Experienced Shark owners I need some advice

[shy07guy]

First off I am doing research to see what it would take to keep sharks in a 1900gal pond. I have never tired keeping them so please do not flame me. I work at a LFS where we are thinking of turning our koi pond into a shark pond. The pond was originally set up to be this but do to time it was just easier to make it fresh water and put koi in it. Like I said the pond is 1900gal has at least a 15w UV sterilizer on it and about 4 feet tall by 2 foot diameter for some kind of skimmer. Pipes would be run on the bottem of the pond for flow but as to what the sharks like I not know whether it be turbulent or circular. I just wanted to get any advice or knowlegde from those who are keeping sharks.
Thanks in advance
Derek

[Absint Reefer]

is this pond indoor or outdoor

[Lrgclasper]

I don't really understand your question. Do you want to know what kind of sharks too keep and filtration?

[shy07guy]

both would be good sorry for the confusion. The types we were thinking of would be horn sharks maybe a black tip although I know that would not ba a long term home. Also a ray or two.
Derek

[LiteEmUpGood]

Is this indoor or outdoor?
Dont get a black tip. Bamboo sharks stay small. You shold also comsider Remora fish.

[shy07guy]

indoor

[Sun_Shining]

about 4 feet tall by 2 foot diameter

Are these the dimensions of the pond??

[Sun_Shining]

What type of shark movement do you want? More traditional free swimming like the big ocean water sharks? or more like sand sharks or bottom dwellers?

Epaulette sharks mostly are sand dwellers. They nose around in the sand bed and rocks. Cat sharks are kinda of a blend between the Eps and the Black Tip type sharks, they nose around a bit, but do a lot of free swimming. Black tips are really like the big ocean sharks and swim all the time. There are horn sharks, bamboo sharks, etc.

Your best bet would be to invest in the Aquarium Sharks and Rays book. Really lays out what sharks/rays are aquarium suitable and their basic characteristics, tanks size, feeding, etc.

Derek, I think i know just the person you need to ask this question too, but yes many of us do know much but yet i know that at this site http://grimreefers.com/ in the shark and ray forum mattiej may be best suited to answer many of your questions and do tell him that Buddy sent you
Buddy ><{{{{">

[shy07guy]

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Sun The 4 by 2 is just the area for the skimmer the pond is more like 16 feet long and 5 or 6 feet wide and 2 or 3 feet deep. It is not a rectangle so we estimated the 1900gal
we were looking to do a kind of mix of sharks and rays.

Dragon thanks for the link I will try to contact him

Derek

[Lrgclasper]

I personally love horn sharks.... They stay a reasonable size, have amazing personalities, and are not too hard to keep once aclimated. The only hitch is you need to find Mexican Hornsharks if your tank is tropical.

[Lrgclasper]

You might also consider a port jackson shark. I would stay away from any carcharhinid sharks as they get to big and are very active.

[shy07guy]

The port jackson is the exact horn I was thinking of. Besides the black tip getting to big is there anyother reason to stay away from it? I understand that they will out grow the pond fairly quickly but since this is going to be in the store and not my perrsonal pond it has the added advantage that when something gets to big the wholesalers will gladly buy it back and sell it for even more though I am sure transporting the shark is not easy on it so I am not saying we are going to go out and get 2 right away.
Derek

[Jeffie]

Blacktips are only easy to ship when they are small. When they are large they need to shipped by a semi truck with a special tank made to transport the shark or by a plane doing the same. Do not get a black tip. Look up Dynasty Marine from Florida. They collect most of the sharks in the public aquarium world and look over what they use to ship these large animals.

[shy07guy]

Ok thanks for the advice. I was wondering how they would transport them once they get more then a couple of feet. And even though we have a van and can drive down to la in adn hour I still dont think we would beable to transport it safely.
So is there any problem mixing a horn with other sharks and rays?
Derek

[shy07guy]

Aside from the types of sharks what about filtration or flow?

[Lrgclasper]

I would avoid sting rays. I have seen situations where a ray has stung a horn shark. Sharks tend to get pretty crazy around feeding time, regardless of specie. You can clip the stinger off, however.

You want lots of filitration and flow. I personally use a sump with bioballs and live rock coupled with a fluidized bed filter. The live rock helps with nitrates and the fluidized bed does not become a nitrate factory like a wet/dry does. You gotta remember these a big messy animals, so you cannot overdue filtration- go big.

Derek, i guess from your further questioning and issues on the idea to what you wish to do is still with lots of questions, well then maybe i can further convence you that you should contact mattiej at http://grimreefers.com/ in the sharks and rays forum, Here is something about him:

In the three post below are of his own writing and not my own

Let Me Introduce Myself by mattiej

I have been asked by the other moderators on this site to serve as mod for this forum.

