Least aggressive Dwarf Angel?

[In Deep Water]

Singapore Angels are very docile. I would def reccomend one. They have a ton of personality and they stay to themselves.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by MrSpiffy
I'm thinking that many of the people wanting to keep dwarf or pygmy angels is that they have smaller tanks. The Genicanthus species is a larger angelfish that requires a good 100 gallons or more.

In any case, I probably won't ever get a larger angelfish unless I have a pretty big system to spread out the aggression and/or nipping/eating of corals and clams. Otherwise, I'd get a dwarf or pygmy to avoid those issues all-together. It's always oh-so-tempting to get a pygmy. But restraint is required, since I have a small tank and can't afford for that little fish to wreak havoc on my 30-gallon.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but it might be worth it for some of you. I know that the Swallowtails and Wantanabe's are a bit larger, but the Lamark's is often imported much smaller, and can be kept in tanks as small as 75g. The others are 100g and up. They may be larger in size, but their actual attitudes and territories are much smaller than a pygmy angel. I have a Lamark's in a 40B, even with fairy wrasses, and he's still a model citizen. If that were a cherub even, other fish would be getting killed. Even though the cherub is one of the smallest, it has one of the worst attitudes. Its not so much about the size they grow to, but the attitudes they tend to get as they get older. Pygmy Angels are some of the worst as far as that goes. As far as a realistic tank size to keep one in, I would consider 75g to be the minimum for most like the Coral Beauty, Potters (my fav), Flame, etc. You can get them to be about 5", but their attitudes at this size will dominate even a 75g. A swallowtail can be 6" and it will not bother anyone else. And pygmy's can be nasty little buggers even when smaller. Not so with swallowtails. You can have a whole group of swallowtails in a 6' tank and they will get along just fine. They have grown on me, can you tell? Really a pleasing group of fish.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

hahnmeister,
I tend to disagree with you a bit. I have kept a Coral Beauty Angel in every tank I have ad since the early 90's. One I had for about 5 years in a 45G hex tank. All were model citizens and never bothered anything. Very docile in my opnion. In my last 45G hex, it was my Marron Clown that was the bully. In my current 400G tank, I have a CB that has been with me for just over a year. No problems. When I added in my Rusty angel, it chasd him for about a day, now they hang out together. When I added my potters, they bot chased him for a couple of days, now he's fine and they don't even look at him.

Part of the problem people have, IMHO, is that they do not feed their fish regularly. I am of the belief and have seen it for years in my tanks, that if you keep your fish well fed and taken care of where they are stress free, they are happier and more content and tend to stay away from your prized corals and get along with the rest of the fish. Again, JMO.

[hahnmeister]

Well sure, there are different fish with different personalities and all... thats for sure. I might be able to keep a pink-tail trigger with cleaner shrimp in a 55g, and the next guy might have one that eats every crab and shrimp in a 180g tank. But in general, the pygmy angels are anything but small when it comes to their attitudes. Of course, if you combine them with a maroon clown, or more aggressive fish, they will be less bothersome, but it really depends on each tank. My tanks have some cleaner shrimp, lots of LPS, SPS, and clams. You can most likely get away with many larger and more hostile fish than I because you have 400g to work with. So the habits of the angelfish feeding on corals is more spread out. You might be able to keep full size angels in a tank that big that could eat LPS and stony corals clean in a 100g.]

I had a coral beauty and a potters in a 60g. Both took to nipping at the clams within weeks of their arrival and so had to go. The CB also killed the skunk cleaners.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

You are correct in that each fish will be a little bit different, same as us and any other animal, we all have different personalities and act different. But I have had good sucess in a 45G tank with Coral beauty angels, even without the clown. In all the years that I've been keeping fish, more so since I started keeping reefs in '90, I've become more aware of my fish's habbits. I have seen that if I tend to keep them fed and happy, they do not bother other things.

I've also seen that we can "train or condition" our fish to behave certin ways. For example, I bought my 400G as a complete setup. The guy had it for about 4 years. All he ever fed the fish was sinking pellets. All I had ever been feeding my other tanks was frozen cubes that float. I tried feeding my new fish and tank frozen foods. The fish totally ignored it. If I put sinking pellets in the tank, they were all over it. If I took the same frozen food and thawed it out where it would sink, they were all over it. After 2 years, I now have the fish "conditioned" to take floating frozen food from the surface. It took awhile for them to learn that I was the one feeding them and that it was food floating on the surface. I've seen this in other tanks I have as well when introducing new fish. They learn from the other fish that it's food up there and so they start trying it out. Conditioning.

Everyone will have different results from their fish and tanks. So to arbatrairly say that this fish or that fish will behave this way is mute in my opnion. They will all behave according to their enviroment. Either that or I've just been Damn lucky with all the fish I've kept in my reefs over the last 17 years.

[hahnmeister]

Something that might be more of a factor in your setup as well might be the balanced agression that some achieve in their systems by keeping mutually hostile fish which balance each other out.

Back in the early 90's I was keeping alot of predatory fish, and then got into breeding african/tanganyikan cichlids big-time. Now, compared to 'community fish', the cichlids are terrors (keep in mind that damselfish are pretty much smaller, saltwater versions of cichlids)... but you could keep a tank full of multiple species simply by matching the levels of aggression. Sure, if I would have put piranhas in there, or even perch or other community fish, they would have been dead in a day, but because all the cichlids had similar levels of nasty, they got along very well.

I had a friend who tried to keep a smaller african with his larger south americans though... and due to the different communication patterns between african and american cichlids, and the levels of aggression that went with, the smaller african destroyed the larger south american.

Considering Maroon clowns can be bastards in their own right, I have no doubt that coral beauties would be a compatible fish. Keeping some anthias, or fairy wrasses might be a different story.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I've kept African, South American and American Ciclids all in the same tank with little problems.

I also have wrasses in my tank with the dwarf angels as well as a bellus angel and a majestic angel. Still no agression problems. The only agression problem I see in the tank is between a pair of yellow tangs and even that is not bad. Again, it may just be the setup and the way i take care of my fish that keeps me from having the many problems that others see. I try to feed at least once a day if not more. maybe that's the key. I don't know.

[hahnmeister]

Well, the odd thing about tanganyikans is you can get some real firecrackers. I used to breed lamprologus nigriventris, and this fish has to be one of the fiercest fish, pound for pound (okay, except for shell-dwellers), when it comes to tanganyikans. But in a mixed tanganyikan tank... no problem. Same goes for the malawi zebra. Nasty, but okay with other africans. Put then in a south american tank, and its a bloodbath. See, african cichlids and americans use different communication systems. When a firemouth or severum locks lips with another, its for show of force, and usually pretty tame... its almost like a handshake. For an african, it means its time to kill or be killed, as their version of a handshake is often a fin-flaring show and some nipping. If an african locks jaws with an american cichlid, the american will want to let go, but the african will keep fighting until its torn up that lower lip or worse. You wanna see a fight? Put geophagus and lamprologus in the same tank... every time the geophagus opened its mouth to do its 'earth moving' the lampro was right there to lock jaws with it.

[Pmolan]

My potters angel kisses the glass, I see kiss marks all over the algea on the glass.

[InvaderJim]

Originally posted by aschroeder
Now you're tempting me. How big is your tank?

I've got them in a 10g right now but will be transferring them to a 40g in th next week or so. They are doing great together. I love him.