Importing corals from another country

mane3215 · #1 07/15/2004, 11:05 PM

Hows it going Anthony, it was recommended I ask you for advice on this subject. I am in the process of attempting to import corals from Japan. My guy is setting everything up on his side, and now I need to do the same here. The corals will be picked up in NYC at the airport.

I was wondering what I have to do to make this all "proper" or legal? I think I need some type of permit from Fish and Wildlife, but the only thing there I see even closely resembling what I may need is the Introduction from the Sea permit. This doesn't make sense to me though.

Do you have any idea how I got about doing this the right way?

Thanks.

Anthony Calfo · #2 07/15/2004, 11:15 PM

Hmmm... I have some concerns here. By "corals" do you mean soft/octocorals... or actually scleractinia? I was under the impression that stony corals were protected in Japanese waters. The subject even came up just a couple months ago when I was in Germany talking to one of Japans biggest (fish) import/exporters.

mane3215 · #3 07/15/2004, 11:18 PM

At this moment, only soft coral, as well as some fish and invertebrate. We are trying to find a legal way to eventually ship hard coral as well.

Anthony Calfo · #4 07/15/2004, 11:21 PM

doh... clicked send too soon

As to permits, it really is a pain to go at this alone/new. I would strongly recommend that you find an experienced broker/importer and hook them up with this good contact (if its legal) in exchange for using their CITES permits and doing the paperwork for you.

I regret that I dont have a more optimistic recommendation... but I dread to see non-business folk attemting to tranship animals - more often than not it costs too many creatures their lives

I realize your intentions are good, my friend, but I'd be dishonest to you and this hobby/industry I loved if I encouraged inexperienced folk to tackle such endeavors.

Short of you working at a wholesalers/importers to gain the necessary experience and contacts (I realize that this is not likely/accessible for you/most folks), I bid you to do the responsible thing and enlist the experience of a professional (broker) to do right by the animals and protect your investment.

kindly,

Anthony

mane3215 · #5 07/15/2004, 11:31 PM

I have been told that I should try to get under someone else's permits and all that, however I would really like to shy away from that.

As far as your concerns, I am totally loss. What would an experienced broker do that I wont? I will at that time have sufficient space, and a very good healthy top end setup to house the animals. At no time would they ever be mistreated as many ppl do. I don't know exactly what you meant, maybe I am taking it the wrong way?

I actually am doing this with a fellow who has 15 years experience with wholesalers, not directly working for them, but managing his own store and dealing directly with them. He knows quite a bit, and we have considered bringing the wholesaler in, however he wants too much to do so at this time.

Also, where are you gathering my experience?

Anthony Calfo · #6 07/15/2004, 11:45 PM

In the limited medium of text messages, we have to infer some things for the sake of brevity or lack of information. When we are mistaken, we should (ahem!) politely concede to this out of fact, if not out of common courtesy.

If you want to be defensive, Chris... I respectfully ask that you go ask for (free) advice elsewhere.

The nature of your question (lack of understanding of which permits are needed, legality of country of origins export status, etc.) gave me fair reason IMO to believe that you and anyone you knew/worked with clearly had no experience with importing.

I have seen dozens of inexperienced folks try to cut out experienced brokers and other "middle men" in the nearly 15 years I've been in the business.

My advice to you to get a broker was intended to save animals lives if not your money. Whoever else is was that gave you the same advice I obviously agree with. If you're smart, you'll consider that experienced people giving you this advice for free with nothing to gain/profit from may actually comprise the intelligent/informed consensus on a decision you should make/agree with.

If you do not have a clue why an experienced broker would be better, and what they can do that you cannot... then I just do not know where to begin to try to help you here, mate. You are new and out of your (present) league of experience... and frankly, if you are so unreasonable as to get defensive with me in a heartbeat without considering that you gave me very little info to go on... then I have no interest in helping you.

No hard feelings... I still wish you the best of luck.

