Feeding Large Predators, Please Read - Page 2

EdKruzel · #26 08/03/2004, 08:28 AM

Give it the remainder of the week before going to live foods.

Try glass shrimp if you have to take the live route.

Ed

xxaquanutxx · #27 08/03/2004, 09:18 AM

One thing that I believe everyone should do before buying thier fish from the LFS is to watch thier fish eat at the LFS. That way you have seen first hand what it eats, how it eats and it will have a full belly.

EdKruzel · #28 08/03/2004, 09:54 AM

Good point; you do want to see a fish eat at the LFS before purchase, however not with a "full belly".

Once satisfied (diet) a fish needs to relax and digest; capture and transport to our home systems is very stressful.

If you observe your new specimen eat a full meal, simply have your LFS hold it over night and pick it up the following day.

Ed

xxaquanutxx · #29 08/03/2004, 10:00 AM

Now that I didnt know

jimmyrickson · #30 08/25/2004, 02:34 PM

See, it seems you imply the LFS is at fault for the fuzzy's lack of appetite. Its only been THREE DAYS, and you've not mentioned anything of you water parameters versus the store's, acclimation scheme, etc. Y'all are so quick to blame, defame, and verbally maim LFS employees... ITS NOT RIGHT, dammit! Lemme give you a tip, don't always ask for to talk with the owner ... uh yeah, he's out to get as much money as as possible with considerations to keeping you as a customer coming almost exclusively in the form of silver-tongued presention...

cfd3lsd · #31 08/27/2004, 08:41 PM

jimmyrickson,
Talk about over reaction...Read my post again, I said that the owner advise me not to purchase a more expensive fish that was only eating live food, instead he recommend this fish. In other words, I did not feel like I was being taken or duped by the lfs owner. Keep your unwanted, off-topic tips to yourself.

On a separate note, thanks to all who provided me with helpful information. My dwarf-lion is doing great. He eats frozen krill like crazy. He will only eat the shrimp with the heads left on. I think he likes to look his prey in the eyes before inhaling it.

xxaquanutxx · #32 08/27/2004, 08:46 PM

it doesnt look like he was implying anything to me

M.Dandaneau · #33 08/27/2004, 10:00 PM

The "heds on" point that he brought up is often very important if not key to success in switching over from live foods.
Many to most predatory animals that consume their prey whole do so head first and for some very important reasons.
If a fish is swallowed tail first, then the spines iin the fins come up and stick into the mouth and palate, where if swallowed head first the fins fold neatly and it's a smooth process.
Additionally, most prey can't go backwards, thus predators position themsrlves slightly to the front so that they can seize it the second it starts to move.
Predators can't afford to waste energy in useless pursuit or they'd be burning more fuel than they make from eating it.
If you take frozen silversides and cut the head at a 45 degree angle, front to back, you'll end up with what could be mistaken for a live small fish, a long strip with the eyes in front that's only 1/4 the size of a whole silverside and much more correct for juvenile predators.
I've actually gone so far as to "paint" eyes on the tail section with a magic marker and had it work.

ghostbear29 · #34 09/16/2004, 02:22 PM

so now our fish ingest majic marker dye? What the heck? Please tell me it ain't so!

zemuron114 · #35 09/24/2004, 03:12 AM

I feed all my aggressives fish, crabs, shrimp i catch from the ocean. hand cought with nets with a friend who has 2 8 inch porc puffers. I catch dozens of fidlers for my eel, and grass shrimp and small fish for lion and puffer and grouper.

they love me!!1

butterfly_cheeks · #36 10/07/2004, 11:20 PM

I got a tank full of ich from a couple feeder fish.

Putawaywet · #37 10/25/2004, 02:17 AM

FWIW, I had the opportunity to observe a necropsy on a Voltan Lion that had succumbed to apparent natural causes. To everyone's surprise the liver cross sections uncovered an abundance of fatty deposits within the tissue.

This animal as well as it's tankmakes were fed 6-7 days/week on a mixed diet that consisted of alternating days of raw shrimp, clam and capelin. Needless to say, everyone in the tank appeared fat and happy with the emphesis on fat.

Post necropsy the diet was changed to a couple days of shrimp or clam, followed by a day or two of large krill, followed by a day of fasting.

Several years after the change in diet all fish have slimmed down significantly and there have been no additional losses that can be attributed to nutrition issues.

So, not only is it import what you feed to your animals, but the "how much" and "how often" plays a major part in the equation as well.

Brett

EdKruzel · #38 10/30/2004, 10:03 PM

Brett,
Was there any signs of fat along the intestinal tract?

Active lions should receive only enough food to cause a noticeable bulge in the abdomen.
I would recommend feedings of three times a week.
Non-active or lions in small confines can be reduced to feeding once a week with occasional feedings of twice a week.

When I ran an Aquatic Rescue, lions were the number one saltwater inheritance.
Many would lay lethargic and not eat for weeks (some nearly a month) before thinning and becoming active.

Ed

ghostbear29 · #39 11/02/2004, 11:58 AM

ok, so for our smaller friends, everybody says mysid shrimp are the way to go. But they are a freshwater species. does this negate the shrimp or what?

orosepaul · #40 11/18/2004, 06:24 PM

Hello,
My name is Paul, I am a brand new owner of a juvnile Snowflake Moray Eel. It is only about six inches long, but seems to be afraid of the feeding probe. I have read and been told that hand feeding it is a big no - no. I have also tried feeding it the frozen krill meat, but prefers to grab the chunks of meat as it floats to him. How long will it take before it can be feed by a probe?

