A little overwhelmed

[DewDropPony]

I haven't started my first saltwater tank yet. I've been doing freshwater heavily for 6 years now. I started with livebearers, than goldfish, than catfish, than gobies, than cichlids.

I feel as if I have a great footing in freshwater. I feel very comfortable with my understanding of their needs and care. I thought this would better prepare me for keeping saltwater when it came time. I have been reading TFH, including their saltwater for over 2 years now. I also have some books with saltwater info them.

Than, out of the blue, a former saltwater hobbyist gave me his old tank, stand, and equipment. I was soo excited and I still am. I immediately dug out my old issues of TFH and re-read all the saltwater columns. Than I went and re-read my books. Than I out online and joined a bunch of saltwater forums and started researching about corals, fish, inverts, equipment, live rock, etc...After all of that I've come to realize how little about saltwater I really knew. I thought reading TFH for 2 years would at least give me an advantage but after doing more online research I realized those 2 years were just the tip of the ice burg. I feel like my knowledge of freshwater is not helping much at all for saltwater. This has come to make me feel some what overwhelmed this the experience of starting my first saltwater tank. I'm so worried that I'll do something wrong and end up with a tank of dead fish. I'm tempted to just keep one small damsel in my 55gal and nothing else.

Have any of you felt this way when you were new to the hobby?

[Travis L. Stevens]

Oh yes. Most people do. It's even worse when a tank is just suddenly given to you. Take it from my experience, there is nothing (I use that loosely) similar between freshwater, saltwater, and brackish. Saltwater gets a lot more in depth, but when you understand the basic fundamentals, it turns out to be easier than freshwater.

[DewDropPony]

in what way?

[Sk8r]

At first, starting up last Jan. after a 6 year hiatus: all the equipment is new to me.

But at the top of the newbie's forum there are some excellent sticky-threads that will lay out everything you need to know in order.

Let's start by figuring out what you've got---what kind of lights. You're a 55g. Is it drilled? If not you'll need a hob downflow and a sump. A sump can be a 10 or 20 gal tank with some partitions glued in. You'll need some hose, the clamps to keep it in place on the inflows and outflows, and a return pump. YOu do not need a filter: save it for emergencies if you have one.

You'll need a source for dry sand [aragonite is good] and live rock: try a local reef shop.

You'll need a source for ro/di water [WalMart will do, but your own ro/di filtration is best].

You need a skimmer in the sump, and a heater.

Once you have 55 lbs of live rock on order you can start putting the tank together. You should not add sand until your rock is in place.

Set it on eggcrate to prevent tipping, add sand, add water, and wait, feeding one imaginary fish, and testing daily...you need at least basic test kits and equipment. When you've passed the cycle, get some snails.

You're running at that point.

If you never qt'd in freshwater, consider it for salt: the system is too complex to take much abuse. Qt your fish, and dip your corals, and you can't get into much trouble at all.

I've found that saltwater is 'cleaner' than freshwater---less problems, actually, once you get going with the right equipment. The right fish won't nip or eat each other, and people on RC can tell you which ones will and won't [there's nothing meaner than a damsel]; the reasonable corals will grow nicely with no more than the proper lighting and a little fish poo. Not hard at all, if you were a good freshwater farmer.

[DewDropPony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Let's start by figuring out what you've got---what kind of lights.]

I don't have fixures. I only have the bulbs. The guy gave me the bulbs with the tank. I haven't even opened the box to see that wattage they are but whatever they are I'll be using those. I plan to not do corals but have DIY LR. I also plan to make the lighting fixure myself. I found some great plans on a different site of how to do that.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B] You're a 55g. Is it drilled? ]

No, and I'm still not understanding fully why it needs to be. It seems like a huge risk. I'm afraid I''ll break the tank trying to get holes in it. I do have a drill press though. And where in the tank would I drill the holes? How would I put the piping in the holes without the tank leaking? Aquarium silicone? And I heard it is impossible to repair a leak that in close to the bottom of the tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]
If not you'll need a hob downflow and a sump. A sump can be a 10 or 20 gal tank with some partitions glued in. You'll need some hose, the clamps to keep it in place on the inflows and outflows, and a return pump. YOu do not need a filter: save it for emergencies if you have one.]

I have a sea reef trickle filter. Someone told me to take the bio-balls out of it and put in LR rubble. Could I use the rickle filter as the sump?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]
You'll need a source for dry sand [aragonite is good]]

You can they that at home depot, right?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
You'll need a source for ro/di water [WalMart will do, but your own ro/di filtration is best].]

I have a RO unit. Someone suggested I an a chamber to it. I think it was DI chamber they said.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/DewDropPony13/IMG_1793.jpg
this is my RO unit

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
You need a skimmer in the sump, and a heater.]

