Am I the only one feeling left out?

[northbay-reefer]

I think the BAR members are doing a great job mixing things up, the Rare swap is one of those cool idea. Currently, I dont have too many rare stuff to trade So I didnt get to go, but in time I think I will be able to aquire some of those rare pieces. There are several ways to get them, one of the best way is to get to know the club members maybe buy some from different people in the club(this is generally a much cheaper way to go) and make trades, side trades, group trades, you name it. I can honestly say that so far all of my rare corals came from Bar club members and Northcoast club members. As long as you are generous with your trades and gives, people will return the favor.

I dont think the Elite members with rare corals are looking down on anyone, they are just trying to swap rare for rare to get a fair trade for what they have to widen their collections. Eventually, they will have a large enough collection of rare corals and inturn they will give frags, or trade frags to other members to keep it going. This is very healthy for the club as a whole. Once people understand the reason and benefit they will not feel left out anymore.

As for the biannual frag swap, Man that would be awsome, but at the same time I know how much work that must have took to put it all together.

[cwolfus]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but...

I appreciate that some feel left out, and for that I am sorry.

However, I ask that you consider another perspective...

In other swaps we are seeing fewer and fewer rares and more and more hassles in defining what is rare. There are many reasons for this which I am happy to discuss, but the point is, as a result, these animals are not being distributed as widely and are therefor being hoarded in a limited number of tanks. That means that when something goes wrong (and eventually it always does) these rare specimens may be lost.

Diversification of ownership is the ONLY method of assuring survival.

My goal in setting this up was NOT to create haves and have nots, it was to spread these animals around. And that is exactly what is happening.

If you can think of better ways to do that, LMK. I will be doing this again and would like to improve it for next time. If you can think of a way to allow everyone and still get a high percentage of rares I want to hear what you have to say.

That said... Sometimes a LFS will also hold a take all comers local swap. Its been a while, but Steve at NAA was doing this for a while. I'm talking to James at OT about it. Nashorn, I believe you shop there too. The more of us that mention it, the more likely it will be!

Also, there's nothing to stop you from doing this on your own. I did!


C

[Sparkss]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
This was "rare to you" swap was not something BAR put together, it was a single member who did organized this by himself, without club funds or support, and set up a set of rules, a venue, and a date. Nothing is to stop anyone else from doing the same thing in a similar fashion.

Well put Mike.. I tried to convey that but you stated it much better than my feeble attempt



EDIT :

Originally posted by cwolfus
Also, there's nothing to stop you from doing this on your own. I did!


C

Here, here !!! Exactly !!!

And I for one am glad to have you in our midst Charles... Many thanks to you for putting the swap together. I only hope that we can manage to squeak into the next one like we did into this last one (we were the last ones in.. squeaking all the way ).

[Vincerama2]

Hey, maybe for newbies, we can do a "Sign up for BAR, get free Xenia, Colt, GSP, brown zoo pack" deal?

V

[sfsuphysics]

Hey I'm always willing to give xenia, colt, not so much gsp because I don't have lots of that zoo/paly packs

[FunGuy]

I can understand both sides of things. Labeling things as rare always brings up complex issues. This particular rare to you thing is a good idea to help people mix up coral, even if it is the "rare" ones. I don't expect people who pay a lot for some of these to want to swap their expensive piece for a common one.

I think something like this can be done with a wider range of corals if someone wanted to start that. I'd definitely be interested in a zoa one as I am not into SPS and LPS too much :P

[PUGroyale]

Instant entry into the rare game:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1104610

oops... too late gotta be quick and have the jack to be elite

I've been following the "rare to you" swap thread... great idea and fun to read, it was interesting seeing what corals would come up.

[Thales]

Nash,

Didn't you recently pick up a whole bunch of 'rares' from me?

