Ecotech Vortech or Tunze Streams

[tacocat]

Originally posted by HBtank
Again, for both assertions, why would Tunze make a wavebox if they were true??

No. it's very easy to do on the 7095, but it's hard on the pump. the Aquasurf is even more capable of pulling off a wave, because of the shorter pulse times.

As to the question above, the folks of Tunze feel that a Wavebox alone isn't sufficient for circulation alone, and that other pumps should be used in conjunction with it ideally. Is this true? I don't know, but I tend to agree with the logic.

[xtm]

I like how you can put the Turbelle Streams on a Tunze Rock and make it virtually invisible. Can't do this with a VorTech........

[Thinslis]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
The Vortech is external, so you have to allow for a hockey puck on the outside of the tank. This can be a huge visual sore if you mount your pumps at opposide ends on the side panels. You cant adjust their direction, and they do make some noise since they arent under the water (and the heat they make concerns me w/ regards to motor longevity... man, they run hot!).

My Tunze streams are using the mag holders, the Vortech motor is more visually pleasing to me then the Tunze Mag.

Originally posted by xtm
I like how you can put the Turbelle Streams on a Tunze Rock and make it virtually invisible. Can't do this with a VorTech........

While this is true they do have the rock, but this presents other challenges.

A. You have to hide the cable as well
B. You have to remove the pump for cleaning (IE: rehide the cable and adjust rockwork
C. Additional cost

[hahnmeister]

I agree, using the tunze rocks isnt always the best, but actually incorporating the Stream into the rockwork of the tank works great.

http://www.hausriff.ch/4477.html

Using the right rockwork, in Iwan's case above the 'Reef Ceramics', allowed him to use three tunzes in his tank, all mounted up high, yet not a single one is visible.

If you dont like the magnetic mounts... dont use them.

But the above placement allowed Iwan to completely hide the Tunzes, up high, easy to remove, and little of this 'additional cost' mentioned.

It just requires some planning ahead. You dont need Reef Ceramics to make it work either. You can use aragacrete, or even hydraulic cement to bont together existing pieces.

Also, others have made 'fake overflow' walls in their tanks, and these walls have holes in them to fit the tunze's outlet into, so all you see is the the front 1/2" of the pump sticking out... the rest is kept inside the 'fake overflow' box. The other issues are solved as well.

Its something that requires a little planning ahead, but it can be done.

[saltysupply]

seems like personal preferance really....Tunze does make an unbeatable powerhead though.

[HBtank]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
I see no real advantage to the Vortech, and I do see some disadvantages to them though. So I say Tunze.

The Vortech is external, so you have to allow for a hockey puck on the outside of the tank. This can be a huge visual sore if you mount your pumps at opposide ends on the side panels. You cant adjust their direction, and they do make some noise since they arent under the water (and the heat they make concerns me w/ regards to motor longevity... man, they run hot!).

The only real disadvantage of the Tunze is that it is in the tank. But, with some planning, and creative use of rockwork/fake baffles, etc... you can hide them just as well if not better than the Vortech.

I wont bother comparing on price since they are rather similar (and such a small difference isnt going to sway someone's decision as much as actual performance & features).

I think it really depends on the tank.

In my 80g, there is no comparison in regards to the visual impact inside the tank.

I just do not have the space to get that creative with rockwork and use a comparable GPH Tunze without giant powerheads hanging in the tank.

As for blocking a small circle the side panels, I personally do not find it bothersome at all. I am not a big "side viewer" and no one that looks at my tank seems to be either. The front view is by far my biggest concern, and no cords or bulky powerheads is huge on the visual impact. If anything they are amazed at the pumps and it is a very cool techy thing, they ask if I drilled the sides etc.. and are amazed at the real answer, like a kid who just found out how to play with two magnets on a table. But that is just me and my opinion of Vortech on the standard rect. setups. I can't imagine the amout of rock and akward placement that would be needed to hide them. Just not as simple as you make it sound on smaller tanks that want high flow.

I hated my Koralias and they were a real eyesore. Been there, done that. I just do not see your suggestions as possible in my tank with the rockwork I like. Even if I did, I would see it as putting the flow dynamics (and even my preffered style of rockwork) in a secondary position in regards to overall goals, by choosing odd rockwork to hide equipment, and not be open and condusive to flow. etc... That is a sacrifice I do not want to make.

As for motor longevity and heat, well we will jsut have to see if your concerns are right. I am hoping that Ecotech "noticed" this as well and accounted for it...

Anyways, the rest is pretty much a wash, I agree.

But in the end all the repeat customers that have used both pumps speak for themselves IMO.... Obviously some people have seen something they saw as an "advantage" and have managed to also overlook all the disadvantages you see.....lol...

