Hit by Odontodactylus???

[Gonodactylus]

The reason I'm posting this is to ask if any of you have been stabbed by an Odontodactylus scyllarus and if so, how did the wound heal?

Ten years ago a physician in South Africa was stabbed by an O. sycllarus while diving. The wound penetrated the joint in his finger which became infected. The cartillage in the joint was completely destroyed and the digit had to be amputated. He wrote me asking if there was any known toxin or venom associated with stomatopods. The answer, to my knowledge, is probably no. The infection did not respond to antibiotics (they tried several) and most likely was due to chitinolytic bacteria (their diagnosis), although attemps to isolate bacteria from the wound failed.

Yesterday while helping a colleague apply small marker dots to the raptorial appendage of a large O.s., I became careless and was stabbed in the joint of my finger. There was lots of blood and some pain, but that was fairly easily controlled. However, the finger did go numb for several hours and today is totally stiff with some swelling. There is some redness and quite a bit of pain, but I'm not ready to cut it off just yet.

Obviously the situation with the doctor in South Africa came to mind and I began wondering if any of the aquarists who keep O.s. have been wounded and if so, what was the outcome. I've been stabbed by stomatopods hundreds of times and I have never had any serious infections. However, this one feels a bit different and I'm beginning to wonder why. If O. s. wounds might be subject to infection, I would like to document it.

No hearts and flowers, please! Just let me know if your skin has been punctured by and O.s. and if so, what happened.

Thanks.

Roy

p.s. Unfortunately the offending stomatopod lost its raptorial appendage in the process.

[cjm033]

ummm im not positive but your best bet would probly be to se a doctor to be sure **captian obvious strikes again** but other then that im not sure that theres many people here that really keep spearers and probly a little less keep that breed and a little less get stabbed im assuming that anytime you get cut by anything in a marine aquarium its dangerous do to the obvios likelyness of a infection good luck , Chris (Captian Obvious)

[silent_assassin_e99]

sorry cant help ya, haven't felt the need to stick my hand in the tank with my O. s. yet.....just curious though, how did it stab you? lookin at the clubbers on mine, they look pretty blunt.

[teckt]

O's have both smashers and small spears that they can use as well. Just like the spearers do just shorter. You don't get to see them often but they use them when they want to. Next time you O molts check for an intact smasher. You can observe it better then.
Sounds to me like you got the spear. Though, i don't know if they posess and toxin. See a doctor is my advice.

[silent_assassin_e99]

cool thanks for the info, i will be sure to check that out when he molts

[Treevore]

I have never read about toxins, and I read virtually the entire Lurker's Guide To Stomatopods Site (for a school report--don't ask ). However, it is a possibility (this is just a guess) that there is some infection, either from some sort of mushroom/zoanthid/anything toxin in the water (maybe you fragged some of these?) or from bacteria in the water. Did you disinfect immediately?

[grampus]

please don't insult the good doctor's inteligence, he is an integral part to that website's existance.

Roy, could the infection be related to the shell rot that so commmonly occors on peacock's? every time i've recieved an O. scyllarus, it's come in with a nasty and untreatable sore on it's back, however after a molt the sore dissapears with the skin (leaveing a small marr underneath) I know that peacocks are the most likely to have this condition and perhaps that is why their stabs hurt the most. i have not however been stabbed by any stomatopod as of yet....

off the topic, a while back you were looking for hemisquilla ensignara, Ranch Market 99, a huge Asian market chain, seasonally gets them by the tank load, i know Frisco has a huge asian population, perhaps that would be a good place to look, they sell them for 10 bucks a pound

[Gonodactylus]

Grampus,

Thanks. Shell disease is particularly common in O. s. and for some reason is more common in males than in females. The primary agent hasn't been identified, but the secondary infections once the cuticle starts to be infected contains the worst mixture of bacteria, fungus and protozoa you can imagine. I have seen shell disease in a few other species - most commonly in Gonodactylus chiragra. As you have found out, the best treatment seems to be good water quality and nutrition.

I have pretty much convinced myself that shell disease is contagious and it would not surprise me at all if whatever bacteria caused the infection wasn't involved in at least the secondary infections.


We are in dire need of several Hemisquilla and I just don't have the time to get down south and collect them. Ranch 99 in the Bay Area does seem to bring up Hemisquilla. I think they are sold opportunistically when a trawler catches a bunch. THis time of year they are breeding and it is not uncommon for trawls to bring in dozens on one trip. If you see any live ones in shops or markets, PLEASE contact me ASAP.

ROy

[silent_assassin_e99]

if it was me you were talkin bout gramps, i wasn't tryin to insult dr roy's intelligence, and i apologize dr caldwell if it looked that way. i was really just curious how an O stabbed. didn't know they had spikes too

[RogueCorps]

Originally posted by grampus
please don't insult the good doctor's inteligence, he is an integral part to that website's existance.

No need to flame at Trev... The good doctor doesn't have his real name with his RC handle...

I haven't had experience being struck, but just curious how your finger is doing now Dr. Roy? It would be a terrible thing if you take any permanent damage from an animal that you've taught us all so much about.

Hope things go well...

-Rogue

[Gonodactylus]

Much better, thank you. There is no more pain and the swelling is down. Clearly there was no nasty infection. However, I have a new respect for how much a simple stab in the joint can cause.

Roy

[grampus]

didn't mean to flame at anybody, i'll be more precise with my words next time around, sorry treev in advance.

Dr. Roy, i'm glad to hear all is well, but i think the shrimp is the one who needs the flowers and all, did it get imbedded in your joint, or did you exact wrathfull vengence? the lovely lady sitting next to me sends electronic kisses to the little guy.

[grampus]

sorry to double reply, but i just noticed rogue's signature, if we all spent more time hugging our shrimp, then perhaps they wouldn't strike at us at all. what exactly were you doing to the shrimp in queation when he struck you?

-Tim

[RogueCorps]

Thanks for clearing that up Grampus. I know Trev from the RAG forum and he's a very helpful guy. I don't think he's aware of Dr. Roy frequenting here. I'm always a little unsure of how to interpret text from time to time.

I was wondering the same thing regarding how it got you Doc. Also I wasn't aware until now that smashers still were able to use their small folded spear.

Glad to hear that you're healing up Dr. Roy.

-Rogue