NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[silverwolf72]

very nice job. Looks like a pvc monster attacking your tank! lol
Well just getting ready to do the plumbing on my tank so I'm glad I came across this thread first.

[Herbie]

Holy cow Dandy..............that looks like Frankentank! Thats more plumbing than some commercial aquariums have !!!
Nice job!
BTW........I figured out why your (our), Lifereef overflow wouldnt flow out the top bulkhead. When the flow in the overflow box reaches the emergency overflow, the siphon will slow down because at that point, there is not enough difference between tank water and outside overflow box water levels. So ........no siphon.........but the pump will continue to pump the same amount of water into the tank! Try it sometime while doing a water change..........if you hold a siphoning hose lower while it is draining it has much more flow........as you bring it up to tank water level, is slows down and eventually stops when you get to the same water level as the tank. Thats what was happening with our Lifereef boxes. I think mine seemed to work........only because I wasnt flowing as much water as you. I also noticed the same thing happening with mine, but on a much slower scale, and by the time the water equalized, my pump would start to suck air and cavitate.
I am beginning to think that this method of "ultra quiet overflow" is really much safer to impliment when using "reef ready" tanks with built in overflows ONLY. No siphons to hamper the flow! At least thats my conclusion.........It can work with siphon overflow boxes, but not as safe as with built in overflow boxes!
I didnt even know this thread was up for thread of the month.........again. Maybe it will win someday.........its really not important, just glad it has helped so many fellow reefers!!!
Later.............Herbie

[dandy7200]

Interesting Herbie. I know I just kept racking my brain trying to get it to work, and could never get it quite there, I was close, but not enough to be completely comfortable. I am actually using a "Double Herbie". My display is restricted to sump #1 that contains Protien Skimmer, phosban, carbon, heater, calcium reactor, dosing pumps etc. Then That sump is restricted to the Refugium sump at the end of the run. I have not noticed this to be any more difficult to maintain than with a "Single Herbie".
For others who might be looking at this thread for the first time because of thread of the month I would like to expand on some other benefits I have noticed from this system.
1. It's quiet. Well duh. But we are talking silent!
2. What is a micro bubble? No air entering the lines means no air exiting the lines.
3. Salt spray. Where? Not in my tank! No splashing, no mess.
4. Flow. I can push way more water through my returns like this with out disrupting anything. Many say 3x-5x flow through the sump. But at the same time we are encourage to tumble cheato. My 28 gallon refugia has a 20x turn over rate. If my skimmer misses something on the first pass, well thats why I have such a large macro area, or it will get it on the next pass.
5. It's easy. I have looked at many differant solutions that people come up with to control some of the above listed problems, and this you slap a gate valve on your return, and drape a emergency line above the sump so you can hear if something is not right.
6. It is safe! There are 25 pages here. Find a post where something went wrong when the simple directions were followed.... This is RC you would for sure find a FLAME if mass flooding occured....you wont.

Again Thank you Herbie, and VOTE!

[anutha newby]

Hi All,

I now and forever will use this method on my tank.
I have a 26 gallon display tank, 20 gallon high for a sump.

it works, it is silent, I have no fear of overflow. (I have a second emergency back up drain)

once you wrap your head around how this system works, it is painfully easy.

Free your mind, stop thinking in terms of a Durso.

this method is so simple.
- install a stubby stand pipe.
- install a taller back up stand pipe
- put a gate valve on your drain line.
- Adjust the gate valve to achieve desired water level in your overflow chamber.
- Sit back in enjoy the gurgle-free silence.

whenever you adjust the gate valve, the water level in your overflow chamber will adjust accordingly. An equilibrium of head-pressure and back pressure will be achieved, keeping the level in your overflow chamber constant.

I was ready to chuck my tank due to sump bubbling and gurgling noise, salt spray, and salt creep, soooooo much happier now.

Thanks Herbie!!
Thanks Herbie!!
(so thankful I had to thank him two times)

[guilford]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I'm in the process of setting up a new tank and I need help. I was wondering if I can use the Herbie method combined with feeding my skimmer from the drain from the tank. I've attached a diagram of what I was thinking of doing.



I will use gate valve #1 to adjust the level of the water in the overflow in the aquarium itself. From my understanding, that is the "standard" thing to do for the Herbie method.

After that gate valve, I was planning to tee the return between the feed for the skimmer and another line directly to the sump. Between the tee and the skimmer I would use another gate valve. I would adjust gate value #2 to provide slow flow through the skimmer. Closing up gate valve #2 would cause the remaining water (that doesn't go through the skimmer) to go down the other line directly to the sump.

I've read through this entire thread (yes, every post!) and I understand that it is very important to have a "constant" water level/pressure in the sump in order for the Herbie method to work properly. I'm not exactly a plumbing genius to say the least, but I was thinking maybe having gate valve #2 partially/mostly closed would create a "steady" back pressure that, when combined with the drain line to the sump being under the water level, would still allow this method to work okay.

