Euro-reef or Asm?

[vidrine7322]

Which do you think would work better for my moderately stocked 40g breeder, I keep only sps and ricordia, very little fish. I've been looking at the new extruded acrylic Euro-Reef rs80 or an ASM g3 with the impeller mod and maybe gate valve mod. Which do you think will skim more efficently and produce more skimmate per day?

[ERICinFL]

My ER kicks butt. My buddy has an ASM and it seems to work very well too. How much have you got to spend? I'd say with a litely stocked tank, either or.

[bkbailes07]

i would have to go with euro reef, especially since they have upgraded their pumps.

[andyjd]

Not tried an ER but am happy with my ASM

[drock59]

ER

[snslarison]

ASM

[RichConley]

TO be fair, that ASM is a much larger skimmer than the ER we're talking about, and I dont think the ER would be able to keep up.


The problem is, the ERs are much nicer now than the ASMs, and the prices aren't that different. ASM hasnt changed their product, and has significantly increased their prices, whereas ER has mde their product much better, and decreased their prices. I dont think anyone should be buying an ASM right now.


That being said, all commercial skimmers are generally well below their potential, so if you're willign to do a tiny bit of work, I'd reccomend going with the cheapest one you can find with a good, big body. Its so easy to get pumps to pull significantly more air, that I dont think its worth spending the $200+ that ER wants for their pumps, or the $100 they want for their impellars.

Thats why I'd suggest a Reef Octopus NW150, and then put a meshwheel impellar on it. It'll be much cheaper than the other two options, and outskim both of them by a wide margin. Its also cast acrylic, which neither of the other options can claim.

[drock59]

RichConley, well said. A year ago maybe i would have said ASM but ER has done some good things.

Also, for those of us that dont want to mod our skimmers, wouldnt you say between the two, ER is the way to go? I know the older I get the less I like to do my own mods. I want to buy something that will work well out of the box.

[RichConley]

I wouldnt say any of them work well right out of the box, but then again, I'm a tweaker, and I know what you CAN get out of these things....

An ASM G3 will typically run you around $300. It is made of extruded PVC, leaks, and draws not all that much air. It has a 6.5" chamber, and is 25" tall.


A ER RS135 will also run you $300. It has a 6" body, and is 24" tall. It will pull literally twice the air the ASM will pull, and is significantly better made.

That being said, if you're gonna spend $300 on a skimmer, wait a month or two and buy an ATI bubble master. It'll smoke the two of them, and cost you around $300 IIRC.

[drock59]

ATI bubble master

more info please. :)

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8785126#post8785126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drock59
more info please. :)

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=976704

Here ya go.

[rockindacheeks]

I like them both. if you have the extra cash get the ER. they are a nice skimmer. if you are on a budget get an ASM. both skim very well.

[ridetheducati]

Compared to a Red Sea Berlin skimmer, the stock ASM skims well. Compared to an ER, the ASM skims like crap.

A stock ASM will give you a serious case of buyers remorse. I GUARANTEEEEE.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8785331#post8785331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rockindacheeks
I like them both. if you have the extra cash get the ER. they are a nice skimmer. if you are on a budget get an ASM. both skim very well.

THe ASM doesnt skim anything near well stock. Seriously, a Reef octopus will outskim an ASM by a large margin, and theyre half the price. The ASM literally pulls less than half the air the equivalent ER does. Theyre junk.

Nobody should be buying ASM right now. THeres a reason ASMskimmer stopped selling them,

[Maximo]

Hi Rich,

Why do you say wait a month or two to buy the bubble master?

Thanks,

-M

[The Grim Reefer]

That RS80 for 178 bux was too good to pass up. It is keeping up with my 105 tank but I am not heavily stocket yet.

[ridetheducati]

I did not want to totally bash the ASM; because some one reading this thread may have or will purchase an ASM. No sense in making them feel bad.

An undersized skimmer will always keep up with a tank. Here is a challenge, try keeping the skimmer ahead of the tank.

[The Grim Reefer]

Not to worry, I have a second skimmer:D

I plan on running an HOB too. Just having fun seeing what happens, so far 0 trates.

[BryanJ]

Grim do you have a sump as well or just the hang on fuges? Do you feel the euro is doing a good job even though it is supposedly undersized?

[The Grim Reefer]

Have a sump too. The Euro is doing great so far.

[BryanJ]

I have a 120 with about 60 gallons in the fuge / sump. Do you think that the euro can handle it or should I save up for the RS180?

[The Grim Reefer]

With that big a sump I would move up to the 180. I am in a position where I can afford to buy a bigger skimmer if this doesnt work out. I just wanted to see what this little one would do.

[BryanJ]

Reason I asked it is the same size as the deltec ap600 which I would not hesitate to put on the tank.

[sjm817]

I wouldn't use an AP600 or an RS80 on that setup. I'd use an ER RS135, or 180 if you want overkill. For Deltec, the APF600, but an H&S A150 is a better skimmer for less $ than the Deltec.

