Unknown Problems!!

[jsbzmcdaniel]

Hello fellow reefers,

I am in the need for assistance. Over the past two weeks I started to see bleaching and slow tissue loss on most my SPS. I can not for the life of me find out what is going on. Here is my specs.

Hardware:
120G 4X4X2 (Bare Bottom)
2 250W Hamilton 14K SE
2 48" VHO
IceCap ballasts
DIY Calcium Reactor
ASM G3 Skimmer
Oceans Motions HD 4-Way run by a Sequence Dart Pump
Little Fishes 150 Phosban reactor with Phosban / Carbon Media.
20G Sump
Little Giant 2-MDXQC Return Pump

Livestock:
Swallowtail Angel
Purple Fire Fish
Coral Beauty
4 - Peppermint Shrimp
200lbs Assorted Live Rock

Coral:
Various SPS (Monti Cap, Monti Digi, Acropora, etc...)

Water Parameters:
Salinity - 1.024
Cal - 450
Alk - 13dkh - High
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
PO4 - Undetected - Purchased Salifert PO4 test today and checked.
PH - 8.0
Temp - 79-82
Top off - RODI

I do not know what else to do. I have a few SPS frags and colonies that are not completely gone so I fragged them last night in hope for recovery. Right now they show minimal polyp extension.

Can someone lead me in the right direction?

Thanks

[rick rottet]

have any metal, brass, copper parts touching the water? Had a friend in our local club with a brass seal in one of his pumps experience similar unexplained losses.
Add anything new to tank or maintenance routine lately?

[jsbzmcdaniel]

No metal parts that I am aware of. The only change was I did a 20% water change and my salinity was too high which caused a salinity spike to 1.29. I have since reduced it to 1.24 with small water changes over the past two weeks.

[jsbzmcdaniel]

ttt

[Hobster]

Based only on what you wrote, that the bleaching occured at the same time as your change in salinity it seems to be a "cause and effect" I do not know what the "safe" time frame would be to drop
salinity from 1.029 to 1.024. Maybe try to bump it back up to around 1.026 (slowly) Just a thought.

[jsbzmcdaniel]

If the salinity is stable now shouldnt I see a decrease in bleaching or stop all together?

[tonylamas]

Everything I've read tells me that you shouldn't change salinity by more than .001 / week. If the corals suffered from osmotic shock, it may take quite a while for them to recover. It won't be over night.

[reiple]

hello tonylamas!

jsbzmcdaniel - tonyllamas is right! these animals came from reefs where conditions are very stable and any variation can cause bleaching. hopefully they adjust but if they do not then i go for the other suggestion : high toxicity in the water. Even a small screw or a penny (kids dropping things inside a tank or sump) or rusted drip from a hanging fixture can raise toxicity levels.

[jsbzmcdaniel]

Ok,

With that being said what could I possibly do if I happen to find a penny in my sump? I just refilled my Phosban reactor with new media and decided to try a new approach. I am running both phosban and carbon in my reactor.

Now that I think about it I was scrapeing the algee (sp?) off the bottom of the tank about the same time I started having this problem. I looked at the blade and noticed there were small traces of rust. hmmm...........

I wonder if that is causing a problem? I am in the process of mixing a 70g water change for this weekend. Do you think this will help?

[Surf]

are you measuring salinity with a hydrometer or with a calibrated refractometer? I had a hydrometer go bad on me, through my system all over the place.

Good luck,

[jsbzmcdaniel]

I am using a swing arm hydrometer. I know its not the best and need to get a refractometer but I have two swing arms and both read the same.

[tonylamas]

Originally posted by jsbzmcdaniel
Ok,

With that being said what could I possibly do if I happen to find a penny in my sump? I just refilled my Phosban reactor with new media and decided to try a new approach. I am running both phosban and carbon in my reactor.

Now that I think about it I was scrapeing the algee (sp?) off the bottom of the tank about the same time I started having this problem. I looked at the blade and noticed there were small traces of rust. hmmm...........