So will this work, or am I crazy? If it won't work, I'll probably end up feeding the skimmer with a pump instead of from the drain. And either way, I will still have a second "emergency" drain from the tank because the overflow compartment has two holes drilled.

[rdmpe]

It might work, I think you'll just have to set it up and try it... As long as the skimmer backpressure is steady and the sump level is steady, it probably will work. But when you shut your skimmer off to work on it, your drains may misbehave until you have the skimmer running again. Then you may have to tweak the drain gate valve to get things back where you want them.

[dandy7200]

You could try it and see how it goes. I think it sounds like your going to be fiddling with the valves to much. I only make an adjustment maybe every 3-4 weeks, and even then it's only like 1/8 turn.
To be honest if you are using a H&S A200-1260 on a 58g then skimmer perfomance is probably not going to be an issue. I would plumb as reccomended and then thow a MJ600 in the sump to feed you skimmer.
You might ask around in the Deltec forum if anyone uses the herbie method for a gravity fed skimmer, as there is a lot of experience setting them up over there.

[cewalcott]

hello herbie
gladd to see after so many pages with out a post and so many early pages with nay sayers .by the way what happened to them.you popped back in. just wanted to say great job the world isnt flat after all. will soon be plumbing for "The Herbie Silent Cerculation System" I for one appreciate all of your efforts and your ability to with stand several nasty storms. just remeber dsb's can work, the world is round and your system does work

(Extra seven copies removed on poster's request)

[dandy7200]

First time I've ever seen a octople post! lol

[Newreeflady]

You could consider a float switch that would cut off your return pump if the water level in the overflow box got too high and threatened to flood over the top of the tank, this would provide redundancy to your emergency 3/4" pipe.

This was a good idea... I can't read 384 posts, I am considering trying this unless there are any objections. I can't set up a second standpipe for drainline, I have a lifereef overflow. Still, this is what I found worked for silence as well (I have a ball valve on the drain), but this idea is good, kill the return if the drain clogs. Just have to set the overflow box up high enough that when the return is killed, the siphon for the drain stops pretty quickly (small overflow box...)

-A

[hahnmeister]

Or this...

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=889167

Then branch the skimmer out of the box. Rather than try to manipulate the overflow with valves and restrictions... just keep the water from falling too far.

[reefinmike]

you are amazing. my next tank will be completely silent with all the equip a floor below.

[hahnmeister]

just remember, the longer the drop, the more the water accelerates... so the harder it is to deal with it.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by dandy7200
You could try it and see how it goes. I think it sounds like your going to be fiddling with the valves to much. I only make an adjustment maybe every 3-4 weeks, and even then it's only like 1/8 turn...

About the same adjustment interval, I don't even bother to clean the drain screen anymore as when I tried to clean it initially, I never could find much to clean off anyway. The system has been very stable for the last 8 months, which is how far back when I converted my durso into this.

Still no "emergency drain". I was too lazy to convert the second line from the pump return to that backup drain. For this once my laziness seems to have paid off so far.

[jaeden]

Just read 95% of this thread to be honest I by passed this thread many times thinking it was a little corny after reading I may have to reconcider understanding the concept and the need for gate valves for fine tuning this is my question which I hope someone can clarify , my tank is 125aga with dual overflow (4 holes)
return
main drain no1
main drain no2
emergency drain

main drain no 1 will go through the bulkhead to a gate valve to the intake in the sump

main drain no 2 will go through the bulkhead to a gate valve to the fuge

emergency drain to return section in sump

I would like less flow in the fuge is it possible to do this ?
Could I put a T on main drain no2 after the gate valve so if I was to reduce the flow to the fuge the excess saltwater would join main drain no1 and flow into the intake opions please .

[dandy7200]

First define less flow. 600gph? if it is that or less I would tie both drains together on a t (1 drain ea side) and put in a tee. Then put a single gate valve after the tee. This may or maynot work but it is worth a shot. It is far easier if it works to tune 1 valve rather that 2. Some people get luck and never have to touch the valve, I find that to keep it tuned dead silent I need to give it a 1/8 turn about every 3 weeks. Doubleing the valves could mean a substantially longer tune time. Second option would be to run only one drain, one backup plumb your return over the top and remove one overflow and plug the holes or use it as a closed loop. This is honestly what I would choose.

[jaeden]

My return will be a eheim 1260 around 600gph , I understand what you are saying but my sump is already configured it goes like this left to right

intake - skimmer - return - fuge

my original plan before this thread was to have no 1 drain to the intake no2 drain to the fuge with a tee so the overflow from no2 drains into no1 drain thus less flow in the fuge more in the intake again incorporating this with bernie's system is a different story another option is to forget the tee and have one drain to the fuge and the other to sump and adjust the gate valves accordingly I know this goes against what you are saying but I read something similar way back saying said person if were to do differently would have the two drains on seperate gate valves , I don't know I' m just going what I've read . thanks for the response.

