Nov reefkeeping on scorpionfish

[FMarini]

MBvash- sorry dude, that scorpion you pointed out is not an Ambon lion, its a rhinopia, the ultimate in lionfish. Also the ultimate in price. Zoinks.
Gorgeous, and rare.

I have seen recently some one post an ambon, claim he only paid like $40 USD, so its was clearly misID'ed, gott alove shippers.
frank

[M.Dandaneau]

Did they have any others? **grin**

[Alec119]

Does the Monkeyfish, fall into the catagory of a Scorpionfish, or some other order???

[aquajohn]

Great stuff!!! Why is it I have to lose a critter to get educated on it?? Lost my clown trigger, (I raised from a baby), to my recently acuired P. Volitan Lion. Thanks for the great info!! John

[myerst2]

the local lfs near me has 4 rhinopias. 2 Eshmeryi (purple morph and 2 frondosa. Decent price of 1,000-1,200$. They are kept in a 200 gallon packed sps tank.. Just thought I'd let you know. Tim

[supernip]

i paid 40 for the ambon. that was over a yr ago though. now the price has risen to 200. what temp does your lfs keep their tank at myerst? I read that they dont do well in tanks over 78, sps tanks are usually like 80-82 which can cause problems. beautiful fishes though, comes in a blue morph too I've been seeing a lot of them lately. price drops will happen but i figure they'll stay around 7-8hundred. I see a lot of bad shippers too, weird diseases, unwilling to eat. it's a pity, these things are gorgeous.

[supernip]

by the way, how much do you usually see ambons for? how much do you think they're worth?

Would you consider them more rare than the rhinopias species?

[daytona955]

Just don't let Anthony Calfo get ahold of it! He will flame the heck out of you, lol. He personally told me that you could never keep a lion in anything smaller than a 200+ gallon because it is cruel and not concientous, lol. Funny thing is that every other author I have seen said that 75+ is fine. He told me I was cruel and not a concientious person to keep 1-2 in a 180.

[M.Dandaneau]

Hey, you can keep a Grizzly bear in a bathroom too, but it's liable to get stiff and cranky as the cabin fever sets in.

I just e-mailed Frank and Ed about a recent fluke....took two local teens to a nearby shop, helping them start their tank, when what do I see?
A 5" yellow Rhinopias frondosa marked as a "Striated Angler"!
After having them double check that that was their correct ID and price, I told them to bag it up for $79.99.
This one is eating live pinfish and grunts about 1 1/2" long.

I was always concerned that they might be as finicky as Leaffish and demand ONLY live ghost shrimp, based on their similar appearance and means of locomotion, but nope, these are real scorpionfish!

[daytona955]

So are you saying that a 180 gallon tank is not sufficient for a volitan lion? I think there are several people with PHD's that would disagree.

[M.Dandaneau]

Of course it is, and that's NOT what I'm saying.
I currently have 2 P. russellii , a P. volitan and 3 scorpionfish in a 125, with the P. volitan scheduled for a move to the 300 in short order.
Blanket statements like that are so easily misread or misconstrued, as they are dependent on other factors as well, such as what OTHER fish are in the system, how good is the filtration, etc., etc.
If Anthony meant it wasn't large enough for JUST 2 P. volitan with nothing else in the tank, I'd have to argue that one with him myself.

[daytona955]

That is exactly what he meant. I also asked what other fishes I could keep with lions and he stated that I should not even keep one lion in a 180 and that he would answer no more questions about compatibility because he did not feel I even needed a lion in the 180 much less any other fishes. He was kinda a jerk and further made himself out to be not very knowledgeable about fishes. As for the filtration it was not even mentioned. But I do have a large wet dry and a huge skimmer.

[M.Dandaneau]

Actually, I just met him not too long ago and this doesn't sound like the Anthony I know....on the other hand, someone else that I know VERY WELL got one body part or another caught in a wringer not too long ago and stormed out of THIS site in a huff**cough, cough, blush** so I know it can happen **grin**

I strongly suspect this is pretty well what happened in your case as well, and while it may not make YOU feel any better, it helps ME a lot, so thanks for sharing....
No comment about me finding a Rhinopias frondosa for $79.99 at all? About a life long dream finally realized?

Why you @#$#@#@%$ $%%%^%@#$@**grin**
See?

[Anthony Calfo]

daytona955

your comments are both interesting an fascinating... the medium of text messaging and message boards never fails to amuse if not amaze me. Particularly the further down the line things go

I wish you the best of luck in life at large.

Anthony

[daytona955]

Anthony I am sure that you remember you lack of knowledge in the exchange, you said to keep a lion in a 180 was like me living in a closet. It was a rediculous comment and further an un-educated one from what I have read from others with PHD's which you lack. Please say again that a volitan can not live in a 180. We can debate it again here.

[daytona955]

Further Mr. M.Dandaneau this reply was NOT directed at you, pardon if you thougt it was, but at the originator of the thread. my appologies. I may have used the wrong reply. But as I have said before this was all things that Mr. Calfo said in e-mails...I will have to see if I can get the e-mails to back it up. But he expressededly said a volitan in a 180 or 2 in a 180 was not being a contientious aquarist. I will have to try to find the e-mails if they have not been deleted by the sytem as from what I have found it was quite an un-educated statement as per every other person in reef keeping with a PHD that I have found opinions on about lions.

