sand beds.Yet others do have sand beds.I really begin to wonder now.If Zeo would have been a lot easier,if a sand bed was in place.The reason why I question this is.It seems the sand bed would pull in the additives that's being added.When there is no sand bed,kinda of getting the feeling a really radical approach.Because once you dose,you have just the rock,that's it.I could be wrong here.But wonder if it's easier to control your system?
3.You mentioned Coral appearence,and manf. guide lines.The guide lines and manf,can be confusing.With Zeo you have to know exact water volume to start with.Again you have to guess,when a system is already running.You have to watch your panes,for film build up(over dose).STN and RTN on corals,coral thinning(tips),loss of color.And this also depends on your bio load.When you have any of these signs,you had to adjust your dosages,on what they tell you.It just isn't written down in stone.A little of this,and a little of that.Then tell us what you see?It was driving me crazy.Then once you dose,your stuck with it !And hope for the best.Again I'm not against Zeo at all.These a lot of folks had great results.And I wish I could have kept going.You just have to have a lot of patience.Zeo is probably a very good product to use.Like you said with Zeo,and even Prod you just might be better,to have a small tank.To really understand how these products really work.Also the Zeo products are VERY strong.As you know Simon,by adding AA,CV,PFI.
I hope this helps some Simon,and other folks here.Again not bashing Zeo.Just trying to point out some of the things,that went wrong with me.That's why I'm on this thread,just for a safer method,with same results.
Curt

[tangblack]

In the meantime I'd be interested to hear of your experiences with Prodi and other aspects here as you also have great coloration and a years experience with these bacs.

I have had the product for over 8 months and have been dosing Biodigest. biotum, reef booster,
I have not been dosing all the time as i keep forgetting to add it sometimes,
What i have done is to start dosing the product every week,
my tank is 2500L
I started last week and just added the second dose. I spoke to Prodibio in france and they told me to dose weekly .
I have stopped rowaphos and only run carbon.
I also add a sml dose of aktiv bak. this is like zeofood a carbon source to feed the bacteria, i dont add much.
I also run tunze zeolite in a canister filter. about 1000l/h flow.
Today i did a test and my po4 is .024 on a merck test kits and nitrates as about 10-20ppm, salifert. very hard to read.
My levels have gone up as i feed alot as i have many fish,

here are some pics,




The tricolour is a very hard coral to colour up as it has been brown for a long time. today i notice i can see some blue coming thru so good news so far,
i will take a pic next week to compare.


Iwan what camera do you use to take pics of your tank??

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by Reefflections
Simon
Also the sand reflects light back into the system.I was also wondering saying you have a deep sand bed,could you pull it out after say 1 year,and just replace it.Or does this totally,threw the balance off with Prod?

Hi Curt - thanks for the info - I only have a MSB - 3 inches in total depth - first layer very fine aragamud - next layer miracle mud - from previous system to seed the sand bed then a thicker layer of 'live' aragonite. This is in the sump and has a floor space of 20% of the the main BB tank (which I covered in white perspex to reflect light back up) . I also have a low LR/water volumn ratio of about 0.56/1 Since dosing prodi the NO3 is rock solid zero using both sera and salifert kits. I conclude from that that I dont need more sand or rock for the bacs to live in for the bioload.

If I experience problems in the future that I can isolate to the sand bed - I would take it out or replace it gradually - that way the changes would be slow - I can't see how that would disturb Prodi functioning as there are fresh innoculations every other week.

[/QUOTE] .There must have been,very bad results to come out with start 2? [/B][/QUOTE]

I'v seen that said by a few people - I dose Start 2 on a daily basis but at half the recommended amount (0.5 ml per 100ltr) and the film on the glass has reduced. I notice tangblack also doses another brand of bac carbon daily too.

[/QUOTE].Getting back to the sand been issue.I really wonder now,being off Zeo now.If this really comes into play with the sand bed.Yes there are Zeo users with "no" sand beds.Yet others do have sand beds.I really begin to wonder now.If Zeo would have been a lot easier,if a sand bed was in place.The reason why I question this is.It seems the sand bed would pull in the additives that's being added.When there is no sand bed,kinda of getting the feeling a really radical approach.Because once you dose,you have just the rock,that's it.I could be wrong here.But wonder if it's easier to control your system? [/B][/QUOTE].