EdKruzel · #41 11/20/2004, 01:56 PM

Paul,
[welcome]

Feeding by hand is a No-No because of accidents; eels have poor eye sight, your fingers will smell like bait and look as such.

There is no set time for the eel to begin feeding from a stick. Once it begins to feel comfortable and safe in its environment it will start; have patience.

Snowflakes are not piscivores (fish eaters), to remain healthy and happy feed it crustaceans, shrimp, crab, etc...

Good Luck,
Ed

Mad Scientist · #42 12/10/2004, 01:20 PM

I'm glad this article is here (and this thread discussing it), proprer diet is so important in keeping healthy and colorful SW fish.

For me, I'm a big mysis guy - it makes a large part of the diet for most of fish. I soak it in garlic, zoe and selcon.

Mad Scientist · #43 12/10/2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Putawaywet
FWIW, I had the opportunity to observe a necropsy on a Voltan Lion that had succumbed to apparent natural causes. To everyone's surprise the liver cross sections uncovered an abundance of fatty deposits within the tissue.

This animal as well as it's tankmakes were fed 6-7 days/week on a mixed diet that consisted of alternating days of raw shrimp, clam and capelin. Needless to say, everyone in the tank appeared fat and happy with the emphesis on fat.

Post necropsy the diet was changed to a couple days of shrimp or clam, followed by a day or two of large krill, followed by a day of fasting.

Several years after the change in diet all fish have slimmed down significantly and there have been no additional losses that can be attributed to nutrition issues.

So, not only is it import what you feed to your animals, but the "how much" and "how often" plays a major part in the equation as well.

Brett

Is it clear that diet and death by a "fatty" liver are directly realted? I would think that a number of conditions could cause fatty accumulation in the liver?

Were you having a rash of deaths from fatty livers (which then stopped when the diet was changed) or was the lion the only one?

I've very concerned about the health of my lions and I would interested in any additional information you could provide.

In the wild, I frequently observe "obese" fish - so I'm leary about placing judgment on a fish's appearance based on how i think they should look.

With a background in both commerical and "recrecation" fish breeding, it's not a surprise that I consider myself to be a very heavy feeder. I've been able to keep a number of my fish alive for over 7 years (and counting) but I don't want to loss any at 8 years due to something like this.

jdav · #44 02/02/2005, 11:05 AM

sorry if i missed it in the article or thread, but if you don't mind spendng the money on feeding your fish live prey are damsels and asst. shrimp okay to feed them?

EdKruzel · #45 02/02/2005, 11:28 AM

That is fine; however damsels are quite crafty, before dumping one in a tank for a larger fish to eat, cut a fin off or a piece of the tail.
The wounded fish will have less chance of finding cover and the erratic swimming behavior will entice a feeding response.

Ed

aquaticjack · #46 02/21/2005, 11:43 AM

Great Article I would have to strongly agree with Feeding Goldfish causing long term issues. Damsels are a bit more costly however better in the long run for the preidtor I have had a few large preditors that it took awhile to train to eat other things I have a large tessalata eel now that I am having that issue with but eventually it to will eat its natural diet..

unleashed13 · #47 03/12/2005, 02:24 AM

hello everyone I am new to this forum.I have 2 volitan lions sep tanks of course one is a juvenile 3-4 inches the other is an adult aprox 8 -10inches. after alot of reading and resarch but maily due to dr f marini I decided to offer my adult lion live food.after hrs of research I found that other than expencive chromis, black mollies were my best choice.I feed all of my fish a wide variety of foods mainly frozen prepared foods the mollies i keep in a seperate tank i am acclimating them to salt.to maintain nutritonal value of these live feeders they are also given a variety of diet such as cyclopseeze, veggie flakes and emerald entrees.also marine vitamin suppliments for all of my fish and garlic extreme with every feeding .these feeders are mainly for my panther grouper and the lion.they get the mollies once a week i will place 6 or so in the tank with in seconds they are eaten.but these are not used as main diet.their reg diet includes shrimp, squid ,scallops and krill. I don't reccomend any fresh water fish period especially goldfish. I do house 2 striped damels in the main tank they have been in the tank for 2 yrs.the lion pay no attention to them at all

Hockeyben51 · #48 06/07/2005, 04:01 PM

I have a question, i live near areas that have an unlimited amount of minows and i am able to catch them reuglary becasue i do alot of sw fishing, but i want to know if i can feed these minows to my future trigger(s)? is this safe since these are saltwater fish?

EdKruzel · #49 06/07/2005, 11:06 PM

It's great for all the wild triggers in those waters; what can be better than Mother Nature!!!

By all means feed natural live foods when you can.

Ed

unleashed13 · #50 06/11/2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdKruzel
It's great for all the wild triggers in those waters; what can be better than Mother Nature!!!

By all means feed natural live foods when you can.

Ed

well unfortunately although its a cheep way to feed it most likely isnt the best way to feed.because minows are fresh water fish their diets are much different than salt water fish .this could result in malnutrition for your fish.also polutants from your lakes could contaminate your stock resulting in illness or death.I would highly recomend thinking long and hard on this before taking the risk of killing off your fish.