I have degrees in marine biology/mariculture and chemistry from Millersville University. I was a biologist at the New Jersey State Aquarium for five years before I started my own environemntal testing labs. My main duties at the aquarium were to care for the large ocean tank and all the sharks at the aquarium. I have also worked at a few other aquariums in situations similar to an exchange program. I have either worked with professionally or kept the following sharks: browns, sand tigers, lemons, bulls, hammerheads (scalloped), bonnetheads, sharpnoses, dogfish (smooth and spiney), dwarf chain dogfish, nurse, sawfish, wobbies, cat sharks, bamboo, angel sharks, leopards, Atlantic black tips, Pacific black tip reefs, white tips, and white sharks (volunteered on a white shark tagging program off New Jersey coast). I have been a certified SCUBA diver for the last 15 years.

While attending college and for a period after graduation I worked in the pet industry as the regional livestock manager for a large retail chain. During this time I started an aquarium maintenance firm with clients that ranged from doctors, hospitals, and schools. I still maintain several aquaria for a few clients but the bulk of the business was sold to another gentleman. I have worked with wholesalers and retailers to develop sound marketing and target plans for new aquarium stores.

I have been keeping saltwater aquariums for well over twenty five years. Presently I have the large shark pool (soon to be more than doubled in size), 220 gallon SPS reef, 125 FW live bearer tank (more my wife's), 75 gallon seahorse tank, 29 gallon 'Nemo' tank (mated pair ocellarius clowns and one large BT anemone), 55 gallon moon jelly tub, and a 1200 gallon garden pond complete with show Japanese koi.

I hope that I can be of service to those who may want my advice and help. I am looking forward to learning from those on this site that are more experienced and knowledgable.

=======================================

Collection Trip Slated for June

I have made all the arrangements for a 10 day collection trip to the wonderful waters of South Carolina. Two of my favorite sharks inhabit these waters and there are no size limits on them in state waters. I was fairly successful on a trip last summer but with the new lagoon on the way decided to give it another trip or two to stock the lagoon. I already have several charter trips scheduled and will be staying near one of the best piers for sharking, Hunting Island. While fishing from this pier last year I saw quite a few 6 to 7 feet black tips caught as well as a 10 foot tiger shark. Scalloped hammer pups are quite common the time of year I will be down but none will find their way into my system (most don't do well in captive systems, except for bonnets).

I have made some modifications to my transport system and am hoping to be able to transport more sharks than in the past. Previously I have only been able to SAFELY transport up to five or six pups that were under 25 inches. With the new system and filtration I hope to up that number to seven or eight. Of course my first priority will always be to the health and welfare of the sharks. I have added compressed oxygen cylinders to the system and a mobile protein skimmer. The insides of the transport tub will be lined with styrofoam sheets to aid in cushioning any collisions with the sides and to help with temperature control. I have also upped the size of the tub from 155 to 300 gallons.
===================================

Shark Tagging Program

Sometimes one can lead a blessed life. I was just recently contacted by my former college advisor as to a shark tagging project that is to be conducted by the University of Miami. He wanted to know if I might be interested in volunteering my services for a few weeks to help with tagging open water sharks. I don't know, let me think, spend two to three weeks on board ships to catch, tag , and release sharks or go to work. Very difficult decision to make. LOL.

Apparently the federal government wants to start collecting more data on the shark stocks that are out there and are also considering including small coastal sharks in that study. What this means for me is that they will pay for my transportation, lodging, and etc. for me to be involved in this project. Looks like I may be away for awhile come this summer.
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You can take a look at some of his stuff:
http://groups.msn.com/Thesharkpool

Has a 18000 Gallon Shark Pool and soon before long a 35000 Gallon Lagoon

Now i took the time to show you this because you seem to be quite serious in having sharks so im telling you that mattiej is one the main people you should ask of the questions your asking here and you can even take it a step further if you like
Buddy ><{{{{">

[Lrgclasper]

Dragon, how does reef central feel about you promoting grim reefers? I also take offense that you are suggesting people here don't know anything about sharks.. And the shark tagging... sounds like am Grueber who is always begging for volunteers, nothing really special, but fun anyhow.

As a paid shark biologist I have to say that if this guy is collecting large sharks for aquarium use, I certainly hope he is permitted to do so. I am not impressed. I think shy guy would be best served by getting some books on sharks and rays.

Lrgclasper, in all honesty why you have a problem with im trying to direct Derek to someone with much hands on and yes, i too as well as many here can answer things but also i would believe that Derek would feel a whole lot better that he/she is with one who has more then just research, but hands on and i can tell you that i wasn`t thinking that it would appear as im promoting GR but nevertheless i seen other who in there post and right here in RC done that much and not once one person comes as you had here.
In all of what many know, sharks needs a huge pond for even myself i have background in holding sharks that end only cause of a back injury. But with all you may see here at RC with people with ideas in holding sharks in only a few hundred or less gals tanks and they fail cause of their cline and tell not have any more details then the type of species or what ever.
Myself i can agree that most hobbyist who has the thought to house sharks that they should remain in the oceans instead for even at that site you think my only idea was in promoting it, one there had a carpetshark in 100 gal tank once. And as for your remarks on how does RC feel, you aren`t part of the staff, so i really shouldn`t really have to explain nothing here and to top that off, I at other sites tell people that here at RC there be a great deal of people who can help them, even in Instant Messages and email alike For back a number of years ago for some 20 years i done a 2500 gal shark tank and it gave me much hand on knowledge that you cannot get from books I finished giving suggestions on those who want to keep sharks because the majority will never have a suitable tank/pond for maintaining them, not long term anyway and im sorry to say it, but Derek will be only able to keep catsharks and no leopard sharks if the thought comes to mind. And Derek, many sharks prey on rays.
Buddy ><{{{{">
PS. Quite some time ago i at that GR site said that having a shark forum only convinces many to have a shark that the shark and ray forum should be discontinued

