New RANDY's 2 part - Page 2

jdieck · #26 12/15/2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NanoReefWanabe
so the 50# bag of DOW i bought 6 months ago is no good now.....ah damnit...what the heck am i going to do now???

at what point do these levels of bromine become unacceptable? as i have been using two part for at least 6 months now...

It might be good if it came from stocks and was produced before the change.

gkimble · #27 12/15/2007, 01:30 AM

What about using a teaspoon of pickle lime to one gallon of ro water. And if your ph gets high just add 1/8th a cup of vinager

NanoReefWanabe · #28 12/15/2007, 09:11 PM

pickling lime is the same as kalkwasser...ALK and CAL...

when did the change take place? and how would i find out the production date of my bag of DOW?

ArtC · #29 12/15/2007, 10:27 PM

Change took place at the factory 31 December 2005. How long it took to work it's way through the supply chain is something else.

No doubt much of the world's remaining supply has been used to melt ice over the last week

Announcement from Dow (affects ALL Dow CaCl2 products)
http://www.reefwerks.com/media/August2005.pdf

I don't know what Tetra food-grade costs, but I found reagent-quality at $5/lb in bulk online at:

http://www.spectrumchemical.com/reta...uct_id=5561538

I'd think Tetra would be less than that, but $5/lb with no worries isn't bad either.

Mavrk · #30 12/15/2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NanoReefWanabe
so the 50# bag of DOW i bought 6 months ago is no good now.....ah damnit...what the heck am i going to do now???

at what point do these levels of bromine become unacceptable? as i have been using two part for at least 6 months now...

According to the press release you can look at the lot number. If it has a "U" or a "PC" then it is not good to use. The problem is that this desination was only in effect until the end of 2006.

I'd say you are better off ordering from twopartsolution or finding another alternative as suggested above.

I hear great things about b-ionic even though the price is higher.

rleechb · #31 12/16/2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bertoni
Peladow is made the same way as the flake, I believe. TwoPartSolutions.com is selling calcium chloride that they claim is okay, and I haven't heard any problems with it reported.

Has anyone heard any problems with tanks using later versions of Dowflake?

Scooter12ga · #32 12/16/2007, 12:58 AM

Has anybody been able to tell if Prestone Driveway Heat is affected by this as well?

bertoni · #33 12/16/2007, 02:38 AM

The change affected all Dow calcium chloride products.

tmz · #34 12/16/2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Actually, limewater may be a better option as it is still cheap.

I use limewater. Set it up in a fashion similar to your description of your set up in your article except for the pump. I was able to get a used liter meter at a reasonalbel price and use it. I also use a calcium reactor and the two work very well toghether. I was able to figure this out with the help of your articles. Thankyou.

tmz · #35 12/16/2007, 02:46 AM

Prestone Driveway Heat is manufactured by DOW for clarification.

Scooter12ga · #36 12/16/2007, 12:31 PM

Thanks for the clarification. This seems highly impacting to tons of reef keepers. I vote to Sticky.

Also since this change apparently happened back in Dec 2005, why are we just now hearing about it? I've been using Driveway Heat all year and haven't seen any huge impacts.

What should the specific impacts be?

kinerson · #37 12/16/2007, 12:52 PM

I have been told by some chemistry moderators on other website's that the Tetra line "should" be a safe alternative. The way they process there Calcium Chloride is different then Dow's which means much less Bromide levels according to there sales rep. Levels are even lower then the original Dow.

I have spent many hours looking for the Tetra product and have come to the conclusion that at this time it is extremly difficult to locate. The "food Grade" that tetra makes will not be available much longer and is 10-20x's more expensive according to a Tetra sales rep (not an option IMO). I have spoke to a few reefers that are using some misc Tetra products but it's to soon to tell. Even if it works it is very hard to find unless you want a pallet. One guy found some Tetra at a pool store.