My 1.026 cents -
People almost always want trades to be equitable or in their favor. If you spend 100 bucks for a frag of something and then take a year to grow it out into two frags, you are prolly interested in more of an equal trade or money over giving it away for nothing or for something you already have or don't want. It doesn't seem elitist to me, just practical. This has always been the case in swaps and BAR, IMO, has done a great job of working to handle the issue since the clubs inception 4 years ago. It used to be that swaps were all bread and butter corals, and the super seckret side trades were the only place you could get 'better' corals, and that felt way more elitist because the trades were set up behind the scenes. Charles has made a great attempt at tackling the issue another way.
If you like 'expensive/rare' corals, do like everyone did - spend a whole lot of money to get started, and hope you have a reefing thumb so they grow. Once you have them, you can sell them, trade them, or give them away. Is that elitist or practical?
One more random thought - after giving away lots of 'rare' corals and often seeing them go into tanks where they die, I am now a little more leery of giving them away (It feels pretty weird to have given away undata or pm or some crazy chalice and have someone tell you that it died and can they have another one). Again, this feels more practical than elitist to me. I am giving the coral away in essence so that if my specimen crashes, I will have another place to get it from in the future or, if I sell it, money to buy it in the future. Since I have so few of the 'rare' corals to go around, it seems to make more sense to try to make sure they will either go to a tank where they will thrive, or get something I feel is equitable in trade. Ah, supply and demand!



BTW, I am pretty sad I won't be able to make the RTY swap - hopefully, something will change in the next few days!

[sfsuphysics]

Rich is going to pull a Tanya Harding and whack someone's knee and take their place?? *gasp*

I've come to see this not so much as a swap, but as a large multiple person trade, with some "side-trades" tossed in type deal.

One person trades with another.. ok fine
One person trades with another who gives to another.. three way trade, not uncommon.
Now we have a huge 14-way trade, Charles might be the first person to have pulled it off!

I'm with Rich about the dying bit, heck I didn't want to sell (SELL MIND YOU!) one of my RBTAs some time back because it was a new person who just started a tank up, yes it was being sold but I still wanted to do an "ethical" thing and make sure it had a good chance to survive. And this was for a $20 anemone.

[Thales]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
Rich is going to pull a Tanya Harding and whack someone's knee and take their place?? *gasp*

Someone...I'm coming for you Mike!

[slojmn]

Thales, Well said .
Dave, nice link. I think you have to be willing to spend some money up front for some of the corals you really like that are higer priced in the general reefing market. I have spent full price for a number of my "rare" corals, others I have traded for once I had a stash going. There are also a lot of reefers out there who will to sell at a somewhat reduced price, some don't. It does not hurt to contact folks and see if they might sell you some of those rare frags...or even get on a wait list if they are willing to do so. I just did this a few weeks ago and I am getting a frag of a chalice I have wanted forever...I just did some research and contacted a RC member and I should have it in a few weeks. I am happy to sell frags of my rare stuff at a very reasonable price, always lower than what I initially paid because after a frew frags I will have my money back. When it comes to trading I prefer to do trades more on par for what something is worth. I am not going to trade a frag of my LE pink watermelon for a really pretty milli. It makes no sense. If you spent $150 on a frag and grew it for 16 months to a size you could finally frag a few pieces off you would not be offering it up for an average coral in trade, guaranteed!!!!

I saw this Rare Swap as an opportunity to meet some people and get a few pieces in my collection I don't have. I was lucky enough to have a piece that someone else had interest in so I got in. I would do like Dave alluded to...check out the For Sale forum on a regular basis and jump on some of those high end frag packs. It is a great way to start a collection. I've seen a number of great ones available lately.
Don't feel left out and know that I for one do not look down on anyone in the hobby. We are all in this together and I look forward to seeing you all at another Swap in the future.

[northbay-reefer]

Thales, my tank is doing awsome, and your corals will not die in my tank ... now, can you pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee give me frags of your Rare corals ??

Actually, I do have stuff to trade if you are interested.

[Mr. Ugly]

Originally posted by cwolfus
That said... Sometimes a LFS will also hold a take all comers local swap. Its been a while, but Steve at NAA was doing this for a while.

I think Steve is planning for another one in June

[Mr. Ugly]

Originally posted by Thales
(It feels pretty weird to have given away undata or pm or some crazy chalice and have someone tell you that it died and can they have another one).