Anthony

mane3215 · #7 07/16/2004, 12:31 AM

I do am sorry you feel that way, and I am indeed a bit irritated with your responses (tone). Not that I at all disagree with what you are saying, but perhaps how you portrayed yourself.

You seemed to have come across as thinking I am jumping in this, made a call to Japan, and have a box arriving tomorrow. You of all people I thought would understand. I do indeed have TOTAL lack of experience in this field, hence the MANY hours of research. I was here to ask for a hand, maybe an idea of how this whole thing works. Not to be told I will kill the stuff I bring in. I have more then enough experience to keep the animals I am shipping alive, or I would not do so. If there are other matters I should look at I wanted to know (again the reason for the post here).

As stated above, a broker is an option, I have yet to check into this, and you are the first person to tell me about one. This is what my diligent effort is all about.

There is a wholesaler involved, I really do not want to go that route. I don't know how to contact a broker.

I am sorry to have wasted both your and my time, as I can see you cant get past the issues that you fill in for "brevity" sake that to me are not the issue here, and not in any way pertinent to what I was asking. I will ask else where for a hand, perhaps someone whom can get past their own emotions and help someone accomplish what no one in the US has.

mane3215 · #8 07/16/2004, 12:33 AM

BTW, I am not trying to cut out brokeers and middle men, they want nothing to do with this, which is why I assume we get nothing from Japan.

Anthony Calfo · #9 07/16/2004, 12:44 AM

Uhhh.... I am confused here Chris.

Looking at the posts above... in response to me suggesting you get a broker, you replied:

"I have been told that I should try to get under someone else's permits and all that, however I would really like to shy away from that."

In response to my reply to the above you then said:

"As stated above, a broker is an option... and you are the first person to tell me about one."

???

sigh... if you choose not to "shy away from that" broker option, you can find entire indices of import/exporters, brokers, manufacturers, etc in our industry trade journals. If you are getting in to the business... you'll want to subscribe to some/all of the trade mags (Pet Business, Pet Supplies Marketing and Pet Age) and membership with the lobbyist for our trade - PIJAC. The latter group will help you write your business plan.

Anthony

mane3215 · #10 07/16/2004, 12:48 AM

Your right, I was confused, someone suggested a wholesaler. I do not know if you are referring to them as a broker or not. If so then yes, it has been recommended to me.

The reason I want to shy away from that option is because they want to cherry pic what I will be brining in. If you knew the leg work I have put in just getting this far, you would understand I don't want someone cherry picking the stuff I worked so hard to get. I would rather get the licenses/permits to handle it myself.

I do not fully intend on going into the business, however its always an option. I have had a few companies already contact me an offer to help/buy what I order from Japan since they get such different stuff.

Thanks for your tips.

mane3215 · #11 07/20/2004, 09:26 AM

Hey Anthony, I am having a hard time finding a broker in MD/NYC that I can use to import these corals. I have my wholesaler in Japan set up to make it happen. Can you maybe put me in touch with someone? I live in MD, but the coral will be shipped to NYC. So I am not sure where the broker should be from?

Anthony Calfo · #12 07/20/2004, 11:28 AM

Some wholesalers have licenses/skills to do this and other folks simply act as the broker/importer. The do not have to live in the legal port of entry, but usually do for convenience as the needs arise to sign for the fielded shipments (sometimes repack, re-oxygenate, etc).

The easiest thing to do usually is find a big wholesaler or transshipper to process it for you (transshippers are usually "hungry" and flexible and will work easiest with you). To find these folks, again, simply get an online or print subscription to any one of the trade journals. They have huge indices of such folks in the business that might help you listed by state, category, etc.

Do expect that some of these folks will turn you down if they think/suspect/realize that you are not in the biz for long-term, or feel that you are just an aquarist just trying to score a sweet shipment. As you know/suspect... it will be better perhaps to go on your retailer friend's credentials that you mentioned above. These brokers are not likely to help you if they think this is a one time shot.

best of luck,

Anthony