Build and Progress of my RSM Nano Tank - Page 20

LaurentSeattle · #**476** 11/01/2007, 09:28 PM

Month 4 - Week 18 - Day 126 - Thursday November 1st - Around 7pm

- Did nothing in the tank, except the daily routine...

- Started a little side project at work: The equivalent of NanoPlanner but for the PC, without ads and a bunch of planned improvements... The name is HydroPlanning, yes I also drive fast cars

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Reefmack: I have lost my big rock of small green and brown zoa polyps. However, the rock came a bit broken and some little pieces are growing elsewhere in the tank. The rock you mention is somewhat in bad shap and very slowly decaying.

Hodge:

Ever since I started the tank, I have been battling the pest algae:

- First was a massive invasion of the green hairy ones: I had to remove almost all rocks, scrub them and make a few massive (40%) water changes. That worked: Algae was feeding on itself and low lighting was not helping at all. Such a strong treatment was possible because at the time, there was no corals or fishes, only snails. First battle was won in about one week.

- Then came more insidious stuff: Cyano, Bryopsis and red hairy algae. I won a second battle using PhosBan to eliminate high PO4 and an additional powerhead. On top of that, regular water changes and meticulous cleaning of the mechanical filters. This cleared cyano for good and limited the growth of all pest algae.

- But... Third round: Still quite a lot of bryopsis, red hairy algae and very little coralline: I looked into supplementing Calcium and adjust ALK. I have been supplementing Ca and Buffer but with poor results with the test kits but still there is progress: Less pest algae, coralline is here and a small halimeda is showing up.

- Now, after a few week reaching this new step, it seems like the tank is making no progress even when I remove as much as I can of these algae. Needless to say that I am still very meticulous with mechanical filtration and water changes, but no progress... Very fustrating.

I am now looking into supplementing Magnesium, (See link I posted a little while ago) hoping to get rid of bryopsis this way and correct the "bad" ALK/Ca readings I am consistently getting.

mikellini · #**477** 11/01/2007, 09:46 PM

Who knew this was all so complicated?

Man, I feel for you... I really like your tank though. Made a ton of progress. And thanks for turning me onto that nanoplanner widget, I have a mac

Have you thought about setting up a little macroalgae refugium in one of the back chambers? This might help with controlling the algae in the display. The reason this works (in its simplest form, as I understand it) is that if you get a very fast growing algae like chaetomorpha growing back there, it actually outcompetes the pest algae for nutrients. You could combine this with a reduced photoperiod to 'starve' the pest algae out of existence

Reefmack · #**478** 11/02/2007, 06:24 AM

Hi Laurent. Have you thought about trying one of the 2 part Ca/Alk systems? If you caught my readings in the other thread it has improved my situation since adding them daily for a week, rather than "once in a while". I got several one ounce plastic sample bottles from work, and the required amount measured into a week's worth of bottles marked A & B, with some RO water in each, and just add one of each to the back compartment every morning (about 15 minutes between the A & B additions) before leaving for work. That eliminated the time consuming task of measuring the amount each day, follows the recommendation of adding it in the morning, and helps keep me on schedule with the daily dosing.

On the algae, although my nitrate, phosphate and silica readings are all zero, I seem to be getting more small patches of hair algae since taking the chaeto out of the display tank a couple weeks ago. I'm going to try getting some more Saturday, and maybe some other macro as well. It may be more than coincidence that I've had some junk algae reappear since removing the chaeto (which also provided a place for pods to hide in). You might want to try some chaeto & see if things improve. Mikellini has a good point, but putting chaeto in the back chamber may not be the best place in the stock RSM.

LaurentSeattle · #**479** 11/02/2007, 11:00 PM

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 127 - Friday November 2nd - Around 9pm

- Did the usual stuff: White pad, clean the glass, topoff...

