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#1
02/17/2006, 07:26 PM
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hair algae?
It looks like I am starting to get a hair algae problem. Actually, I'm not even sure if it is hair algae, but it is green and looks hairy. Anyway, it is getting everywhere. What should I do?
Also, a little off topic, but my Coral Beauty Angel is starting to get HLLE I think. Look in my sig for what I feed. I feed twice a day and always a variety with some kind of suppliment added. Not sure what else I can do..... |
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#6
02/19/2006, 12:23 AM
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A few suggestions.
I am betting you have a nutrient problem with the occupants you have and the setup itself. Morays are messy eaters. Lots of wastes produced in not only food not eaten but excrement produced. I'd get a much larger skimmer. Prizms are good for maybe 20 gallons on a good day. That is with a tail wind.  Remove the U/G filter. I know that people can make them work and still do. But without proper maintenance you can end up in the situation you are in now. Excess nutrients causing algae. So the solution to your problems is a couple of things. No RO water. It is impossible to know exactly how "clean" the water from outside sources is. There are exceptions but generally stores aren't as concerned with how pure the water is for drinking as we are for keeping fish. Get an RO as soon as possible. Water changes. Start cleaning your tank weekly to remove excess nutients. In particular siphoning the crushed coral regularly to get wastes out. Water changes will aslo help remove wastes. Larger skimmer. Much larger. For hang ons on a tank that size I'd look at the Prism Pro at the very least. Get rid of the Crushed coral sand bed and U/G filter. There are many different methods that can give you a successful system. For beginners I'd suggest a Bare bottom tank or an aragonite based sandbed. Remove the moray if you can. They are great to have but can lead to problems as far as waste production in tanks that aren't capable of removing those wastes.
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Darren Beauty fades.... Stupid is forever...... "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) |
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#7
02/19/2006, 10:23 AM
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I'm afraid that I have to echo Darren's comments above. Dealing with micro algae problems almost always means removing nutrients from your water.
Once the nutrients that feed the algae are significantly reduced, the problem algae should die off on it's own in short order. There are occasions where the algae continues to hang on despite all your efforts, in these cases, it's weakened, and can be prompted to die if you boost your PH to about 8.6 and keep it as steady as possible, night and day.
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LARRY "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein I'm pretty sure it's Mike's fault..... |
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#8
02/20/2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
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#9
02/21/2006, 12:49 PM
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Ok, so last night I hooked up my new filter and removed the up lift tubes for the UGF. Now I have a powerhead in each of the rear corners. One points parrallel to the bottom, the other is on a 45 degree angle, as to break the surface a little (weak, but still).
I also did a 5% water change. I would have done more, but was out of fresh water. I will do more this week. Is there anything out there that naturally eats hair algae? Is there a plant I could introduce which would steal nutrients from the hair algae? I also cleaned under the eel's lair. No uneaten food, lots of dust though (which is now all over the hair algae). Also, Andrew, what do you feed your hippo tang? Mine got HLLE twice and I'm at my wit's end. |
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#10
02/21/2006, 07:21 PM
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I would just like to chime in with a little math.
Spring water from Wally World: $0.79/ gal 25% water change every month (could be more/less) = 9gal gas to wally world $4.00 per trip (conservative estimate) carrying 9gal of water = pain in the a** 9gal * $0.79/gal = $7.11/month $7.11 * 12months = $85/year 12 trips to Wally world = 12 * $4.00 = $48/year in gas ok so..... on average you would spend $85(water) + $48(gas) + time = $133/year on water So you say money is a major concern then there are the figures. A Great RO/DI Unit sells for around $150 and provides 'free' water. So over the course of two years you would SAVE $116 and on top of that you would be sure that you were putting the highest quality water in your aquarium. Plus saving the hassle of lugging around 108 gallons of water each year. Plus you have a machine that you can use for drinking water all year. Just my $.02 and I'm not saying this is the only way.... but it is what convinced me to switch to RO/DI. Oh, and for now if RO/DI is not in your budget I would start by getting some mexican blue leg hermit crabs (about 40 or more) they love Hair Algae from my experiences. You can find them online for under $1 each.
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90gal display 40gal propagation/refugium tank 30gal sump Last edited by rustybucket145; 02/21/2006 at 07:32 PM. |
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#13
02/22/2006, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
1) I only pay $0.50 per gallon, so that drops $0.29 per gallon (slightly more than one third the estimate). 2) My wife picks it up when she goes grocery shopping, so there's no extra cost for gas. 3) As for time, I make a few extra trips to the car when bringing in the groceries, which keeps me from putting them away longer.  4) Nothing in this world is free, including the water in my house. 108 gallons per year has a cost. Sure, small, but let's include that in the equation. 5) I don't drink water, I drink beer. Ok, ok, I have a Britta.6) Don't RO/DI units have replaceable filters? If I'm using one for two eyars, wouldn't I need to replace something along the way? 7) And as for trouble, don't you need to hook it up to a water source, empty the "waste" water, make sure you don't overflow the "good" water, etc? So the $116 savings estimate over two years is a bit skewed. One more inportant thing. The label on the water I buy states it went through reverse osmosis. (No DI though, to be fair) My motto, why work harder when you can work smarter?