[dandy7200]

Running the setup you have described this is what I would do to use 2 valves and have it be effective and easy to tune:

Drain #2 would be the right side going to your fuge. This valve if you close it most of the way so your are getting like 100 gph through it to feed the fuge. Once you get the gph set leave it and pretty much never touch it again.

Drain #1 would be on the left side and this would flow close to around 400gph and be your main drain. This one you can tune with the valve to get the water level set.

I would use the 2nd hole in drain # 1 as the return.
I would use the 2nd hole in drain #2 as your backup.

The reasoning for this is that if you start to overflow out your emergency drain at a rapid rate not only will you hear the crashing water in the normally quiet fuge but there will also be no bubble trap between this water and your return. Result = microbubble city in your tank and you will instantly have a visual clue as to something going wrong with your drains.

After using the setup for a while I have had small bits of water go to my emergency from time to time. The soud of the tank peeing alerts me and I know that it is time to give the valve a 1/8 turn open or clean my intake screen. I have used the full flow of the emergency one time when I put a bag in the tank to acclimate and it got sucked into my overflow and partially blocked the flow. When I saw it I pulled it away and immediatly at full force of 1000gph the tank "reset" the water level to where I had it tuned to. It was loud enough to scare the crap out of my unsuspecting guest . HTH

[guilford]

Does anyone know if this method will work with a couple of 90 elbows in the drain plumbing (as opposed to just running the drain line straight down from the tank to the sump)? If it will work with a couple of 90 elbows in there, is it better to put the gate valve before or after the elbows? Just trying to figure all of this out...

Thanks,
Brad

[dandy7200]

The principle of this is to restrict the drain so only water flows and no air. 90's restrict the drain. So you just close the valve less. 90's before or after will make no differance in the amount of (or lack of) air in the lines.

[jaeden]

Originally posted by dandy7200
Running the setup you have described this is what I would do to use 2 valves and have it be effective and easy to tune:

Drain #2 would be the right side going to your fuge. This valve if you close it most of the way so your are getting like 100 gph through it to feed the fuge. Once you get the gph set leave it and pretty much never touch it again.

Drain #1 would be on the left side and this would flow close to around 400gph and be your main drain. This one you can tune with the valve to get the water level set.

I would use the 2nd hole in drain # 1 as the return.
I would use the 2nd hole in drain #2 as your backup.

The reasoning for this is that if you start to overflow out your emergency drain at a rapid rate not only will you hear the


crashing water in the normally quiet fuge but there will also be no bubble trap between this water and your return. Result = microbubble city in your tank and you will instantly have a visual clue as to something going wrong with your drains.

After using the setup for a while I have had small bits of water go to my emergency from time to time. The soud of the tank peeing alerts me and I know that it is time to give the valve a 1/8 turn open or clean my intake screen. I have used the full flow of the emergency one time when I put a bag in the tank to acclimate and it got sucked into my overflow and partially blocked the flow. When I saw it I pulled it away and immediatly at full force of 1000gph the tank "reset" the water level to where I had it tuned to. It was loud enough to scare the crap out of my unsuspecting guest . HTH

Very good , thanks Dandy I shall give it a whirl that's what I wasn't sure off whether or not I could have 2 overflows dialed in differently , like you were saying one drain at 100gph and the other at 400gph and not bother with the tee from one drain to another , I'll show pics once set up thanks again . one more note fluctuation in the sump = fluctuation in the overflow chamber solved by auto top off would this statement be correct. If this works I shall be abandoning the durso method I had originally planned .

[rdmpe]

You are right about the ATO - I had some fluctuation until I got my ATO set up and now the water level in the overflow is very steady.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by guilford
Does anyone know if this method will work with a couple of 90 elbows in the drain plumbing (as opposed to just running the drain line straight down from the tank to the sump)? If it will work with a couple of 90 elbows in there, is it better to put the gate valve before or after the elbows? Just trying to figure all of this out...

Thanks,
Brad

I just want to add that the gate valve should be in the location of the easiest access, all other placements are secondary.

For the silent drain to work, the gate valve is often only 1/5 or even 1/10 open, it restricts the flow more than 10 to 20 elbows combined I imagine.

[dandy7200]

Jaeden, your overflow area in the sump is baffled as well as your refugium I assume so you should't get level flux. That being said go ahead and do it right the fisrt time and put in a ATO for all those other reasons.

[jaeden]

The more I think about this method the more appealing it is ,by being able to adjust the flow through the fuge differently than the intake actually reduces one less plumbing pipe (the pipe that joins drain 2 to drain 1 assuming that it works of course, looking forward to setting it up .