I have found a product called Kemira from a local hardware store which is now owned by Tetra and is suppose to be a Tech grade. Again I have been told by other moderaters from other websites that this "should" be safe. I just mixed up my first gallon and noticed the color is tannish color instead of white. I'm not sure what to think of it.

Greg

oct2274 · #38 12/16/2007, 01:00 PM

agreed, this should be a sticky with the word warning in front of it. as far as the tetra product being safe do you have a full break down of of it's makeup so that maybe someone here could determine if it is a good alternative and that there aren't other unsafe elements?

kinerson · #39 12/16/2007, 01:30 PM

There are a number of Tetra calcium chloride products. I believe Randy mentioned earlier in this thread that although he's to busy to perform experiments with the different products, he is willing to look over some spec sheets.

Also, two part solutions sent me an e-mail saying thay are aware of the situation, they have alot of the older Dow product in reserves, and when it is used up they have a supior product lined up. I asked if the product was in the Tetra line but they never responded. I'm sure they would rather not say because of buisness/profit reasons.

Greg

lecher · #40 12/16/2007, 02:49 PM

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...tail/iid/22679

kinerson · #41 12/16/2007, 05:09 PM

Lecher- Do you currently use this? I have heard that there are only two or three main calcium chloride producers, Dow and Tetra for sure, and possibly a third. I was told this by Tetra (they were not sure of a third but made it sound like it's possible). If this is true it's possible that this tech grade of Calcium Chloride comes from Dow (most do)and may no longer be safe. Just a thought.
Greg

lecher · #42 12/16/2007, 05:44 PM

I have some but have only used a small amount of it. My kalk reactor and water changes maintain my alk and ca levels for the time being. The directions state that it is for use in recirculating aquaculture systems, so I would think that it is safe and have seen no ill effects when I did use it. I was planning to use it when my alk and ca demands increase to more than my kalk can provide. If CaCl is going to be difficult to obtain I may buy a Ca reactor.

NanoReefWanabe · #43 12/16/2007, 07:09 PM

huh...i have been using my dow flakes for a good 6 onths no with from what i cant tell no ill effects...

is there a way to test for bromide, bromine levels in our tanks?

i would be curious..

kinerson · #44 12/16/2007, 07:37 PM

Nano- It's very likely that your Dowflake is the 2006 batch or earlier. If this is the case there is need to worry.
Greg

kinerson · #45 12/16/2007, 07:39 PM

I mean no need to worry

Shouse94 · #46 12/16/2007, 07:41 PM

Agreed, I would be curious too. This thread needs to to be a sticky. A lot of people are using Randy's 2-part and they need to be warned!

TracyZeuner · #47 12/16/2007, 08:01 PM

I am using the stuff from twopartsolutions and am also curious if there is a test for the bromide. This hobby is expensive enough. I dont think I can take another hit in my pocket book

Randy Holmes-Farley · #48 12/17/2007, 08:30 AM

I am not aware of a suitable kit for bromide in reef tanks.

FWIW, I wish we knew more about bromide depletion rates in reef tanks. It might be fine to use the new Dowflake, especially in tanks with macroalgae that likely use a lot of bromide, but I just cannot recommend it without seeing some real data.

Bous · #49 12/17/2007, 01:28 PM

What are the effects of bromide in a reef tank? What are some things we should be looking out for? I Just bought a beginners kit from two part solution and have been using it for about 2 weeks. Someone posted that two part solution is aware of the problem and that they said that their Dowflake is OK and they have a new product Lined up after it runs out. Is this true? Should I stop using my 2 part or keep on keeping on?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #50 12/17/2007, 01:38 PM

Not much is known about the effects of bromide in a reef aquarium. I've not done a literature search of known toxic levels in seawater.

Bromide is discussed here:

The Halogens Part I: Bromine in Seawater and Aquaria
http://web.archive.org/web/200306261...io/default.asp

and

What Happens When Ozone is Applied to Seawater?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#6