[shy07guy]

Dragon, I checked out the site yesterday afternoon and sent mattiej a PM about my questons he has not responded yet so I am still waiting. I asked more questions because I feel the more info I can get the better. The shark pond idea is deffinatly not for sure especailly if it means endangering the sharks in anyway so it may just remain a koi pond at this point. I more or less wanted to get a feeling of what we might be getting ourselves into before we even started. I am waiting to see what mattiej says and anyone else that has helpful info. I figure the more people I ask the clearer the information becomes.
Thanks
Derek

[AW2EOD]

Originally posted by Lrgclasper
Dragon, how does reef central feel about you promoting grim reefers? I also take offense that you are suggesting people here don't know anything about sharks..

Does Reef Central consider themselves the only fish forum on the web? Does Reef Central think they're too good and do they not allow their members to use other forums? Did we sign a waiver, when we registered here, saying that we wouldnt use any other fish forum and that we wouldnt tell people about other fish forums we're members of?

All DME was doing was trying to point this guy in the right directiong. He never said that people here, on RC, dont know much about sharks. He was simply passing along some good, quality information...or wait...does RC not allow that either?

GrimReefers is a VERY good site, dealing primarily with saltwater predator fish. It doesnt have all of the cry baby bullsh!t that I see here, on RC...like your post, quoted above.

I, personally, recommend RC to people quite a bit. If fact...I just posted on GrimReefers, directing them to a thread I found here, on RC, about DIY Metal Halides. This is a two lane street, Lrgclasper...step down off of your "I want to be a mod" pedestal and relalize that we're all just trying to help everyone...who cares what forums we're members of.

[Trigger Fan]

Originally posted by AW2EOD
Does Reef Central consider themselves the only fish forum on the web? Does Reef Central think they're too good and do they not allow their members to use other forums? Did we sign a waiver, when we registered here, saying that we wouldnt use any other fish forum and that we wouldnt tell people about other fish forums we're members of?

All DME was doing was trying to point this guy in the right directiong. He never said that people here, on RC, dont know much about sharks. He was simply passing along some good, quality information...or wait...does RC not allow that either?

GrimReefers is a VERY good site, dealing primarily with saltwater predator fish. It doesnt have all of the cry baby bullsh!t that I see here, on RC...like your post, quoted above.

I, personally, recommend RC to people quite a bit. If fact...I just posted on GrimReefers, directing them to a thread I found here, on RC, about DIY Metal Halides. This is a two lane street, Lrgclasper...step down off of your "I want to be a mod" pedestal and relalize that we're all just trying to help everyone...who cares what forums we're members of.

Very well put.

[Lrgclasper]

Wow... what a response. I guess I misinterpreted your intention Dragonmoray and I apologize for that and I was off base. I think people should get as much information as possible. I get tired of all the BS information that gets distributed on all forums. Not everyone gives bad info and the knowledge by some is impressive. I am on this forum because of people like yourself who have been keeping fish for a very long time. I should have been more careful and took extra time to read through all the info you put down. To be honest, it was poker night and white russians were flowing liberally and cigars were lit! So, the head was a bit cloudy and looking for a rant due to all the money I lost.

First I will say is Derek, I was glad to put you in the right direction and I not know how many else where is giving you suggestions/opinions on sharks and all but know this. Many people who even give you such advise not had any experiences with sharks on their own for it is like I said, from simple research or what others told them or even what they readied in forums for it is easy to copy off what one says but nothing can top personal experiences.
For it was like about two years ago at some other forum site, This one person, he comes in announcing his expertise with moray eels and all it was based on is that he read everything he can find and said he will answer any and all questions. But real soon, one did have a question and I waited and waited for this new Eel prince, but he not answered the question for the question or better yet, the answer to the small problem, wasn't in anything he read. So what im getting at is, if any one person can help you in all your question, mattiej is it for take it from me, im not a person who tell you wrong, least not knowingly.
AW, Thank you, but then again please not sound off angry about things right off for it was only words he said and nothing more and im sure his apologies has nothing to do with your response, but thanks again. And Lrgclasper, let me know when is the next poker game and I will drink Vodka and no smokes, I had to quit.
Buddy ><{{{{">