Caribbean Live Rock? Any good - Page 2

BeanAnimal · #26 09/28/2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zuzecawi
Hmm, when gorgonians, sponges, jewel box corals, porites, brain corals, tube worms, christmas tree worms, feather dusters of various types, clams, seastars, oysters, and various types of corralline and macro algae come from one or two cups of somebody's live sand... then I'll be happy to skip the live rock and start with base rock.

I have all of that, but did not fill the tank full of LR. Dozens of other people will tell or show you the same thing. You don't need a tank full of LR to get diversity. Buy a pound or two or rock from a few different reefs. Trade a few rocks with a few other reefers.

Tell ya what... you keep paying $8.00 or more a pound. You cure your rock or cook your rock or whaver method you feel works the best. Just don't tell me that I or anybody needs to fill a tank with LR to setup a thriving and diverse tank. It is 100% nonsense.

I can say, "Look, see all those arms poking out of the rocks when I feed the tank" and you all can read it and say, hmm, okay. But actually, in person, seeing the real deal... is incredible. I've been in this hobby for over 14 years now, and my first tank was all ugf and bleached coral and copper every month. I can say, that as the use of live rock became more common, my enjoyment increased exponentially. Every day l discover something new on the rocks that I've overlooked, and my current tank is going on it's fifth year.

Quote:

With that being said, lets not turn this into a flame war. Bean, you've got good info and good experience, but so do other people. There is no one true way with reefing, there are as many approaches as there are people in the hobby. Some work, some don't, and some are a matter of personal taste.

[/QUOTE] Don't be so foolish to think that YOUR tank is that much more diverse or full of life than the next guys. I have chitons, bi-valves, spirobid worms, tube worms, dristle worms, astarena stars, mini brittles, black sponges, green sponges, tunicates, and dozens of other organisms. My tank is almost ALL reeferrock with just a pound or two of rock from other folks tanks. Much of it (including two soft corals) came in a cup of live sand from the LFS. From the clump of live sand grew GSP AND a mushroom. I had pods, spirobids and bristles, tube worms and feather dusters that ALL came from the 1 cup of sand. They started showing up within a week of adding the sand and months before ANY LR, coral or fish hit the tank.

We have a rather small set of creatures that thrive in our tanks. It is not hard to aquire them by just trading a coral or two or some sand with another thriving tank.

fishysteve · #27 09/28/2007, 06:40 AM

BeanAnimal found the magic beans from the bean stalk it sounds like. Where does Jack live? Or do you live next to a power plant? How do you know you got GSP, two soft corals, mushrooms, and all that other stuff from a cup of sand? Some of what you listed could have come from the pound or two of rock you got from fellow reefers.

Bob Loblaw · #28 09/28/2007, 06:55 AM

Johnsteph10 · #29 09/28/2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishysteve
BeanAnimal found the magic beans from the bean stalk it sounds like. Where does Jack live? Or do you live next to a power plant? How do you know you got GSP, two soft corals, mushrooms, and all that other stuff from a cup of sand? Some of what you listed could have come from the pound or two of rock you got from fellow reefers.

I just want to step in here and also comment.

I've been keeping SW tanks now for over 15 years as well. I also remember keeping bleached coral and medicating the tank heavily.

You are getting awfully close to insulting -- perhaps you should peruse the U/A again before you go too far.

BeanAnimal is right on the money -- you are the one that needs to do a little research and educate yourself.

BeanAnimal · #30 09/28/2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishysteve
BeanAnimal found the magic beans from the bean stalk it sounds like. Where does Jack live? Or do you live next to a power plant? How do you know you got GSP, two soft corals, mushrooms, and all that other stuff from a cup of sand? Some of what you listed could have come from the pound or two of rock you got from fellow reefers.

1) If you read my post you will see that the sand was put in before the other items and the corals showed up in that time period.

2) I only have a few pounds (MAX) of rock tha twas taken from another tank.

I still have all of that "diverse" life and did not buy piles of LR from Fiji, Tonga, MA, or whatever the latest hotspot is. All of that diversity came from the very small amount if items that I imported from local tanks and the corals that I have added to the system over the least 2 years.

As I mentioned, buying LR is certainly an option. In my educated opinion it is not needed. There have been some recent studies done that show that there is very little biological difference between real LR and rock that has been in a system for a short period of time. That is exactly what we can dump 200 tons of base rock or concrete in the ocean and then sell it as "cultured" LR. Why not just dump it in YOUR OWN tank and "culture" it.

The denitifying bacteria will grow as the bioload in your tank grows. If that REAL LR came with all of that extra bacteria, it will die off to a level that can be supported by the bioload in your tank anyway.

So the only question is the "extras" and are they worth $6-$10 a pound to get? Is the chance of getting nasty isopods, mantis shrimp, gorilla craps, eunicid worms, etc worth the gamble or the money? To some it is worth the money. I am just offering well supported opinion that it can be done a lot cheaper and with outstanding results.

luke33 · #31 09/28/2007, 08:48 AM

One thing thats kinda funny about LR taken out of the ocean is after so many years all the hitchers and life are gone. Rather ironic because it pretty much describes what bean is talking about. I still like the fresh stuff from teh ocean though! The life on it that lasts those few years is worth it to me! There's both pro's and con's with each as mentioned before but this debate is going to turn into circles and cirles of meaningless crap after a while.

fishysteve · #32 09/28/2007, 09:42 AM

BeanAnimal -- I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.