I have a heater. I thought I had a protein skimmer inside the wet/dry filter but someone told me it was out dated. I want to make one.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/DewDropPony13/IMG_1784.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/DewDropPony13/IMG_1780.jpg

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
...you need at least basic test kits and equipment.]

pH, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, GH, salt level?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
When you've passed the cycle, get some snails.]

why snails?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
If you never qt'd in freshwater, consider it for salt: the system is too complex to take much abuse. Qt your fish, and dip your corals, and you can't get into much trouble at all.]

Yes, I've have a couple tanks I can use as QT'S. I used QT'S before.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[there's nothing meaner than a damsel];]

but what would it be mean to if it was by itself?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637297#post8637297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Not hard at all, if you were a good freshwater farmer.

why don't I believe you?

[Sk8r]

Grin. Looks as if your wet-dry filter could do quite nicely for a sump if you sub in some submerged live rock rubble for the bioballs. You've got the hoses. I'm not sure what that black box with the sponge is---but ditch all bioballs and sponges: nitrate breeders. Your live rock in the tank and the live rock rubble plus a live sandbed can take care of all filtering. You can set an Urchin skimmer in that 'sump' and still have room for a mag 9.5 submergable return pump---your tank is the same size as mine, and I'm just extrapolating my equipment to yours.

Don't try to drill an unknown tank: the chance something's tempered glass is very high, and you'll end up with a real mess. Go with a hob [hang-on-back] downflow to that sump-box, via that white hose [I hope there's enough of it.] If you can haul out and photograph what you have as a skimmer instead of, say, an Urchin, we can see what you might have for an asset there.

Good on that ro unit. A di cylinder would be an asset. THat combo renders your water absolutely pure. But ro itself is a great help.

The tests you need, yes, you have them listed.

Re lighting: if those are mh bulbs don't touch them with your bare fingers. Oils will harm them. The bad news is that the really expensive part is light fixtures and ballasts. And they will dictate what you can keep. If you get T5's at least, you can keep everything but acropora [colored stick] coral.

Why snails? They're not the plague they are in freshwater tanks...usually it's the opposite: you keep having to rebuy. The first sign of life in your new tank is going to be a big bloom of hair algae, and the snails and hermit crabs and a couple of fighting conches will keep it at bay until that phase passes---as it will. You want about 20 snails of all varieties, and scarlet hermits. It's very important in a reef to have all sorts of microlife, from copepods [nearly invisible crustaceans] to hermits, bristleworms, etc. They're your clean-up crew, as in, if something dies, it's gone by morning without spiking your nitrate.

Where does nitrate go in a good reef? Up. Bristleworms break down the crud that gets into the sandbed, and bacteria break it all the way down to nitrogen gas, which escapes in bubbles. Old-fashioned filters just keep the crud at the nitrate stage, where it causes problems. SO you want crud to reach your sandbed.

You don't need [or want] a lid: you'll have to prop your lights up above the open surface of your tank, and the kit should have a glass bottom to prevent splash and fans to move air through to keep the lights cool. These tanks overheat on a dime, and the big problem is keeping them cool.

:) and re the damsel---some are very pretty, but they're sitting there, even alone, plotting world domination. Cranky little blighters. The only damsel I have is my blue chromis, which would probably kill any of his own kind I put in there: he's fine with my other fish. I don't recommend a tang for a 55: mine is in there on a combination of circumstances, like the algae plague from hell, and won't stay forever. But blennies and gobies [check out the sponsors' catalogs] are easygoing, colorful, and best of all---ich resistent.

[bertoni]

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848

I think that thread is a good place to get started.

GH test kits usually aren't useful in saltwater systems, for various reasons. This article discusses water parameters and testing:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[Shagsbeard]

Einstein had an appropriate quote here:

"The greatest barrier to learning a subject is the presumption that you already know it."

Or something to that effect.

You seem to be on the right track, assuming you know little rather than a lot about marine tanks based on your experiences with fresh water. I started last summer assuming I knew nothing. I made lots of mistakes, and learned from them... most hit my pocket book rather than the life of a fish. I'm not done learning about these things.

Reading the stories people have here is a great way to start your knowledge out, but realize that much of what we say is anecdotal rather than scientific.

[nekomi]

Don't worry... in time, you'll figure things out. Just keep reading, reading, reading.

2 years ago, I was new at this too, and became so frustrated that I almost gave it up several times. But I kept reading, and kept asking questions, and kept experimenting and building my setup, step-by-step... as long as you don't try to tackle everything at once, you'll be fine. Just go slow. :)

Remember that there is ALWAYS more to learn. One thing I found out quickly about this hobby is that you can never learn everything. There are always new avenues to research and explore. Reef tank technology, water chemistry, fish, corals, inverts, and DIY skills like you never knew you had. ;) It's a great hobby.