Thales C R A Z Y Chalice

[Thales]

Originally posted by northbay-reefer
Thales, my tank is doing awsome, and your corals will not die in my tank ... now, can you pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee give me frags of your Rare corals ??

Actually, I do have stuff to trade if you are interested.

Only if you know the seckret handshake!
Shoot me a pm!

[Mr. Ugly]

Is this the line for the free rare corals?

[Thales]

You know where that line is!

[nashorn]

Sorry all…But I made a mistake since I tried to join the RTY swaptrades and was turn down.(I just wanted to look at the rare swap pictures) I thought it had 13 members and 137 new members if fact it was 137 new messages. So I just figure why couldn’t I join since there are so many in the group? That was why I posted what I did. Very sorry for what I posted and I blame it on the side effects of the Interceptor redbug treatment. I hope you all don't think I'm some kind of a nut. maybe a rare nut.

[Thales]

[northbay-reefer]

Originally posted by nashorn
Sorry all…But I made a mistake since I tried to join the RTY swaptrades and was turn down.(I just wanted to look at the rare swap pictures) I thought it had 13 members and 137 new members if fact it was 137 new messages. So I just figure why couldn’t I join since there are so many in the group? That was why I posted what I did. Very sorry for what I posted and I blame it on the side effects of the Interceptor redbug treatment. I hope you all don't think I'm some kind of a nut. maybe a rare nut.

Nashorn, you are not a nut, youre just a freak

[delsol650]

Have fun in the rare swap people, I'll get there some time when I have some rares to swap with.

[slojmn]

northbay-reefer, from some of your posted pictures you look to have very beautiful corals...definately trade worthy . nashorn, no one thinks you're a nut, easy mistake to make and don't worry anyways, that trade group is hecka hard to keep track of and make sense of

[rleechb]

that trade group is hecka hard to keep track of and make sense of

slojmn!! This is a nor cal forum, watch your language!

[Mr. Ugly]

Originally posted by nashorn
I thought it had 13 members and 137 new members if fact it was 137 new messages. So I just figure why couldn’t I join since there are so many in the group?

Whoa, 13+137=150. No wonder you felt left out!

Well, glad it's not all that bad then

[nashorn]

Originally posted by Thales
Nash,

Didn't you recently pick up a whole bunch of 'rares' from me?

My 1.026 cents -
People almost always want trades to be equitable or in their favor. If you spend 100 bucks for a frag of something and then take a year to grow it out into two frags, you are prolly interested in more of an equal trade or money over giving it away for nothing or for something you already have or don't want. It doesn't seem elitist to me, just practical. This has always been the case in swaps and BAR, IMO, has done a great job of working to handle the issue since the clubs inception 4 years ago. It used to be that swaps were all bread and butter corals, and the super seckret side trades were the only place you could get 'better' corals, and that felt way more elitist because the trades were set up behind the scenes. Charles has made a great attempt at tackling the issue another way.
If you like 'expensive/rare' corals, do like everyone did - spend a whole lot of money to get started, and hope you have a reefing thumb so they grow. Once you have them, you can sell them, trade them, or give them away. Is that elitist or practical?
One more random thought - after giving away lots of 'rare' corals and often seeing them go into tanks where they die, I am now a little more leery of giving them away (It feels pretty weird to have given away undata or pm or some crazy chalice and have someone tell you that it died and can they have another one). Again, this feels more practical than elitist to me. I am giving the coral away in essence so that if my specimen crashes, I will have another place to get it from in the future or, if I sell it, money to buy it in the future. Since I have so few of the 'rare' corals to go around, it seems to make more sense to try to make sure they will either go to a tank where they will thrive, or get something I feel is equitable in trade. Ah, supply and demand!



BTW, I am pretty sad I won't be able to make the RTY swap - hopefully, something will change in the next few days!

Hi
Yeah the PM is doing fine encrusted and starting to grow slowly.The undata is twice its size and the tables have their purple tips.Very happy with them.Thanks