Not sure rust (iron oxide) will have too much of an impact with short contact. It may, but probably not.

You can run some polyfloss filter to try to adsorb some of the metals in the tank. It's supposed to be good for things like copper too. Randy has an article about export of metals. I'm sure he'll be along soon with the link if someone else doesn't.

This is assuming it is a metal issue. Carbon will take some of it out, polyfloss will take some more out.

If it isn't metal, but osmotic shock....you'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully, you're through the worst of it now.

[rahre1]

rinse the swing arm hydrometers in white vinegar - 5% acid - to be sure that it is free of calc carbonate.... then measure again.

I doubt that a bit of rust on the blade would bleach all your SPS. Rust is a bit of iron, not copper.

[tonylamas]

Originally posted by jsbzmcdaniel
I am using a swing arm hydrometer. I know its not the best and need to get a refractometer but I have two swing arms and both read the same.

Have you calibrated it? Randy has an article on how to mix up a standard salt solution to SG 1.026. You can measure that in your swing-arm to see how close it is. You can put a mark on the plastic to show where 1.026 really is. If that is your target, just keep shooting for that mark. Probably should rinse with fresh water after every use to remove salt build-up and check the calibration periodically.

[Hobster]

Originally posted by jsbzmcdaniel
Ok,

With that being said what could I possibly do if I happen to find a penny in my sump? I just refilled my Phosban reactor with new media and decided to try a new approach. I am running both phosban and carbon in my reactor.

Now that I think about it I was scrapeing the algee (sp?) off the bottom of the tank about the same time I started having this problem. I looked at the blade and noticed there were small traces of rust. hmmm...........

I wonder if that is causing a problem? I am in the process of mixing a 70g water change for this weekend. Do you think this will help?

I wouldn't jump to "what ifs" . Maybe see what Randys input is. The "known" event is a large spike in your salinity and then dropping it down. IMO this would have a major impact on you corals. Even if your swing arm is off a little if the salinity is constant it is not to bad. A large quick change would upset them.

[rick rottet]

just a thought, but you didnt happen to be spraying the yard with roundup anytime before reaching in the tank? -not trying to pick on roundup but it was the first thing that came to mind- or have contact with any other chemicals in your occupation/ other hobbies/ etc. that could be suspected?
I would also agree that dropping/ raising salinity by .005 in the short amount of time it takes to do a water change would be stressful to reef animals.
I would also agree that I dont think a rusty razor blade used to scrape algae would be the cause, you should see my scraper and lots of people put iron into their tanks intentionally for plant growth.
Hope you figure it out.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't worry about rust spots on the razor blade.

Did you add any corals recently?

I'm by no means an expert on salinity effects on corals, but if I were in your situation, I would not raise it back up just to hope things will be better because of it.

IMO, whether the sudden salinity change was stressful or not, it is over. The coral should be adjusted to the new salinity by now in the sense that raising it won't likely help.

[jsbzmcdaniel]

Randy,

Thanks for the reply. I would have thought that the coral that bleached would have slowed down or stopped. I also thought that the coral that were not bleched would not start. Neither one have become true. Again I started adding carbon to my phosban reactor 70% phosban 30% carbon in hopes that it would help. I can not comment on the effects yet because it was just added last night. I am in the process of mixing a batch of 60g water change and should be ready tomorrow. My hopes are that if there is something toxic in the water a 50% water change would help. As far as adding any new coral I have not. It kind of happened all of a sudden, very fast, and then slowed down. Very frustrating if you know what I mean.

Any other thoughts?

[Heinz]

your PO4 is 0.00 why not take your reactor offline,

what i would do is keep the salinity where it is at, keep the tank as stable as possible and take the phosban reactor offline,

actually i would use the reactor for activ carbon, and just take the phosbane out,

[Jörg Kokott]

Heinz's right, these are symptoms for phosphorus limitations in corals. Would agree to take off the phosban adsorber from the system.

Phosphorus limited corals show bleaching from the colony's basis growing up to the tips. Most corals also show an increased sensitivity for light stress in the tip regions.