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#14
02/22/2006, 09:35 AM
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In my 55 I have the same problem. I started getting a HA outbreak a while back even with RO/DI water. I also had a Prism skimmer that filled about every two or three days. Then I bought a different skimmer, about twice the recommended tank size. No change.
Finally, I started messing with the rock and found every place that had the HA had detritus/excess food buildup. Now I was like, duh. So I picked off as much HA as I could, swished the bad rocks around in the water--which caused a huge mess--and the outbreak stopped. There is still HA, but not as bad. When my wife and I were shopping the other day, I purchased one of those big turkey basters you find hanging in the pots and pans isle. I need to use that to clean the rocks regularly since my 55 does not have enough flow to move the bad stuff off them. Well, that was my experience, hope it can help you a bit. Get pulling and clean those HA covered rocks. |
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#15
02/22/2006, 10:25 AM
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Intersting idea about staying ontop of clean rocks. I have been battling HA for about a year now. I have a 40 gallon tank with southdown DSB, Tampa Bay Rock, and a Seaclone Skimmer with an air "wood" in it.
I am now changing the water regularly. 25% every two weeks. I had a recent tank renovation that included removing rox and scrubbing the HA off of them. It is coming back slowly but I am trying to prune it every couple days. However I attribute its slow regrowth to cutting back white light to 4 hours a day. Actinics are on for 8 (65Watt PC 2 months old). My N03 is zero and PO4 occasionally bounces between 0 and 0.5 I have been using nothing but Distilled water for Kalkwasser and water changes for about 6 months now. Once the DI system is in at work, that will then be the water of choice. Buying 20 gallons of Distilled at Walmart has become a pain in the arse. My fish load is light. Small 6 line wrasse, Small Blue Green, and an Algae Blenny that doesnt eat Hair Algae. Sally Lightfoot, and Emerald crab. Long Spine Unchin and a Green Urchin who is actually white because he doesnt eat Hair algae either. That and usually a bunch of local cape cod snails of various species that I pull out of the bay. Of course like everyone else from Cape Cod, they cant be bothered to do anything, let alone eat Hair Algae My next move this Friday is a Sea Hare ,and about 30 Blue legs and 10 Scarlet Hermit crabs. We will see how this works... I have a couple questions for you guys... 1. Doesn't Spring water often have PO4 in it? I recall testing the Poland Spring here and remeber that it registered on the PO4 test. 2. How do you go about vacuming a South Down DSB? Is there any good way? 3. I top off with Kalkwasser daily... yet still are having trouble getting above 8.2 on for my pH. How would I ever get to 8.6? I am dosing conservatively with Mg as I feel my system may be out of balance, but currently do not have an Mg test kit. 4. Do you think a lemon peel angel, or small 1" Yellow tang would help? Thanks for your help, I'm getting tired of fighting this damn battle, but feel things are getting better. Jeff |
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#16
02/22/2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
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#17
02/22/2006, 10:41 AM
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Just my opinion but I think your bioload is WAY to big for the skimmer you're using. Add to that the fact that you're feeding the tank twice a day and it would appear that the nutrient level in the tank has reached "critical mass". I would be curious what your Nitrate level is. Also, have you ever done any tests on the water you're getting from the grocery store?
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"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." |
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#18
02/22/2006, 11:57 AM
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I would not just take the lift tubes off of your UG. You will still get waste stuck in the gravel and may have some bacteria die off from the reduced O2. Try reverse flow. The waste accumalates on a sponge and you can remove and clean those. I don't know anything about your skimmer, so I cannot comment. I use a Remora Pro, but those have mixed reviews to. It is certainly better than my first skimmer ever was(SeaClown oops, I meant SeaClone.
)
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Glenn |
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#19
02/22/2006, 12:27 PM
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Craig, the nitrate level is actually pretty low. I have a Red Sea test kit and the nitrate level was one step above zero. I think that means .25, but I'm not at home and I don't remember the exact number.
glenns, I know my skimmer gets a bad rap, but it is actually pretty good. I don't get thick sludge, but what I do get is a lot, and it has a heavy stench (like low tide at the shore, for those of you who have been to the ocean), so i know it is working. It is just watery, that's all. I used to run NO skimmer before I had the cash to buy one. Yikes! conda, sounds like the Prism Deluxe was working fine for you also. I have a large turkey baster and use it often to kick up the dust. I pick up all rocks about once every three months and clean underneath. It gets the water VERY cloudy to the point where I cannot see the back of the tank. The filter clears it up in a few hours. I try to do this only 4 times a year, since it can't possibly be good for the fish. The starfish loves it though. JSB, what is PO4? For the pH, what about using buffer? Although I think 8.6 is too high of a number. All, I am thinking about cutting back my light 2 hours, from 12 hours/day to just 10, and adding some more blue-legged hermits. |
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#20
02/22/2006, 01:16 PM
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PO4 is Phosphate. I just checked mine and it is zero. As much as you hate to do it... Try cutting back on your white light. Even 10 hours is a lot. Like I said I am running 4 hours of white light. I dont know how much energy the Actinics provides to the algae, but I know its less then the white light. Ive heard of others only running actinics as well to deal with their HA.