- The Kent Marine Tech M supplement arrived today: I carefully read the instructions and directions and immediately started with a 10ml daily dose. I will do so for 7 days. Tonight, obviously no changes, improvements or side effects to report.

- GSP continue to grow quite fast and one stalk of Xenia is splitting into 3 (three!) new ones... Amazing!

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Reefmack and Mikellini: I have some chaeto growing in the tank. It is located behing the rocks but gets some light and decent current. Its growth is quite slow but regular but unfortunately so far has had no effect on pest algae growth.

Reefmack: So far, I have been using the products shipping with the Red Sea Starter Kit: Ca supplement and their "Success" buffer product.

Mikellini: I have a Mac at home too... But I earn my paycheck on PC stuff...

LaurentSeattle · #**480** 11/03/2007, 10:34 PM

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 128 - Saturday November 3rd - Around 9pm

- Second Day of the Magnesium treatment with Kent Marine Tech-M: Tonight a big patch of bryopsis is just GONE!!! I am not sure if this is just coincidential or truly consequential... Anyway, the white pad caught quite a lot of decaying algae.

- Did a 2 gallons water change. I am going to visit the LFS tomorrow and I want best possible conditions for eventual new arrivals.

- And I did not forget the usual stuff: White pad, clean the glass, hand-picked some pest algae...

reefman13 · #**481** 11/03/2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 128 - Saturday November 3rd - Around 9pm

- Second Day of the Magnesium treatment with Kent Marine Tech-M: Tonight a big patch of bryopsis is just GONE!!! I am not sure if this is just coincidential or truly consequential... Anyway, the white pad caught quite a lot of decaying algae.

- Did a 2 gallons water change. I am going to visit the LFS tomorrow and I want best possible conditions for eventual new arrivals.

- And I did not forget the usual stuff: White pad, clean the glass, hand-picked some pest algae...

That's awesome! But means nothing if there aren't any pics

Make sure to take some of the new arrivals!

LaurentSeattle · #**482** 11/03/2007, 11:14 PM

Here is a Full Tank Shot:

The big patch of bryopsis was on the right side and cannot be seen on the front view, but still... overall, this looks better than a few days ago. Well... I believe so.

LaurentSeattle · #**483** 11/04/2007, 07:25 PM

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 129 - Sunday November 4th - Around 4pm

- Did my usual cleaning routine.

- Gave up on the idea to visit the LFS because the Gramma is not behaving so well again, hiding, easily scared. I even noticed he once tried to rub his body to a rock. Not good.

- Gave up tonight on supplementing Tech M (Magnesium) for the same reason. So far, I have supplemented a bit more (20% more) than the recommended weekly dose and I have done that very gradually.

- All other animals seem to do very well, including the sea star and the shrimp that I have been able to see yesterday night under the moonlights.

- Tested the water:

pH: 8.2
NO2, NO3, PO4: All zero.
Ca: 470ppm (quite high)
Alk (Red Sea): Between the Low limit and the medium Normal colors (This test sucks!)
Alk (Salifert): 8.6 (rising)

Reefmack · #**484** 11/04/2007, 08:11 PM

Hi Laurent. If you see more signs that the Magnesium really helped, let us know. Hopefully the gramma will come around soon and the rubbing against a rock wasn't a sign of ich. Yes - the Red Sea Alk test is useless - I'd use the Salifert & not waste the time on the Red Sea test. I skipped a day on my 2 part Ca/Alk supplement - my Ca was up to 470 also, but my Alk did get up to 9.6. I decided to now cut back to 1/2 dose and test Ca & Alk next weekend. FYI - if you get a 2 part, you can adjust as needed on the dosing based on the Ca & Alk levels. You may want to consider one so you can adjust the alk up without raising the Ca to very high levels.

LaurentSeattle · #**485** 11/05/2007, 11:57 PM

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 130 - Monday November 5th - Around 9pm

To answer Reefmack's question, Magnesium supplementation has had mixed results so far...

