Thinking of kicking the bucket! - Page 2

eidillitih · #26 04/12/2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by useskaforevil
don't freshwater dip anything , it won't bother ich

done right it works, you just can't dip the fish and put him right back in the tank with ick, it defeats the purpose. Freshwater dip are good before introducing a new fish to a tank.

Rijinals, sorry buddy but your gonna have to take all those fish out and QT them if you want to truely get ride of the ick. Main tank needs to be 6 weeks without fish, I would go 8 myself. 5 to 6 weeks is the life cycle of ick but what if you have one that's determined, putting the fish in too soon can just destroy the 6 weeks you just made it though. That's a long time I know, but I rather make sure I have a clean tank before adding fish and go through this entire process again.

If you don't have the tanks for QT, you can always buy and storage bend from wal-mart and hang a filter on the side. If will be fine. Ick is a PITA, I know. It requires patience to cure it or it will NEVER go away.

Rijinals · #27 04/12/2007, 12:25 PM

Sorry to dissapoint AaronKelly but the Mighty Mighty Reds are going all the way!!!

i8chicken · #28 04/12/2007, 05:31 PM

Sorry to take so long to get back to you. When I quarentined everybody from my display, I used an old hand-me-down 55 gallon that somebody had glued a metal rod to the center for the brace.

I hid it in the spare bedroom so nobody would have to look at it. Now I've got a nice 20 long that is permenant. It's a good size since I don't need to quarentine alot any more (I've got a midas Blenny and a 6 line in there now).

How big are your tangs? Maybe you could find a larger cheap used tank like I did, or just use a few smaller ones?

Just a note on the Kick ick... I tried that too, at first. I thought it helped, but the ich ended up returning, even though there were no new introductions. It may work for some but all it did was empty my wallet.

All in all, I think more people have success with copper in a quarentine, and then being careful to quarentine new fish.

Good Luck! Hope it goes by fast for you!

puffer21 · #29 04/12/2007, 05:45 PM

1. how long has the tank been running
2. How big is the tank
3. what are the levels

Most of the time ich only shows up if there is a problem in the tank. I have seen ich then its leaves in a day or two you dont need to put the fish thought all that stress if all he is showing is spots mainly since you said he is eating. Most of the time it is a problem in husbandy

Canarygirl · #30 04/12/2007, 06:26 PM

What does "flicking" look like?

Seriously...I wonder if one of my fish is doing this.

Icefire · #31 04/12/2007, 06:36 PM

freshwater dip don't kill ich, only copper/hypo does and it need to be done 6 weeks.

QT without copper or hypo for 6 weeks is totally useless.

eidillitih · #32 04/12/2007, 06:36 PM

looks like a twitch in the fish, sometime darting, rubbing on rock sand, standing in front of strong water flow. more than you ask but thy're all sign of ick.

eidillitih · #33 04/12/2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icefire
freshwater dip don't kill ich, only copper/hypo does and it need to be done 6 weeks.

QT without copper or hypo for 6 weeks is totally useless.

what makes you think freshwater dip doesn't kill ick, did you do a freshwater dip and put that fish back in the ick infested tank? if you do a freshwater dip and look through a magnifying glass you actually see some of the ick popping off the fish. I've seen it myself!!

Canarygirl · #34 04/12/2007, 06:50 PM

What I've read about the freshwater dip is that it will kill some but not all of the parasites. Ones that are embedded deeply in the gills can escape.

Canarygirl · #35 04/12/2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

looks like a twitch in the fish, sometime darting, rubbing on rock sand, standing in front of strong water flow. more than you ask but thy're all sign of ick.

thanks...I guess my fish doesn't do this. He does jerk and "bang" his head repeatedly against the surface of the water, but he never scratches, rubs, darts, or tries to get in the water flow. Also no spots. He's been in QT for 3 mos for other reasons.

eidillitih · #36 04/12/2007, 06:56 PM

that is true, never said it will kill ALL ick but it will kill ick. That's why stated in a statement earlier that freshwater dip are usually done before adding a new fish to you tank. Thats fish with no real signs of ick. Once ick is in your tank, their are no short cuts. No taking fish out and dipping them in anything, especially if it has gotten bad and spread.

eidillitih · #37 04/12/2007, 06:57 PM

other reason? being bad or internal infection?

Phillybean · #38 04/12/2007, 07:03 PM

Your tank is 350 liters right? That would out to be 90 gallons (or a 92 gallon bowfront) I honestly think you have too many fish in that tank. Get rid of one of the tangs, and you say you have "Blue Cheek Gobys" how many or is that just a typo? Your fish are most likely stressed, for a few reasons, one of them being overcrowded.

