Ich!
 

I didn't QT any of my fish and now I'm biting the bullet.

Two days ago I totally removed all the live rock from my 105 g and caught all my fish. (Many hours of lesson teaching work)

Next, I disassembled a 42 Hex. that was set up with FW. I cleaned it and set it back up with no substrate and a Magnum to filter it. I placed some of the gravel from my established "affected tank" and some filter material from a "hopefully unaffected" innverte tank inside the carbon filter(I removed the carbon). I realize that may not provide enough bacteria, so I plan on feeding my fish sparingly while I wait for my main tank to clear up(40 days?).

I plan on monitoring the water quality very closely to make sure that it doesn't become polluted. I will do water changes to alleviate any problems in deterioating water quality.

I am treating the 42 g. with copper (Sea Chem). The directions on the bottle state to treat each ten gallons with 1 ml of the solution. My LFS suggested that I could increase this quantity by 1.5 times instead of the recommended dosage for the first day. The recommended dosage is supposed to bring the levels up to .25 ppm the first day and then to repeat the same dosage the very next day which will bring the level to .5 ppm.

I also dipped my fish for 8 minutes in FW before transferring them to the QT tank.

Did I screw up by adding substrate to my filter from the affected tank? I assumed that the copper treatment would kill any that made the transition to the QT tank. Also, I left several hermits, 3 cleaner shrimp, and several snails in the affected tank. My understanding is that they aren't host to the protozoans. Is this a wrong or right assumption?

By the way, this seemed to start with the addition of a Regal Tang(Hippo Tang). It didn't have any obvious signs when I put it in the tank, but the next day it was covered with spots. Should I get rid of this host. It seems from my research that they are a potential problem fish when it comes to ick.

One last question, would it be beneficial to lower my salinity in addition to treating with copper? If so, should I do it slowly or quickly? (days versus hours??)

Re: Ich!
 

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by speckled trout [/i][/quote]
[B]Did I screw up by adding substrate to my filter from the affected tank? I assumed that the copper treatment would kill any that made the transition to the QT tank. [/b]

The copper won't kill the bacteria, however, it does inhibit the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate so you need to be careful.

You have a much bigger problem with gravel. I'm assuming this is crushed coral or similar. This will absorb copper from the water lowering the copper concentration making it more difficult to maintain the correct levels. What is worse is that the absorbed copper can be dumped back into water with a drop in pH. I would get rid of the gravel from the tank. Don't place anything that is made of calcium carbonate in the tank.

[b]Also, I left several hermits, 3 cleaner shrimp, and several snails in the affected tank. My understanding is that they aren't host to the protozoans. Is this a wrong or right assumption?[/b]

This is correct. Leave the tank without fish for 4 to 6 weeks and the remaining parasites will die.

[b]By the way, this seemed to start with the addition of a Regal Tang(Hippo Tang). It didn't have any obvious signs when I put it in the tank, but the next day it was covered with spots. Should I get rid of this host. It seems from my research that they are a potential problem fish when it comes to ick.[/b]

You can treat the tang to get rid of the "Ich" and it will be fine. All fish are potential hosts to "Ich". Some people find that regal/hippo/blue tangs become infected more often, but they are really no more susceptible than most fish.

[b]One last question, would it be beneficial to lower my salinity in addition to treating with copper? If so, should I do it slowly or quickly? (days versus hours??) [/B]

No. Don't lower the salinity. This will make it more difficult to maintain the correct levels of copper.

There are two effective methods for treating "Ich", copper or hyposalinity. Either are very effective and will break the life cycle of the "Ich", however they should not be used together. I much prefer hyposalinity as it is much safer and easier with no residual toxins.

See: [url=http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html]Marine "Ich"[/url] and [url=http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html]Hyposalinity[/url].

First off, remove the gravel on the bottom of the hospital tank if you are going to use copper.
Second, go back to your LFS and get a Good! copper test kit. Don't scrimp on the cost or you will only be frustrated later.
The reason for removing the gravel (I assume it's crushed coral?) it that calcium substrate absorb the copper like a spounge (as it dose bleach and why you should never bleach corals/rocks for use in a fish tank). The substrate may lower your copper to below treatment levels and not be effective against your bug. Use your test kit to monitor your copper levels. And monitor your other parameters (pH, NH4, etc.). Do water changes as needed. If you have the ability, do a 100% water change every two days and retreat. Yes, ramp up the cupramine on the 2nd day to 0.5 ppm. The FW dip will help for the first day.

Now I'm sure that ATJ will be popping in here soon. He would most likely suggest hyposalinity, which is a very good alternative to copper. But I doubt that even her would combine the two. And Hyposalinity should be done s l o w l y ! Do a search here on RC about hyposalinity, cross reference ATJ. He has some good sites about it as well as good advice.

No, you do not have to get rid of the Regal.

Best of Luck!

LOL And there he beat me to it! I had a phone call.

a specific gravity of 1.009 wont kill the fish? using a hydrometer to measure it I mean. the swing arm seems to be 4 points higher then the hydrometer reads.

A specific gravity of 1.009 will not kill the majority of bony fish - in fact, it may be safe for all bony fish, but I'm not going to make that generalisation.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ATJ [/i]
[B]A specific gravity of 1.009 will not kill the majority of bony fish - in fact, it may be safe for all bony fish, but I'm not going to make that generalisation. [/B][/QUOTE]

how about firefish? also why does my swing arm measure 4 points higher then my hydrometer? is the swing arm that innaccurate?

thanks again!

Yes, it is that innaccurate (or can be).

I have never treated a firefish with hyposalinity, but I have no reason to believe they can't tolerate it.

Swing arm hydrometers tend to be both inaccurate (i.e. not indicating the correct specific gravity) and inconsistent (i.e. not reading the same value each time). You should not use a swing arm hydrometer for hyposalinity measurements.

A refectometer is a very worthwhile investment. For less than US$100, you get an accurate device that can be used for your main tank as well as for hyposalinity in a treatment tank. The other great thing about refractometers is they need very little water for a reading - only one or two drops. This makes it very easy to test shipping water for accessing acclimation times.

thank you for your help.

Thank you for your responses.
 

It was only a handful of substrate and it was placed directly into my Magnum instead of the carbon. I also placed a small piece of filter material from an established aquarium in it, too. I will remove the substrate from the filter.

I added the substrate to increase the number of beneficial bacteria to the completely new system. My main concern was introducing a lot of new protozoans to the QT tank by adding the substrate to the filter. I assumed that the copper would kill the new protozoans.

The bottom of my aquarium is completely devoid of substrate and only contains some plastic decorations(artificial tree root and some pvc fittings; real realistic) for the fish to hide among. The fish seem calmer since I added these items, and I hope that this will reduce their stress.