Lastly it was meant as a congrats with a nicely written article! the aforementioned part was merely a dig on someone who rudely answered a question without knowledge and pretened to have the same.

[M.Dandaneau]

As I said, we all have bad days, but don't you think you're being a bit hostile about all of this?
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but you appear to have some sort of axe to grind, not the neatest way to enjoy a hobby that I've ever seen.
As for Phd's, I've known people who have them and still lack common sense, making it only truly valuable in case of an unexpected attack of Montezuma's revenge.
I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but if you carry this sort of antagonistic attitude with you into bars, I'm surprised you haven't been seriously hurt.

[daytona955]

Been into many a bar and managed to get out alive. My comment was merely a congrats to the writing of this article and it seems you needed to make comments about it (grin) and had an axe to stike back with of your own! I was merely stating a fact as I have been dealt with about an idividual that seems to think he knows quite a bit (and probably does about something) that stretched his knowledge, or lack there of, a bit too far and decided to degrade someone and tell them what a bad person they were for thinking of having a lion in a 180g.

As or the PHD thing, you are probably right, but I would tend to believe someone with a PHD a bit more than someone with anecdotal knowledge who can not back it up with any research or fact. The whole "contientious" aquarist thing can only be stretched soooo far. Beyond that it is just a cop out to say I don't know so you shoudl not try it!

Further after speaking with some from my own reer club ( no names mentioned or clubs mentioned) they seem to think he is a pompous jerk as well and did not enjoy his attitude either on his last visit.

As for live and let live, try offering something positive rather than just handing out blanket statements without any backing about how someone is doing the wrong thing for no explained reason.

Lastly once again this was not directed at either of you (Mr. D or Mr. Calfo) but a congrats to the author for a well written article. Once again I offer congrats on a piece of literature with some research and scientific backing.

[M.Dandaneau]

It just seems sad to let what appears to be a personality conflict or misunderstanding degrade to this point where people are attacking others on a personal level.
Frank Marini (the author of the article) is among those I now consider a friend, as is Anthony and Bob Fenner, all of whom I consider to be extremely knowledgeable,

In my case, there's no Ph.D.. as my college was interfered with by Viet Nam, but I did set up my first marine tank in 1969 and have been fortunate enough to watch the entire marine hobby grow from its infancy, often with todays "way it has to be done" changed by one little discovery somewhere along the line.

Degrees are highly over-rated , IMO, in this country because a formal college education is NOT the only way to gain knowledge and in no way makes that knowledge any more or less valuable than same obtained by reading and experience.

Many of our famous leaders, like Abe Lincoln, who were largely self taught would be looked down upon and sneered at in today's good ole USA with many asides about dumb hicks, etc.,
etc.
If you want to disagree with someone, that's one of our rights here in America and happens very frequently, but I personally would consider it a favor if you left name calling and macho bravado out of it, particularly in print.

Your opinion of someone is just exactly that, and even among your peers, many would probably not appreciate you taking private conversations among yourselves and including them in blanket statements in what appears to be a particularly nasty personal grudge presented in anything but a civilized, educated manor.

Yes, it IS an extremely well written and researched article, one of the best in the area that I've seen.

[daytona955]

Out of respect for the author and this thread about him I'll not continue this debate any further here as it seems we could go round and round wihtout either of us seeing the other's point.

[billsreef]

Originally posted by M.Dandaneau
No comment about me finding a Rhinopias frondosa for $79.99 at all? About a life long dream finally realized?

Why you @#$#@#@%$ $%%%^%@#$@**grin**
See?

Well now that the jealousy has subsided

You lucky son of a scurvy sea dog

BTW, it's good to see you back

[M.Dandaneau]

I'm trying to be more of a lurker this time, but sometimes I just can't resist.
At least one old trail horse needs a burr put under the blanket once in a while to keep it from turning into a Merry-Go-Round.
Awesome deal, huh?
By day four it is eating out of tweezers with my whole arm and hand underwater in front of it, so I think I can athoratively say THIS one is not shy.
This is a 30 year dream come true just when much else was beginning to smell suspiciously like a sewage plant!!!
To make it even better, a friend brought me over a 1 1/2" Lachnolaimus maximus, the Florida Hogfish, to replace the one I lost a couple of years ago.
Now all I need is an Inimicus and all will be at peace in the world!

[jwm2k3]

Lachnolaimus maximus, delicious. I hope it grows big and fast.

BTW, HI MIKE!!!!!

[M.Dandaneau]

Howdy. I've got an edge with these, as I've kept them and know that they are relatively slow growing, very peaceful, even when large, and long lived as well (that's why the "boars"/Supermales are the only huge ones, as with Titan Groupers).
Think of the irony, when a smaller female says "not tonite, I've got a fin ache" and the big guy replies,"Don't give me that gill, remember I've been there, done that!" LOL!
The last one I had was just reaching 4.5" at 2 years of age when it took the "leap of death" through an amazingly small hole, but I also have 3 public aquariums that will take them if hand raised, all within driving distance for the day it DOES get too large.

[Plantie]

Great to have you back Mike, ive missed your posts!