yippee!!!!!!!!! no green tank anymore

[DingyDamsel]

Finally !!!!!!!! my tank is very clear again. A few days ago I went to the Gulfarium, and bought some live rock from Chris.By the way, thanks Chris for all your help, and Emmanuel too.I bought about 12 lbs, maybe a little more.Got a nice frag too, and got to see the cool tanks there. Anyway, I also did a 75% water change. It kind of scared me to do that much, but I exausted my affordable options. I took out all my other rocks but one, and bathed them in my sump tank that isn't set up yet, but had my saltwater in it.I figured this might give them a little bit of a rinse off, and keep criters alive that were hitch hiking till I got them back into the main tank. Some corals were on the rocks , and a few were left in my affected tank with all my fish.When I added the new water, I could see much better, but it was still foggy, and just a tad green.Not to much though.The next day, it seemed better, but still not totaly clear. It use to look Ok when I would do the water changes, but then within hours, it would get green again.This time it didn't. Infact, this morning it was even more clear then the day before.I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I think it has worked this time. Now I have to get that overflow and pump going so I can keep it this way easier. Anybody have an overflow,and a powerhead they want to sell? I need enough for at least a 80 galllons system. Happy New year to all...Maria

[DrHank]

Glad that the green is gone. Now you know first hand why having enough live rock is so important. I have several overflows and probably a powerhead or two hanging around. I'll bring them to the meeting at Heather's and we can talk about it then. What size tank are you setting up? Do you already have a sump for it?

[JaredWaites]

Maria,

I'm glad to hear your tank is going well now!

Your going to need more than a powerhead btw for your tank I personally would use like a mag 5 on that tank if you can. I have a few available still from that meeting at Lances. I'll sell them for like 40 bucks probably

[jadeguppy]

The head to from the bottom of the 20g sump to the top of the tank is about 4', maybe a little more. I think a mag 7 or mag 9.5 was what was suggested for my tank, which has very similar characteristics. Does anyone have some spare 9.5's? I could use one too.

[SWINGRRRR]

I really wouldn't suggest the Mag9.5 for the return on a tank that size. I used one for a couple of days and its just to many micro bubbles. Plus the flow through the sump was ridiculous. You want somewhat slow flow through your sump. I have the QO3K on my return, and even its throttled back a bit. The Mag9.5 has been converted to a CL, but I may loose it soon. It will be replaced by MJ1200's.


But then again, what do I know?

[DrHank]

How big is the display tank? I would recommend that you take that volume and multiply it by 5 to 7 to determine the Gph you need. Then use the table on RC to determine what the flow rate at 4-5 feet is.

A Mag 5 would make a great return pump on say a 29 gallon tank but I think it would be a bit on the light side for anything much larger.

If you were thinking of using a powerhead for a return pump, think again. It won't work.

[DrHank]

This is why I don't like a Mag 5 for a return an anything but a small tank;

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2...=1&Entrances=1

That isn't to say you can't use it (you can) but with that slow a flow, an J Tube return is prone to air locking. I do have a CLR overfolw that would work but you would need to add an aqualifter or similar jump to keep the air out of the overflow.

[jadeguppy]

At 4' head:
mag 5: 300gph
mag7: 475gph
mag 9.5: 800 gph

At 5' head:
mag 5: 250 gph
mag 7: 425 gph
mag 9.5: 750 gph

[jadeguppy]

The numbers I posted are from Drs. Fosters site.

[Acro-Phobia]

I'm using a Barracuda (4600 gph) for my return pump and it works berry berry nice.

I would go with as big a pump as you are happy with and put a ball valve on it to reude the flow "if required".

Haha! Exactly how many ways are there to skin a cat?

[jadeguppy]

Well, when I skinned one there were a few options on how to start. Doing a good job is another story...

(Not a sicko, Anatomy & Physiology)

Alan, I think that may be a bit too much for our needs.

[Acro-Phobia]

It's too much for my needs, but what the hell, bigger is better....right?