I will let you know how the Sea Hare works, but this may not be an option for you because of your eel. If Sea Hares get scared or bit, they can release Super Ultra Toxic Purple Dye of DEATH!!!! or so Ive heard... I guess this dye can kill off an aquarium. Check your Phosphate. If there is any, thats your first problem... You'll never get rid of the HA with PO4 registering. I have tried using a buffer, it made my KH go thru the roof. Dr Anthony Calfalo sp? Told me that buffers really are not a good way to raise pH... He said Water Changes and Kalkwasser is much safer. Last edited by JSB5776; 02/22/2006 at 01:28 PM. |
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#21
02/22/2006, 01:25 PM
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you can purchase a basic RO-DI (no multi sediment filters) unit for 90$ online.
If youre going to continue buying jug water at the store you might want to find a place that will sell you distilled, or RO/DI water at a reasonable per gallon fee instead of the spring water jugs. Maybe even mix the two to dilute the cost of distilled. Some people buy it from their LFS, to mixed results though. I wish i had really known how expensive this hobby was going to be, i had my hunches, but never thought it would be this bad. Sure you can do things the budget way, most people have to at the start. but the fact of the matter is, the more time and $$$ you dump into a tank (to a certain degree!) the easier it is to maintain it, and fix problems. If you arent able/willing to make concessions on these things, HA will probably always be a part of your future. youll just have to keep picking away at it.
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I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand Walking through the streets of Soho in the rain He was lookin for the place called Lee Ho Fook's Gonna get a big dish of beef chow mein |
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#22
02/22/2006, 01:43 PM
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As for my lights, I have a 4 ft. Jebo light. There are 4 lights in it, each at 55 watts. Two are white, two are blue. I heard Jebo does not make actinics, so I think they are just "blue". It only has one plug, for the entire fixture (although two on/off switchs, one for white, one for blue). I have it on from 8:30 - 8:30. The reason is, my wife feeds the fish before leaving the house at 9 and I like to have some time when I get home (6:00) with light, and some time without light so I can search with a flashlight. If I cut one set of lights down, I cut all light down.
I do not have a phosphate test kit. My tank is only a FOWLR so I didn't think I needed a full blown reef test kit. My LFS is a rip off on everything, so I won't be getting water there. I just bring my kid there to look at some fish. Maybe I'll get some hermits there. They can't screw that up right? Here's a new thought. I have an 18 watt UV I use for parasites (100 GPH). Could I run a higher flow though it to reduce the HA? |
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#23
02/22/2006, 02:13 PM
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The UV may help kill any free floating HA before it settles on roxks, but it wont help the HA thats growing. Definitley go out and buy a PO4 kit. When your holding up that blue test tube, you will probably have your answer.
I recommend the Aquarium Pharmacueticals kit as it definitely gives the most tests for the money and is the simplest to use. How old are your lights? As the lights age, the wave lengths they produce shift toward the red I believe. This will also aid in algal production. When you replace the lights, buy some good coral life lights. A simple rewire can add another cord to your light hood. Recently Ive added some good size (5") shaving Brushes to my tank. They are growing well and I'm sure taking in a decent amount of nutrients... Last edited by JSB5776; 02/22/2006 at 02:46 PM. |
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#24
02/22/2006, 03:15 PM
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The lights are about 5 months old. I'd like to hold off until 12 months to replace them. But definitly at least 9 months. I will look into a phosphate kit. Now if the kit says I have high amounts, how do I reduce it?
I'm no DIYer, so I'll probably leave the light the way it is. Plus I'd have to buy a new auto-timer since the one I have is good for only one plug. I have had two shaving brushes previously at different times, but they both died. I should also say that for 12 months I have never had HA. So something recent must have brought this on. Maybe I'll try another shaving brush. Keep in mind though, I have crushed coral, not sand. Not sure if that makes a difference. I'll also get some more hermits. Would snails also help remove it? Thanks for the help everyone. Once I get the tank looking respectable again I'll post some pics. |
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#25
02/22/2006, 03:45 PM
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I dont think snails will remove a lot of PO4, they may tie it up for a while and incorporate it into their cells as they grow, but they probably excrete a significant amount that they have taken in. You can use macroalgae and clip it to physically remove it. You can use Phosban or Phosguard in your filter to bind it then dump the binding agent. Or you can precipitate it out and vacuum. I don't quite understand it but high levels of Kalkwasser will precipitate PO4. I have recently purchased Phosphate Down by HBH. It is supposed to bind PO4 and precipitate it from the water column. Then you can vacuum the crushed coral and get rid of it. I have southdown, so it doesnt work that great for me, plus it made my skimmer go INSANE. It may work well in your case, just turn off the skimmer. Other then that, lotsa water changes... And cut back on your feeding.
Also when you get your test kit, test the spring water. It may have a registerable PO4 in it. I would buy Distilled if I were you. Its 0.68 cents at Walmart. Its worth the extra $1.80 per 10 gallons to be sure there is no PO4 in it. |
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