[BryanJ]

I have been hoping that euroreef would make a promotional 180 like they did with the 80. I would buy it today if they made one. It is all about the contact time and how fine the bubbles are. My turbofloater does a great job it is just to small for the job. thanks for the tip on the H&S I will have to check it out.

[jamal-188]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8784867#post8784867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley




Thats why I'd suggest a Reef Octopus NW150, and then put a meshwheel impellar on it. It'll be much cheaper than the other two options, and outskim both of them by a wide margin.

Why do you say this, the design looks pretty similar so I'm guess it's their pump pulls a lot more air making it that much better?

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8840928#post8840928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamal-188
Why do you say this, the design looks pretty similar so I'm guess it's their pump pulls a lot more air making it that much better?

No, it pulls less than the other two.

The point is, none of these skimmers pull anywhere near the air theyre capable of, and all of them are capable of totally maxing out the bodies theyre attached to, so buy the biggest, cheapest bodied skimmer you can, then tweak the pump.


The ASM G3 pulls about 15 scfh, the NW150 pulls about 12 scfh, and the equivalent ER pulls about 20. These bodies can take about 30, and it takes about 15 minutes and $2 to get all of these pumps to pull more than 30. I just dont see any reason to pay more, when theyre all capable of basically the same thing.

the NW150 runs $140. Its got a 6" body. If you really want, spend the $189 and get the NW200 with its 8" body. I've got a meshwheel on mine, and it pulls 50+ scfh.

[jamal-188]

Where could I pick up a meter to measure the air flow locally? I want to compare a before and after mesh wheel mod to see exactly where I'm at with my G3.

[dmack]

I keep wondering that if what you are saying is true (and I have no reason to believe its not)...Why don't skimmer manufactures just make the changes themselves and sell a much better product? I lose faith in these skimmers when I read over and over that they are not functioning to their potential...they should be modified...its cheap...etc. If a manufacturer can double the performance of its product for $2.00, they should do it.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8841184#post8841184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
No, it pulls less than the other two.

The point is, none of these skimmers pull anywhere near the air theyre capable of, and all of them are capable of totally maxing out the bodies theyre attached to, so buy the biggest, cheapest bodied skimmer you can, then tweak the pump.


The ASM G3 pulls about 15 scfh, the NW150 pulls about 12 scfh, and the equivalent ER pulls about 20. These bodies can take about 30, and it takes about 15 minutes and $2 to get all of these pumps to pull more than 30. I just dont see any reason to pay more, when theyre all capable of basically the same thing.

the NW150 runs $140. Its got a 6" body. If you really want, spend the $189 and get the NW200 with its 8" body. I've got a meshwheel on mine, and it pulls 50+ scfh.

[drock59]

maybe it doesn't double performance. Seems like a no-brainer that the companies would make these changes if:
1. enough customers requested
2. it made their products work more efficiently
3. it is cost effective.

[dmack]

maybe reefers come up with advancements faster than manufactures can make the changes!

[jimdogg187]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8841684#post8841684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dmack
maybe reefers come up with advancements faster than manufactures can make the changes!

Absolutely correct in cases like this.

Manufactures have factories that are tooled to build their current models of skimmers. Any changes require a re-tooling effort, that is obvioulsy (in most cases) expensive, and timely.

All in good time I guess.... but I'm still not sold on the mesh. They defintely produce great numbers, but almost too good to be true. I'm part of the population that will wait for them to become the norm before I am comfortable with them (or wait until royal exclusive switches over, IMO they are the leaders in high quality equipment). I guess its my conservative nature ;).......

Cheers,

Jim

[jda]

Just get the biggest that you can afford that will fit. I have recirc ASM sitting right next to an recirc ER, both with 8 inch bodies and some tweaking, and they both skim the same.

I have not seen more air produce more results. It looks good on paper, but I am not sold that double your air double performance. It seems to help some though.

I need to get an octopus and try it out. I have comment on these.

[robster]

Does anyone sell mesh wheel impellers for the Octopus 110 pump? Or do you have to make your own? If so, can you post a link?

[Fishbulb2]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8841684#post8841684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dmack
maybe reefers come up with advancements faster than manufactures can make the changes!

Not only that but i wonder about patents. the wife is a patent lawyer so it's hard for me not to. If the original makers of meshwheel skimmers knew what they were doing, they would have patented it very well and no other manufacturer could use it regardless of whether or not they thought it was a good idea. I get the suspicion though that these companies rarely patent (or have decent patents) on their equipment.

FB

Oh but if you believe companies would automatically optimize their skimmers for $2 just for their customers, I think that is wrong. The gatevalve mod is the perfect example. I hate riser tubes and gatevalve mods in large number would cost the manufactures very little. Yet most skimmers still come with those dreadful riser tubes probably to save pennies.