I was actually agreeing with the Mag 9.5. Put a ball vavle on it and you can adjust the flow down if need be.

[DingyDamsel]

Hi All,Thanks for the well wishes, and all the suggestions.You all sure know more than I do.That is for sure.If you can, bring the things you have available to Heathers for the meeting, I will hopefully be able to buy something that will work from someone.
Glad I didn't order all this stuff yet.I was trying to save some money, so I didn't order yet.Plus, I wasn't sure if to much power would be safe.I believe at first I was going to get the mag 9.5 because I will have a total of around 75 -77gallons with both tanks.I think the one I have for the sump is 29 Gal. and my main tank is a 48Gal.But, my sump tank has baffles.Don't know if that counts. I just thought more was better ,plus if I ever upgraded, I wouldn't have to buy more equipment.I want to do what's best though. Thanks again.See you at the meeting.You'll be able to pop over to my house next to Heather and look at my tank if you want to see what you think I need.

[SWINGRRRR]

You are going to have to throttle back the 9.5 alot. Thats going to increase the running wattage on the pump. The 9.5s runs 93 w/hr, regular.
The QO3K runs 40 w/hr with only a loss of 200 gph. Seems you'd have to throttle back the QO3K less, and use less energy.

[DrHank]

A mag 9.5 did a great job as a return pump on my 110 gallon tank with 5" of head. So what does that tell you? You don't need a Mag 9.5 on a 48 gallon tank. You're talking serious overkill.

Getting back to reality if you have a 48 gallon tank and a 20 gallon sump that is about 1/2 full of water you are looking at about 58 gallons of water for the system. To turn it over 6-7 times per hour (I wouldn't do any more than that) you need a pump capable of around 350-400 gallons per hour at about 4' of head (counting maybe four 90 degree bends, a ball valve and a union.

To drain (overflow) that amount of water will require an overflow that is about 6 liniar inches and has a drain diameter of .88 inch. I 1" single tube overflow is what you're looking for. That will handle up to about 575 gph without problems.

Looking at pumps I'd say that you're looking at about a Mag 7 or possibly a Quiet One 3000. I'd stay away from Via Aqua and Rio. They are less expensive but their gph is way off.

[JaredWaites]

An octopus 3000 might also work well in your situation.

A turnover rate at 6-7 times is not needed to keep coral...that is overkill.

Anything over 4 times an hour turnover isn't needed.

Look at the tanks 20 years ago that had absolutely NO turnover rate and they just had powerheads in the tank circulating it. Think about that.

[jadeguppy]

Yes, but I would like to use my return as part of the internal circulation and eliminate a powerhead. I may even put an eductor on the return. I think I am getting about 300 right now, so I'm going to stick with what I have for a while. I just switched to this pump tonight and I like the additional flow.

[DingyDamsel]

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions. You all are a big help.I will decide after I talk to everyone at the meeting.

[DrHank]

I would agree as long as 2 factors are concerned. First, you'd need to show me a reliable overflow that functions at a rate of 240 gph without a secondary pump sucking air out of the overflow (good luck with that one). Second, that you were going to either have good circulating pumps in the display or a closed loop system to provide flow.

Also I was in the hobby doing salt water 20 years ago and personally, I wouldn't want to backtrack.

Jared I'm going to mention this only once and only because you seem to do it quite a bit.

You may want to consider if it's worth annoying folks by contradicting what they say. Personally, I'm really not all that impressed by someone who seems to know it all. Unfortunately, that is the way you are coming across to me.

I know that you've got some Mag 5s left that would turn her tank over 4 times an hour. I know that she doesn't have to have to have a 6-7 time overflow. I also know that if she tries to use a Mag 5 on her tank with a 4' head and a J-tube overflow with a 1" tube she'll draw in air bubbles that will air lock her J tube within a few days and she won't be able to maintain siphon. I doubt that it would work with a 3/4" drain either. Why beacuse the J tube is roughly 1 1/8" inside diameter. She could use a CLR style overflow with a seperate powerhead, Aqua Lifter, or other pump to draw the air out of the overflow and keep it from air locking.