[Bebo77]

you cant angle a vortec.. for that reason alone they are inferior...

[HBtank]

Originally posted by Bebo77
you cant angle a vortec.. for that reason alone they are inferior...

lol.. I guess everyone is fooled.

[USC-fan]

If you get the vortec make sure you use the foam pads that they now come with. I seen a lot of people lose fish to these pumps.

[JRaquatics]

Originally posted by Bebo77
you cant angle a vortec.. for that reason alone they are inferior...

There is no need for direct these pumps. If you think so then you are sadly mistaken. The flow on these pumps are like no other. I have yet see a pump create an undertow like these. Particle in the water seem to stay suspended and I have never had polyp extension like what I am seeing now. I have also noticed my skimmer pulling out atleast a half a cup more skimate a week.

I did choose the vortec over the Tunze and do not regret it.

[MJAnderson]

Originally posted by JRaquatics
There is no need for direct these pumps. If you think so then you are sadly mistaken. The flow on these pumps are like no other. I have yet see a pump create an undertow like these. Particle in the water seem to stay suspended and I have never had polyp extension like what I am seeing now. I have also noticed my skimmer pulling out atleast a half a cup more skimate a week.

I did choose the vortec over the Tunze and do not regret it.

But because you can't angle them they have to go in the middle of your side panels, unlike Tunze which can be tucked away in a corner. It's not a flow issue, it's a placement issue. Vortecs have to go in a certain spot. If that's not convenient for you, then you're SOL.

[tacocat]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
It's not a flow issue, it's a placement issue. Vortecs have to go in a certain spot.

I think this is Vortechs only real weakness. Tunze is more flexible in this regard. They can't work on my tank becuase I have a full back overflow and a cube tank. If the placement works for you, I say go for it. I'd love to give them a whirl, but I can't.

If the motor were submersible, I'd buy them. Comparing flow characteristics between the two pumps is moot. They are both very similar with only minor differences. The cool thing about DC pumps is that you can change the circulation pattern in your tank with a few adjustments, and this applies to both pumps.

The controllable pumps make GPH as irrelevant as watts per gallon because of the synergistic effect of both pumps working together. That's where the Maxi-mod and Koralia crowd miss out.

Keep your $40 mod. I want to see a surge or wave in my tank created by my 23w pumps.

[Thinslis]

Maybe some Vortech owners could take some pictures and post them of their pumps.

Thanks,

[HBtank]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
But because you can't angle them they have to go in the middle of your side panels, unlike Tunze which can be tucked away in a corner. It's not a flow issue, it's a placement issue. Vortecs have to go in a certain spot. If that's not convenient for you, then you're SOL.

You can't just "tuck" away a giant powerhead in a corner. like I said, been there, done that. Sounds nice and neat typed in a sentence, but it is not in reality when you have to stick it in there and take up that space, especially in smaller tanks, and also shade everything below it. I have two nice acro colonies where my giant powerheads used to be "tucked away". I have ricordia colonies below them that I used to have to get on my knees to see behind my PH's. I can't believe the difference it made in my small tank.

Also, Vortechs do not have to be placed in the middle of the side panels? Who ever said that? I have seen them ranging from across the back, to down low behind rocks, in the back corner pushing across the bottom, two on one end, high and low, really every combination imaginable.... It depends on the tank (cube, penninsula, in wall etc..), substrate, coral placement etc.... not some requirement inherent to the pump....

You make it sound like sticking a traditional powerhead in a corner and angling it towards the center of the tank is the only way to go... lol

It really seems that a lot of people who have zero experience with Vortechs think they know a whole bunch about them. Many of these assertions are just not correct.

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by tacocat


The controllable pumps make GPH as irrelevant as watts per gallon because of the synergistic effect of both pumps working together. That's where the Maxi-mod and Koralia crowd miss out.

Keep your $40 mod. I want to see a surge or wave in my tank created by my 23w pumps.

That is why i use a wavebox with my tunze nano, koralia 4 and modded MJ!

[HBtank]

I look at it this way...

Almost every current Vortech user has used traditional in-tank powerheads for years, even decades, and in many cases Tunze stream. All of us have already angled a pump and dealt with the space and cords they take/have. Come on guys.... Like I have never tried angling a pump from a corner or hiding one behind a rock..... lmao..

But on the other hand, it seems all the people I see talking about how inferior Vortechs are have never seen one, much less been an owner..

That simple fact tells me all I need to know. I know which opion I would feel is just a little more balanced.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by HBtank
You can't just "tuck" away a giant powerhead in a corner. like I said, been there, done that. Sounds nice and neat typed in a sentence, but it is not in reality when you have to stick it in there and take up that space...