On the positive side:

- Pest algae growth has significantly slowed down.
- Coralline growth is on the rise.
- Xenia and GPS are doing very well.

On the negative side:

- The Gramma does not like it at all. Still hiding and rubbing on the rocks. The wrasse and the rainford's goby do not seem to care at all.
- It seems like Mg addition has badly disturbed Ca chemistry: I am getting a 480ppm Ca reading tonight after having done a 3g water change... It has never been that high before: It is even beyond the range of the test: I am extrapoling the scale. Maybe, it makes no sense to do so.

As mentionned earlier, I already stopped Mg supplementation and I am considering another small water change tomorrow to bring water parameters closer to normality.

And, yes... Still regularly cleaning glass, mechanical filters and skimmer.

Overall:

Cleaner tank but one sick fish... Not good.

pbukow · #**486** 11/06/2007, 02:19 AM

Personally I don't think that 470 for calcium is that high. I used to run my 55 mixed tank with Ca ranging btwn 460-490 with no ill effects. Granted the coralline, spawing cerith snails, and sps frags would pull it down by 50 in about a week. I also liked to keep the Alk pretty high too, 11-12DKH if i could. I'm pretty sure that the higher the Alk is the faster the animals in your tank could process calcium into calcium carbonate.

Just let it come down on its own and keep an eye on it until it improves. I love your thread by the way, very cool to see a tank progress from nothing. Keep it up.

LaurentSeattle · #**487** 11/06/2007, 03:37 PM

Month 5 - Week 19 - Day 131 - Tuesday November 6th - Around Noon

Thanks pbukow.

A quick update: the Royal Gramma is out today, looks nice and has been eating with appetite... Phewwww...

LaurentSeattle · #**488** 11/10/2007, 12:13 AM

Month 5 - Week 20 - Day 134 - Friday November 9th - Around 9pm

Things are not improving very much here...

- The gramma is still not behaving, again... Hiding, rubbing...
- The feather duster has lost his crown today and hopefully still alive in his tube.

On the other hand, Xenia are pumping and growing, GPS growing and multiplying....

I don't understand what's going on.

I will test all water parameters tomorrow morning.

Reefmack · #**489** 11/10/2007, 09:33 AM

Hi Laurent. I can't explain the gramma's behavior. I would think that if the rubbing were a bad sign that something would have shown up by now - ich spots or something? Maybe get a cleaner shrimp - if the gramma allows it the cleaner may pick off any parasites that aren't really visible? Just a thought.

I gave up on feather dusters after having 2 die. One made an attempt to come back, poking out with a smaller crown for a bit. I think one of mine may have been stung to death by a neighboring Euphyllia. I'm not sure that the proper food is available in a tank for them to live long.

MAXreefer · #**490** 11/10/2007, 10:24 AM

Laurent,
have been out of town for a while and trying to catch up on all the postings here.
Here is what I am doing:
Had also some issues with the Alk level being to low and started using the 2 part Ca/Alk supplement from ESV. As Reefmack mentioned also you really have to use it on a daily basis when you start using it. Once your levels are ok you can start adding it every second day and so on.
My LFS recommended to support this also with adding Magnesium. I just started this and will keep you updated with the results.

Michael
MAXreefer

Reefmack · #**491** 11/10/2007, 11:13 AM

I just ordered the Kent magnesium additive and will start dosing when it arrives. Laurent - FYI - I applied the "Stop hair algae" treatment yesterday but see no sign that it did anything yet. I may try it again today.

LaurentSeattle · #**492** 11/10/2007, 03:58 PM

Month 5 - Week 20 - Day 135 - Saturday November 10th - Around 1pm

- Tested the water:
- NO2, NO3, PO4: All zero.
- pH: 8.2
- ALK: Normal (Red Sea)
- CA: 490ppm (beyond limits of the test, extrapolating the titration scale!)