To me it makes more sense to use what will work the easiest and that would be a pump that produces flow at slightly less than the capacity of the overflow to clear it. It also isn't going to hurt a thing to have a 500 gph flow on her tank. The J tube will function as it should and she won't need to buy a secondary pump to keep the overflow working properly.

Sorry if my response seems a bit disgruntled but I think that we should all be a bit more sensitive to the feelings of others. I believe that if we take a few minutes to read our posts over before we submit them and ask our selves how we would feel if a post contradicted something we said, we might be more careful of how we state things. Just a thought.

[jadeguppy]

Ditto Doc.

[JaredWaites]

Wow a little grumpy I see. Well I won't turn this into an argument like the other thread with you and Chris.

First of all this has nothing to do with me having Mag Drives to get rid of!

Second,

I'm just to the point, blunt to many people... Some may call it contradiction, but some may enjoy constructive criticism. Sorry if you don't like it...but this isn't against the TOS here at RC. Deal with it.

A Mag 5 will work with a CPR CS50 overflow just fine...even with 4 feet of head, and it does have a 3/4" overflow btw. Yeah you will probably need an aqua lifter...but thats always a good thing to have in the event of something irregular happening...especially in our area with power outages and hurricanes...and now tornadoes and micro-bursts.

I love the way you worded that I know it all...but unfortunately your wrong, I don't know it all...I just know enough to make you look like you don't know anything....to be blunt once again. Read my signature once again.

Next time, keep your remarks to yourself and personal. This isn't a place for war. This is supposed to be fun. I wasn't cutting you down, and it seems you have some issues to work out...as I must have done something wrong by saying that a 6-7 turnover an hour is overkill? A tank can be ran without a skimmer....GASP and without a sump and because you've been keeping tanks so long, I'm sure you know that. I know plenty of people that run a few powerheads and use tap water in their makeup water...do they have problems? No, but can they keep SPS? Maybe...but there not thriving. Its a matter of preference and a matter of what your trying to house.

Sorry to be a jerk...but hey...this forum is meant to help people, and the information I post...is just that....take it or leave it.

[Phildirt]

Maria, can you drill your tank?

[jadeguppy]

Jared, I believe the point was to ask you to watch how you communicate your opinions. Being constructive is welcome. It is when the bluntness crosses over to being disrepectful of others opinions and rude that becomes a problem. The impression of a know it all comes from your habit of congratulating yourself on what you. A little humility would be appreciated, especially when others have a different opinion.

[jadeguppy]

To drill the tank she will need to tear it down. I discussed this with her and she doesn't like the idea of tearing the tank down.

Personally, I have seen better coral growth with more flow. I like the 10x-20x tank volume flow in the display. With a fuge, I like enough flow to sway the cheato. I have had low flow and higher flow and the higher setting does better a.k.a. more growth and fewer problems. She has many of the same corals as me, so I think this will be the better way for her to go. Additionally, the larger pump will allow for a tank upgrade in the future.

Keep the ideas and reasons coming. Many of you are looking at the issue from different perspectives and that helps her and me make better informed decisions. Does anyone think a long tank vs. a high tank makes a difference on how much to run through the sump?

[DrHank]

Tell you what Jared, I agree with you that it's pointless to escalate this to an argument.

I'm glad that it has nothing to do with your Mag 5s.

The fact that you admit that you are blunt and to the point with people tells me that you just don't care about anyones feelings but your own.

The MAG 5 / CS50 combination working at 4' head, without suction on the air outlet will loose suction within a week. It does have a 3/4"overflow. I have one.

When you stop being blunt, constructively critisise in open forum and start taking other folks feelings into consideration I'll get off your case.

If you know you're being a jerk why not stop. I'm sorry that no one else wants to express their feelings.

I don't take any information from one source and thank you for your response. Frankly, I'll leave it.