I know you have your tank in-hand already, but taking the time to plan things out thoroughly will pay you back in spades. Don't be in a rush. And remember that you WILL make mistakes. I thought my system was perfect when I finally finished building it (and I had researched it for over a year!), but I sure made some big mistakes. But don't worry, any mistake CAN be fixed.

Keep reading, keep learning, and keep looking at photos of gorgeous reef setups to stay motivated ( :lol: ) and you'll be well on your way to your own slice of the ocean. :)

[DewDropPony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I'm not sure what that black box with the sponge is]

lol. I don't know either. Someone gave all of this stuff to me for free. I wasn't even planning to start a S/W tank for another couple of years.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]You can set an Urchin skimmer in that 'sump' and still have room for a mag 9.5 submergable return pump]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]
Don't try to drill an unknown tank: the chance something's tempered glass is very high, and you'll end up with a real mess.

Thanks. I really didn't want to drill my tank. Someone just told me I should because the syphoning affect that my current system runs on is apparently an out-of-date method prone to overflowing of the tank and/or sump.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]If you can haul out and photograph what you have as a skimmer instead of, say, an Urchin, we can see what you might have for an asset there.]

the guy that gave this to me told me the skimmer was inside the trickle filter. I don't know what a protein skimmer that goes in a trickle filter would look like so that's why I posted the over-view shot. Do you see it?

If not I'll do a DIY skimmer. Got any good plans, websites, ideas for that?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]Re lighting: if those are mh bulbs don't touch them with your bare fingers. Oils will harm them. The bad news is that the really expensive part is light fixtures and ballasts.

thanks! I'll have to look.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]And they will dictate what you can keep. If you get T5's at least, you can keep everything but acropora [colored stick] coral.

I'm probably just going to use whatever bulbs I have in that box.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]Why snails? They're not the plague they are in freshwater tanks...usually it's the opposite: you keep having to rebuy.

Yes, but even in a tank with just fish and LR, no corals?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]It's very important in a reef to have all sorts of microlife, from copepods [nearly invisible crustaceans] to hermits, bristleworms, etc. They're your clean-up crew, as in, if something dies, it's gone by morning without spiking your nitrate. Where does nitrate go in a good reef? Up. Bristleworms break down the crud that gets into the sandbed, and bacteria break it all the way down to nitrogen gas, which escapes in bubbles. Old-fashioned filters just keep the crud at the nitrate stage, where it causes problems. SO you want crud to reach your sandbed.

Would this just benefit my in a reef tank (corals) or should I get inverts for a FOWLR?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]You don't need [or want] a lid: you'll have to prop your lights up above the open surface of your tank

So I shouldn't use my lid for a fish LR only tank?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]and the kit should have a glass bottom to prevent splash and fans to move air through to keep the lights cool. These tanks overheat on a dime, and the big problem is keeping them cool.

Which kit, the lighting kit? I plan to make my own lighting.
Do I need a fan or something for the lighting I would keep on the fish and LR tank?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8637808#post8637808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
[B]But blennies and gobies [check out the sponsors' catalogs] are easygoing, colorful, and best of all---ich resistent.

I want to keep a lionfish. I think blennies and gobies would make an expensive dinner for one. Am I right?

[bertoni]

The lionfish would gladly eat any fish small enough to fit in its mouth.

A tank lid can trap CO2 in the water column and increase the temperature of the tank. I run tanks with and without lids, so either way can work. A lot depends on the exact setup in question.

[phil5613]

The blcak thing with the sponges in it is the hang on the back over flow which takes the water from the tank to the sump. The protien skimmer is also in there Its the cylinder that is next to the black overflow. There is no great mystery to this filter.
You are doing great research keep it up!


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/114491SlimLineInstructions-3.gif

[DewDropPony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8640221#post8640221 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phil5613
The blcak thing with the sponges in it is the hang on the back over flow which takes the water from the tank to the sump. The protien skimmer is also in there Its the cylinder that is next to the black overflow. There is no great mystery to this filter.
You are doing great research keep it up!


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/114491SlimLineInstructions-3.gif

Thank you! I'm glad someone knew what that was. lol! That's a tiny protein skimmer then.

[phil5613]

Small skimmer indeed but depending on your bio load, feeding regiment and especially if you are doing a FOWLR ( Fish Only With Live Rock) you maybe ok with a skimmer that size. I did say maybe because I have gone all over the place myself on this topic. I have done no skimmer on the same setup to my current choice of huge skimmers on everything. That is a choice you will have to make. I dont see you haveing to spend the money on start up until you try thr fee one and see what you think. remember this like it or love it iot was free. so its a good place to start.