The other is too much treatment imho. Take out one of the tangs and see whats happens. I can't remember what he said word for word, but PaulB (can't go wrong with 30 years experiance) had some comments on ich, basically being if the fish have a strong immunity they won't get it. If they don't because we are always treating them with something new, they'll always get it.

Icefire · #39 04/12/2007, 07:28 PM

It's a parasite, not a virus, I don't think they can have an immunity, just able to control it.

I think thebioload is normal if the tang are really small.

daveonbass · #40 04/13/2007, 02:13 AM

the ich parasite is a small invertabrate. The freshwater dip basically makes the parasite BURST off the scales. At the cellular lever the tiny parasites cells can not tolerate the amount of water trying to reach equilibrium around its body, this is due to the difference of being in fresh water versus salt water. The water is trying to fill up more of the cell and the cell wall is letting it, since it's used to allowing in as much freshwater as possible and blocking the salt minerals. once dipped in fresh water the cells just start taking in the freshwater and eventually fill up to the point that the cells BURST and the ich parasite dies/falls off.
I too have visibly seen this, and even did a demonstration of it at the LFS (who had never heard of it?) to the amazement of the people watching. I don't know what they thought would happen...it wasn't like a chemistry experiment that might explode...But that's how the people looked when I put a banner fish that was covered in ich into a tiny bath of RO/DI water. No one could belive that it lived, and yet we all watched as most, not all, but most of the ich popped off.

FW dips DO work. In fact ever since I did get my tank clear of ich...I have added fish strait into the tank with out useing a QT anymore. (I don't have room to keep one anymore) So from now on I float the fish in the bag from the store. As well as floating a bag of RO/DI water (and a couple of drops of the blue). after the TEMPS of both are the same as the tank. I dump the freshwater into a small container...a clean one. Then I net the fish from the store bag. Dip it in the FW+Blue. And wait about 3-5 min. Then pop it into the tank.

I don't recommend this OVER a QT tank. But it is a better attempt than NONE at keeping parasites out. And I have never had Ich since. Also I would like to note that I did this for a Rabbitfish that was covered in ich. I did however place him in a QT when I still had it. But I never treated the tank or the fish for anything. I knew my main display was Ich free. and so I added the foxface about 2 weeks later. Having not treated for the ich. The morning after I diped the fish I could not find a singe white spore on it. And I haven't looked back on it till now.
Ouarentining is the best method...and a FW dip is a great way to Explode the vast majority of the initial parasites. But DO NOT add the fish back to the main tank till that tank...and it's water...and the invertabrates in it have had a chance to wait out the life cycle of the ich. 2 monts + is the best advice. And if you do beat it then the tank will be ICH free...so the health of the fish will not matter. I have had a sick fish or two since I beat ich and I never had it come back to attack them simply based on the fish being healthy. Even healthy fish in the stores can have, and do get ich. But once it's gone it's gone for good. Then all it takes is a little prevention (which goes a LOOOONG way) to keep it out after that.

good luck...and again feel free to PM me.

zemuron114 · #41 04/13/2007, 02:30 AM

the only way to get rid of it is to QT all fish seperately for 6 weeks and leave the main tank fishless for this time as well. With the tangs, i would suggest doing hyposalinity and not copper.

this is really the only way to get rid of it. If the fish are all eating well then it shouldn't be a problem in the QT tank. Set it up with water from the main system (aged) and use a filter that is aged (maybe the one on the main system??)

This will jump start the process so you can get them out immediately.

G'luck

Rijinals · #42 04/13/2007, 02:33 AM

The PBT is large and the YT is medium for their sizes. All water parameters seem fine, thats why I feel I am banging my head against a wall!
QT is up and running and fish are going in today.

So you think if I cure the PBT, to sell it back to my LFS?

I have 2 blue cheeks in there, they are a mating pair!

Rijinals · #43 04/13/2007, 02:51 AM

I can not get Kick Ich over here in England. I think our Myxazin and Oodinex is similar stuff. Is it like a green liquid that dies your tank?

The QT I have got is 2ft by 1ft by 1.5ft. I have now got another bottle of copper based Cuprazin from the makers waterlife. It says its a 10 day treatment and should not be treated for any longer then that!
After 10 days shall I continue or just finish off with the hypo?

eidillitih · #44 04/13/2007, 09:06 AM

If it's clean in 10 days and looking much better I'd just do a water change and keep feeding. If he's not clean hypo may be the way to go

i8chicken · #45 04/13/2007, 04:58 PM

After you have treated with copper for the specified time. You should do a water change and run some carbon or a polyfilter to grab the copper out. Then you just leave your fish in the quarentine for the rest of the 6 weeks. Observe them carefully to make sure the ich does not reappear. If they are still ich free at the end of the 6 weeks, acclimate them back to your display tank.

While your fish are in the quarentine, watch your ammonia and Nitrite because the copper could kill off your good bacteria and start to cycle the tank.