IMO - appart from the benefits of aragonite sand bed buffering the PH and adding a small contribution to CA/ALK/Str, and hosting a source of zoo plancton - if there is enough LR in the system to for biofilms to develop - that would be able to handel the bio load (depending on food inputs). As I say I have a very low LR/water capacity ratio and the readings are fine.


[/QUOTE].Also the Zeo products are VERY strong.As you know Simon,by adding AA,CV,PFI. [/B][/QUOTE].

Yes - I dose conservatively with these non ZB3 Zeo products - and have had no negative experiences so far- infact given 0 NO3 PO4 levels I understand these (or alternative) food and elements are important for coral health. Tangblack is doing an experiment for a month just using Prodi products - will be interesting to see his results.

On the risk front - we'v yet to hear Iwans opinion - but so far tangblack's experience is good as is mine - Prodi does what it says. No STN, RTN, or bleaching.

Curt - just out of curiosity - have you any pics you could post pls?

Cheers

Simon

[Floridiot]

I've started dosing Prodibio and I am posting updates on my thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=1

[doody]

Tangblack, what lighting are you useing?

[doody]

I'm planning a 125L sps tank, and I'm trying to decide what kind of lights to go with. Iwans tank looks awsome with T-5 only. Then you got this tank.......

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hlight=Italian

..... thats running 10k MH only and is awsome. Iwan uses pobidio and the other is Zeovit. I'm wondering if Iwan would have the same results and coloring if he would've used MH. And vise versa for the Zeovit guy.

[jnarowe]

that is a cool tank. I have been given grief for my lightling design but I think it will be really nice. Maybe I will have to supplement with some white light but that is a wait-and-see situation.

[carib]

after reefbuster my water is geting realy cloudy.Is this normal?And acro's sliming very quickly.Any help from users apretiated.

[Floridiot]

Originally posted by carib
after reefbuster my water is geting realy cloudy.Is this normal?And acro's sliming very quickly.Any help from users apretiated.

I only dosed one vial of ReefBooster in my 720 liter system about 55% normal dosage. This caused my water to get somewhat cloudy, but did not cause any sliming from my acros. My water cleared up within 24 hours.

Reefbooster has a very strong odor. I have an open topped aquarium. My house stunk for this same 24 hours.

[iwan]

Originally posted by carib
after reefbuster my water is geting realy cloudy.Is this normal?And acro's sliming very quickly.Any help from users apretiated.

The effect that the water becomes cloudy for 1-2 hours is normal. But i never heard that the corals increase the production of slimy substances after the dosage.

[smalltime]

Iwan
Dumb question - How long can you go without cleaning your glass?
You tank is amazing!

[iwan]

Originally posted by smalltime
Iwan
Dumb question - How long can you go without cleaning your glass?
You tank is amazing!

I clean my front glass twice per week. That's it!

[doody]

Originally posted by doody
I'm planning a 125L sps tank, and I'm trying to decide what kind of lights to go with. Iwans tank looks awsome with T-5 only. Then you got this tank.......

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hlight=Italian

..... thats running 10k MH only and is awsome. Iwan uses pobidio and the other is Zeovit. I'm wondering if Iwan would have the same results and coloring if he would've used MH. And vise versa for the Zeovit guy.

Iwan, do you think you would have gotten the same results and coloring if he would've used MH.

[iwan]

Originally posted by doody
Iwan, do you think you would have gotten the same results and coloring if he would've used MH.

NO, NEVER!
I used MH's before T5 and the colors are much better under T5!

[TryTheChi]

Originally posted by carib
after reefbuster my water is geting realy cloudy.Is this normal?And acro's sliming very quickly.Any help from users apretiated.

I'v used reef booster 9 times now and the tank gets cloudy and the skimmer bubbles are suppressed for a few hours (due to the fatty content. I'v not had the sps sliming at all. How are they now? How large is your tank?

Cheers
SImon

[ps8411]

Iwan or Simon,

Just recieved the BioDigest and Bioptium products from France today. My 175g tank is nearing the end of the rock curing process with Nitrates climbing up to 5 ppm. Have a DSB of about 3" right now and will increase it to 4" later this week....

Will begin adding BioDigest and Bioptium to tank in a few minutes. Do you guys recomend turning off my Skimmer now or it does it really right now at this early stage? ...Until I start using the ReefBooster when the tank is populated with more SPS frags....?

Any dosing methods you would like to share would be great...

TIA,

Scott
PS8411