All the above after a 3g water change and testing two hours after.
It seems like the Magnesium additions are pulling Calcium out of nowhere!!!
I dont understand... Therefore, I am planning yet another 3g water change for tomorrow hoping to bring some normality to the water chemistry.

The gramma seems to like it and seems much happier after the water change. The feather duster is still in his tube, he has shown his mouth this morning before retreating again.

All other animals seem to do just fine. Pest algae is receding a bit and coralline is growing everywhere.

ReefMack, MaxReefer: thanks for the info and support. Be careful with adding Mg: I have added little, a just a bit more than the weekly recommended dose, doing that progressively and I am getting a sick fish and weird water test results. There are some positive news on the algae front, though.

Reefmack · #**493** 11/10/2007, 07:04 PM

Laurent - thanks for the caution on the magnesium. We'll wait & see what kind of results MAXreefer gets also. I didn't try the Stop Hair Algae again today - instead I got out the tweezers & did some picking. Very difficult to remove it all though. I hope to see some results with the magnesium, but I'll keep an eye on the fish & corals when I start dosing.

Iostream · #**494** 11/10/2007, 07:48 PM

You might also look into something called Marine S.A.T. It is a bacterial additive my LFS recommended, which is supposed to be completely reef safe and combats hair algae as well as a few other pests. I have purchased some, but still looking for more information before I dose it into the tank.

pbukow · #**495** 11/10/2007, 08:04 PM

Are you feeding the inverts in your tank anything like phytoplankton or cyclopeeze or any other filter feeder food like that. Feather dusters have no zoaxanthelle and rely completely on added foods to survive.

Reefmack · #**496** 11/10/2007, 08:16 PM

Iostream - I just did a search on the Marine S.A.T and got a lot of mixed reviews. Some say it did nothing, some say it seemed to cut the algae growth, some said it decreased their pods, and one said it did reduce the algae and it then came back even worse. Since it's a bacterial additive I doubt it would do any real harm, and at worst might do nothing at all. If you try it let us know.

MAXreefer · #**497** 11/12/2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefmack
Laurent - thanks for the caution on the magnesium. We'll wait & see what kind of results MAXreefer gets also. I didn't try the Stop Hair Algae again today - instead I got out the tweezers & did some picking. Very difficult to remove it all though. I hope to see some results with the magnesium, but I'll keep an eye on the fish & corals when I start dosing.

I am adding Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium now for a while but just dosing ONCE a week.
So far it helped to raise calcium and Alk to the desired level. All my fish are happy as ever and no complications.
Reading the information about this product it states that it contains NO ammonia. This is a common contaminant in many liquid magnesium supplements on the market.

LaurentSeattle and Reefmack: What products are you using?

Michael
MAXreefer

Reefmack · #**498** 11/12/2007, 09:22 PM

MAXreefer - I ordered the Kent Marine Tech M. In the list of ingredients it doesn't list ammonia or ammonium, but lists several other trace elements. Strangely it does list copper though. The only list of ingredients I can find on the Seachem site for the Reef Advantage Magnesium is that it contains magnesium, chloride and sulfate salts, but I have a feeling there are traces of other things as well, and maybe even copper as well. I haven't received mine yet so haven't started any dosing.

Laurent - if you're adding the Kent Tech M, what dosage are you adding?

MAXreefer · #**499** 11/12/2007, 10:46 PM

Here is an interesting article about adding Magnesium:

Article

Michael
MAXreefer

Reefmack · #**500** 11/13/2007, 08:54 AM

Thanks MAXreefer - good article. There was a link in that one to another interesting article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

And to quote from that one..... "There are a variety of commercial supplements for magnesium. Those supplements made by ESV, Seachem, and Kent are quite popular, although I’ve not seen any detailed analyses of them. Assuming they are what they claim to be, they are fine products to use, even for large increases in magnesium. I’ve used the ESV supplement, along with ones that I’ve made myself. "