BeanAnimal · #33 09/28/2007, 12:23 PM

Not offended. Conversation and differing opinions are what furthers our knowledge. Sometimes we all forget to be kind when offering those opinions (me included).

Paul B · #34 09/30/2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Tell ya what... you keep paying $8.00 or more a pound. You cure your rock or cook your rock or whaver method you feel works the best. Just don't tell me that I or anybody needs to fill a tank with LR to setup a thriving and diverse tank. It is 100% nonsense.

You mean I should have put "live rock" in my reef?
I have been doing it wrong for almost four decades.
Ohhh nooo.

But they diden't invent live rock in the sixtees.

Stupid me

cgib831 · #35 10/10/2007, 08:21 AM

wow, this one got a little heated. Anyway, my rock has been in for over a week and looks good. there is definitly some stuff that concerns me though. Some sort of plants/macro that are strange to me. They are the color of green coraline, and are like flat circles conected by a string. sort of like a macro necklace. anybody know what this is? I dont know if i need to get crazy trying to remove stuff. Maybe i'll post some pics. Anyhow, if the rock works out ill be very happy, as the price was low and the density is too, so i got a lot of rock for the money.

BeanAnimal · #36 10/10/2007, 08:35 AM

You need to remove it...

fishysteve · #37 10/10/2007, 08:45 AM

cgib831 -- That is halimeda algae. It's not really bad, it just sucks up calcium. Personally, I like the way it looks in my tank. It gives it a little color.

BeanAnimal · #38 10/10/2007, 08:57 AM

You can't be sure it is halimeda without photos. I suggested to err on the side of safety and remove it. Some macros are very invasive, others manageable. I struggle with several kinds of caulerpa in my system (Rabbitfish and Scopas tank keep it under control).

notenoughtanks · #39 10/10/2007, 08:58 AM

I should have mentioned I don't have any experience with haitian rock, the rock I consider crap is gulf and keys, and once again, the biodiversity is great, but that red turf algae is TERRIBLE!

ralphie16 · #40 10/10/2007, 10:15 AM

i spend nearly $1600 buying 300 lbs of marshall island rock. thats ok because i have a lot of money and dont really care. but even with that said, trying to get a lot of biodiversity from live rock in the condition that it is currently delivered to the masses is not going to happen. the rock is wrapped in moist newspapers in a plastic bag and shipped for many days. most of the stuff will die during transport. if it does not die during transport then most will die during the ammonia spike that occurs during the curing process in your tank. the best way to add diversity to your tank is buying live rock with some sort of coral attached to it. you can be sure this piece of rock was treated well and always submerged because the coral is what is valuable and tends to get treated well so it can be sold to the end consumer.

cgib831 · #41 10/10/2007, 12:32 PM

i am gonna try and get some pics up tonight hopefully. There was also some red macro, thin, round and wavy on the rock. i hope this isnt the horrible stuff some guys are talking about. I dont know if any of it is intact enough to identify. My lights have been off since i putthe rock in, so it is decaying. Im hoping that after a month or so anything bad will be dead after not having any light, but i know that is wishful thinking. I was thinking about getting a yellow tang and maybe an angel, would they eat any of the macro i dont want?

cgib831 · #42 10/10/2007, 12:34 PM

fishysteve, i believe thats it, but mine definatly came dead if so. like i said, color of green coraline

fishysteve · #43 10/10/2007, 10:57 PM

You really do have to be careful of different alga. Years ago I had to replace all of my rock due to a feather caulerpa infestation. I may not have had to replace it if I had the skimmer I have now. My skimmer was crap back then, maybe that would have worked. I don't know. I would pull out any algae that pops up. You never know what will cause a problem.

BeanAnimal · #44 10/11/2007, 09:08 AM

Exactly... get rid of it now. You can always import a species if you wish to have it.

Ruskin · #45 10/11/2007, 12:13 PM

I was in my LFS last night and noticed the 'dead' base rock they were selling was laballed as "will increase tank ph". Was this just a warning to FW keepers saying that the rock was meant for marine or cichlid (sp) use?

Im starting up a 120 and have about 30lbs of live rock from my nano that I will be seeding the base rock with. I did want to make sure I'm getting the right base rock first. It seems very porous and looks like it will do the trick.

drives300 · #46 10/11/2007, 04:20 PM

I personally reccomend no more than 20 percent LR to anyone starting a tank. In 6 mths to a year you cant tell whats what.

cgib831 · #47 10/12/2007, 05:30 PM

im still waiting t post pics, ive just been way too busy. maybe sunday night. i want you guys to take a look at some stuff. "Will increae ph" is a load of s. maybe it will, but thats just a trick theyre using to sell it to u. but baserock is fine, and deadrock is also. if youve gt 30lbs to seed it with and dont mind waiting a month or so, it will all be the same. u might get some cool stuff with fresh LR, but u also might not. also depends on what ur shooting for - - filtration or biodiversity. ie; FOWLR or reef. thats how id look at it. but if i had the money id buy all LR. That can be quite alot though. My wife decided that some dead rock and LR would do just fine. I agreed. LOL