What rare angel is the least owned?

[H.Tanaka]

Thanks all,

The pattern on face depends on individual, from complicated to plain blue with brownish spots, but these cannot be seen in this species from Japan to Taiwan or Hong Kong.

C. chrysocephalus is much more complicated in coloration on side as you know.

[Vili_Shark]

Hello Tanaka san,
What happened to the blue Line? did you feed him sponges?

[H.Tanaka]

Hello Villi-Shark,

I tried all the items I had but it accepted a single time frozen shrimps but after that it did not take the same foods at all. No sponges then.

[Vili_Shark]

So the fish died?
Or did it survive from the live rocks?

[H.Tanaka]

Eventually it died in a month.....

[copps]

Originally posted by copps
and then you've got rare varieties of the common fish such as the all yellow and white xanthic regal angel...

Following my earlier comment up with a photo! Ever seen one of these there in Japan Hiroyuki?

[H.Tanaka]

Thanks for the beautiful photo.

I have never seen such a xanthic fish before my eyes. These variants rarely enter our market mainly in Tokyo if available and we added some pics in our book. Shown there are those from the Maldives (photo by Rudie Kuiter) and the Solomon Islands (by a diving team of Casey Mahaney & Astrid Witte).

[NexDog]

Originally posted by H.Tanaka
This is an approximately 18cm long Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis (Blue-lined Angelfish) from Vietnam. It may take sponges but it did not accept any food offered in my tank. It is too large to feed on successfully but is a graceful addition to any tank.

The color pattern on face is complicated and it seems a link between C. septentrionalis (from southern Japan to Taiwan) and another valid C.chrysoceplalus (from Indonesia).

The specimens from Vietnam need DNA study.

Hitoyuki, if you ever see one online in Japan, please let me know!

[H.Tanaka]

Hi Laurence,

Yes, I will inform you as soon as possible, but I should ask you about the specimen you need. Do you need a normally colored one? Or those from Vietnam ?

The latter, however, is always too large to keep successfully or may nip polyps of your precious corals, and also it will require much cost; I bought it some US$110,- (at Papi !). Anyway I will inform you when I found.

[NexDog]

I'd like a sub-adult or juv if possible. Any type is fine as long as it's small enough.

By the way, on Sunday I received a 1" Red Sea Regal Angel baby from BoraBora. I have never seen such a specimen available anywhere. Cost 35000Y delievered though - ouch!

If you could tell Papi that I'm after one and to hold one if they get one I'd be most grateful.

[JCDelbeek]

Given some of the recent comments about how long these fish survive, I feel somewhat compelled to comment, forgive me if I come across as judgemental. I find it disturbing that these fish are being treated more as collectables than as living animals with the intent of being kept for the remainder of their natural lives. Too often I see people bragging of how they have kept a "difficult" to keep fish for "months" so they are really easy to keep.

I don't feel it is right to purchase these adult lined angels when it is well known that they do not survice for long. It is most likely that these facial markings are the signs of maturity and one could do just as well to acquire a juvenile, with a greater chance of survival and grow it to maturity to achieve the same colouration. Since angels can live for 30-40 years I think the onous should be on the aquarist to provide the means for these fish to live a normal lifespan.

Stepping off soapbox.

Aloha!
Charles

[alikatoes]

I would have to agree with the above. Large angels with specialized diets are difficult to feed and care for. Why risk eliminating the source of more juvi's. The breeders should be left in the ocean to procreate, that will benifit our industry and the natural ecosystems.

Something should also be said about the collectors who knowingly supply such specimens. On the topic of rare angels, Adult Bandit angels from Hawaii are known for poor survival in captivity, yet some divers still collect them to make a few bucks. Very very bad... Anything over 5" should be a no no for Bandits. The moral local wholesalers wont even buy bandits over 5" but there are some that dont feel the same.

Hey Charles, could you share some knowledge about bandit angels and how a collector could be more responsible with this particular species (captive care included)? I occasionally pick up some small ones (I have a 3" in my tank) and I have in the past (very very ignorant) captured some larger ones. As I learned about the species I understood that large specimens decompress very poorly and if they survive that they usually starve to death. If anybody out there is collecting any rare angels, be aware of similar problems. Its not worth it!