Sure you can. Have you looked at the Reef Ceramics rocks designed to do so? Have you seen Iwan Lasser's tank? The powerheads are integrated.

Lets put is this way... you CAN if you do some planning. You know, the back wall of a tank isnt the only place that a closed loop can be plumbed into... and a closed loop can be nothing more than a powerhead facing into the tank that draws its water from behind the wall. You just have to get creative. Make walls and structures that you can place tunzes behind or in, and you are set.

This goes for every inlet/outlet/ piece of equipment in the tank, so I dont really know what the big deal is. You got to hide things.

[petedoc]

I have both. The Tunzes are in my 135 gal tank in rock holders and work great. The Vortechs are in my 270 and I am still adjusting them. They both have their pluses and minuses. The Tunzes have a photo sensor for night mode which is a big advantage. The Vortechs have better wave production. Someone needs to combine the best of both!

[HBtank]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Sure you can. Have you looked at the Reef Ceramics rocks designed to do so? Have you seen Iwan Lasser's tank? The powerheads are integrated.

Lets put is this way... you CAN if you do some planning. You know, the back wall of a tank isnt the only place that a closed loop can be plumbed into... and a closed loop can be nothing more than a powerhead facing into the tank that draws its water from behind the wall. You just have to get creative. Make walls and structures that you can place tunzes behind or in, and you are set.

This goes for every inlet/outlet/ piece of equipment in the tank, so I dont really know what the big deal is. You got to hide things.

So now are we are factoring in the cost of special rocks for Tunze to make them "equal"? What about cords?

Or the extra cost of custom builds with special Tunze hiding walls and structures or Tunze powered closed loops.. etc?

If I had too and had the cash, that would be the way to go...

But no thanks, I already found a solution, I'll just stick with Vortechs and a standard drilled tank.

I think Vortechs and two simple returns from my sump is a cheaper (possibly much cheaper) and simpler way to get that clean look.

[HBtank]

Originally posted by petedoc
I have both. The Tunzes are in my 135 gal tank in rock holders and work great. The Vortechs are in my 270 and I am still adjusting them. They both have their pluses and minuses. The Tunzes have a photo sensor for night mode which is a big advantage. The Vortechs have better wave production. Someone needs to combine the best of both!

I think that is the controllers big minus, no variablilty of the modes themselves.... arghh

[burton14e7]

This is what sold me. Notice the little white balls suspended. I believe Tunze Streams are just that, streams. Vortechs are mass water movement. IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLPmea2II-A

[MJAnderson]

Originally posted by burton14e7
This is what sold me. Notice the little white balls suspended. I believe Tunze Streams are just that, streams. Vortechs are mass water movement. IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLPmea2II-A

That MACNA tank was just showing off. You can get a pretty good wave going with the Vortechs, but all they were doing is flipping back and forth every 3 seconds with 20" of water in between. You could do that with any powerhead (or at least anyone that could turn off and on every 3 seconds).

I have seen them make a decent wave on a 6' tank

[burton14e7]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
That MACNA tank was just showing off. You can get a pretty good wave going with the Vortechs, but all they were doing is flipping back and forth every 3 seconds with 20" of water in between. You could do that with any powerhead (or at least anyone that could turn off and on every 3 seconds).

I have seen them make a decent wave on a 6' tank

It's not the wave action I was pointing out. It's that all the beads were lifted off the tank and were suspended in the column. I have a wave box for wave action, I got the vortechs for the flow pattern. There was another video in that reef ipod cast that shows them lifting all the beads off the tank bottom too but I couldn't find it on youtube. They're using the beads to show that the pump isn't just a stream of water being pushed. It's the undertow that people are ignoring. I guess if you're not going BB it doesn't matter to you as much.

[kimoyo]

Neither! Maxi-jet with a mod! I can get six modded maxi-jets for 1 6101 and more flow than it from just one.

Gotta show icecap some love though.

And who cares about pulsing, does is really do anything for the tank, can someone show some proof. A wave is one thing and the aquasurf looks like its the real deal. But just an ordinary pulse on and off, come on.

[tacocat]

Originally posted by kimoyo
But just an ordinary pulse on and off, come on.

Nope DC pump controllers don't behave that way. It's not a simple on an off. It's actually switching from 100% power to 30% every 1s or less. Think of it as pushing a kid on a swing or hitting a tether ball. Small pushes build up the momentum of the water column. You can't accomplish that with a Maxi-mod without destroying it in short order.

Further, the pumps can reverse direction periodically through out the day.

Proof - How many successful large tanks (150g+) are able to get away with just two Tunzes or Vortechs?