"The world was not left to us by our parents, it was lent to us by our children". I hope my children can see juvi rare fish one day.

[JCDelbeek]

Those who are experienced with decompressing fish do a very good job with bandit angels. Unfortunately, there are too many who are not experienced who really have no business collecting this fish. As with most angels, the smaller they are the better the chance of getting them to feed. Even then they can stop eating for weeks and then start again.

Fortunately, the fish is not rare and there are populations of these fish out of reach of most collectors.

The best advice is to get the fish eating before shipping it out. Those that refuse to eat after three weeks should be released. Those that eat should then be treated, fasted and then shipped out. NEVER release fish that have been treated with antibiotics back to wild, especially those species that are food fish when larger e.g. goatfish.

Aloha!
Charles

[alikatoes]

Heres my little bandit. I know its a horrible picture compared to all the nice ones yall been posting. My male Crosshatch trigger decided to stick his head in the picture. I am holding the a crosshatch pair, flame wrasse harem, and the bandit angel for my own 150gal fish only tank.

Hey Charles, what are the implications of releasing medicated fish? Are there concerns of bioaccumulation if they are consumed? Could you elaborate a little?

[JCDelbeek]

Some medications are not meant for human consumption and you don't want to release a fish that may carry bacteria that have become resistant to an antibiotic. Its a big issue in aquaculture at the moment.

Aloha!
Charles

[pennyguy23]

Can anyone just go out in the ocean and collect fish. I see more and more people stating they are collecters. Don't you have to have a liscense or something?

Great thread by the way. I love angels and like hearing what everyone thinks about them and I really like to see and hear about the rare ones. Its hard to find info on them.

[JCDelbeek]

You need a license but the type depends on whether you are collecting for private use only or commercially. In the US, as far as I know, all you need to do is pay the fee and you get a license. In Australia, the number of collecting licenses are controlled and not easy to get.

Aloha!
Charles

[Kahuna Tuna]

This is a great thread, awesome pics everyone. Here's a pic of my current fish, a flagfin angel. Not a rare angel by any means but somewhat unusual to get a nice healthy eating flag.


I really love angels and always strive to give them the best environment possible and I consider all of my fish pets rather than collectibles. I agree that many angel species should be left in the sea especially as they are one of those fish that is prone to cyanide collection. I always try to buy mine from localities that use proper collection techniques regardless of any extra expense.

[JCDelbeek]

Here is a pic of the one of our C. nahackyi in a holding tank .... it is about 3 cm long.

[nbd13]

Charles,

Where did you get that C. nahackyi from?

I have been looking for one and have come up empty every time.

What are your thoughts about relating the C. nahackyi with the C. multicolor? I have spoken with a few people that think the C. nahackyi is on it's way to be a new species. The people I spoke with think that the C. nahackyi are closely related to the C. muticolor.

I would be interested to see a DNA study done on both species.....

Could you tell me what you think?

thanks!

Nick

[nbd13]

I forgot to add, what are you feeding the young C.nahackyi? Very beautiful specimen you have there!

How many do you have in your facility currently?

thanks again.

Nick

[coralite]

I too think that the nakackyi and multicoor seem only slightly removed from each other. Dr. Brian Bowen of HIMB recently published a paper on the speciation of the Atlantic pigmy angelfishes from a probable acanthops-like ancestor so this seems like it would be a perfect project for him.

I am also a big fan of the flagfin angelfish. They are not that hard to get but long-term captive specimens in prime health are very rare IMO. You gotta love those blue lips!

[JCDelbeek]

Brian Bowen is working on the genetics of this fish. I will tell you more about this fish when the exhibit is open. Until then .... :-)

Aloha!
Charles

[Angel*Fish]

Originally posted by JCDelbeek
Here is a pic of the one of our C. nahackyi in a holding tank .... it is about 3 cm long.

What a beauty! It has a juvenile look to him... is he an adult?

[Angel*Fish]

Oh, sorry --- I was so captured by the photo I didn't read the accompanying info. Adorable little thing - glad it's in good hands!