Im pouring bleach into my tank...Ive had enough.

[redspot321]

Seriously, Im taking pics along the way for you all to see.

Im looking for feedback on this Idea. I have already made a decision to do it, I just need thoughts and Ideas to ensure my critters are safe.


The Problem......10 months of dinoflagette HELL!!!!!!!! I really can't take anymore of this. I have spent close to a grand trying to get rid of these nasty things.


The plan.... Remove everything (water, corals, etc) from my reef and place it into a SEPERATE storage tank with powerheads. I mean everything! I am then going to pour a gallon of bleach into the main display (without life) and let it run overnight. Hopefully this will kill any and everything in the tank.

After disinfecting the tank, I am going to drain it and refill it with tap water and dechlorinator. I will let this run for an hour.

After neturalizing the chlorine, I am going to drain the system and make 100% fresh salt water. This tank and water should be bug free!

Now I have to take care of the rock and corals.
1. I plan to scrub all rocks with a scrub brush.
2. In a second bucket of original SW from the tank I am going to shake all the Detritus from the rocks.
3. In a third bucket I am going to dip every rock and coral in a lugols solution for 10 minutes then return to the tank.

*****Should I use a freshwater dip here?*****

This is last resort, I have tried everything else!

[Scatcat]

Good Luck man I know how frustrating it can be I still battle with cyno.

Scatcat

[kiknchikn]

I wish you luck as well. I'm dreading an out break like that will happen to me as my tank matures.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think a FW dip will do anything beneficial for you in this case. I could be wrong though?

[redspot321]

Guys thanks for support.

Scatcat have you done a search on cyano? Ive had it before it was fairly easy to rid with flow, 0 TDS, decreased feedings. I also had cyano in my 125 FO tank. Chemi clean knocked it out in 2 days.

[john rochon]

don't do it man, it doesn't gaurentee no more outbreaks in the future. 1 single cell of that stuff can start it up again.
I'm winning the battles after about 7 months [500g tank] so I know your pain. its all about nutrients and I've try'd EVERYTHING.
things that finally paid off.
#1. remove all fish
#2. reduce lights.
#3.syphon top 1/2'' of sandbed after each water change.
#4.run carbon all the time and lots of it and change it often!!
#5.use filter floss on the drains somewere and change it daily.
this has finally paid off for me so I know how you feel cost me tons of $$$ in salt,water and carbon but the tank looks way way better. you'll probally get a bout of flatworms and/or aptasia after this as its an indicator of lots of nutrients as well.

[john rochon]

forgot to add, I also upped my KALK dripping.

[redspot321]

#1. remove all fish (I went fishless for months)
#2. reduce lights ( How much can you reduce them? My sps started to bleach)
#3.syphon top 1/2'' of sandbed after each water change. ( I have no sandbed and turkey baste daily to remove dinos off zoanthids)
#4.run carbon all the time and lots of it and change it often!! ( I do 1 cup every other day in a 55 gallon, should I change more?)
#5.use filter floss on the drains somewere and change it daily. I have not tried this, but I do have a pre filter that I rinse daily.)

I also throw on my magnum hot filter once a week to remove organice down to a few microns.



Dont get me wrong, my tank looks 90% better than it did 9 months ago, but I want them GONE!!! I figure this really cant hurt anything. Mu nutrients should be low after a 100% h2o change with 0 tds water.

Thanks for your reply

[kiknchikn]

Probably a dumb question, as it seems you've been working on this for a long time, but do you use RO water? And do you test it for phos and trates before adding it?

Also, I got rid of the majority of my algae problems (so far) by removing it from my system by wiping it off with paper towels and siphoning it out. I'm sure you've tried that too though.

[pperez]

I am doing the same thing as you except i am getting rid of bubble algea. The only difference is that i will be going all fresh. New rocks and sand. I would not chance it if i was you. Scrubbing the rocks will not eliminate it and you will probably be in the same position down the road. Unless you cook your rocks for months on end. Good luck!

[marinelife]

You should find the problem or you will just get it back in a few months

[trippyl]

do you rinse the food? I find that rinsing the frozen food before I feed it helps alot. And you'd be surprised at just how much crap comes out of the food that otherwise would be going into my tank. I feed primarily frozen mysis, plankton, and a variety of other frozen foods.

I use a few teaspoons of tank water and pour it over the food, then drain the water out again. Repeat a couple of more times. Then feed. Makes a huge difference.

Incidentally, a few months back I did a similar job with the tank in order to remove a coral eating shrimp. I took the opportunity to scrub the rocks and otherwise clean things up. It made no difference in the amount of cyano after about a week or two. OTOH, the effect I get by rinsing the food is really amazing.

[redspot321]

Yes, I use RO, always have. I originally used a 100gpd membrane with a 15 TDS reading. When I first got dinos 10 months ago I switched to a 75 gpd and added a redundant DI filter for TDS readings of 0.

Honestly, I dont fully believe this is a cure for my problem, for its worth a shot! At this point Im willing to try anything any of you suggest.

I have read a few post by reefers that said this kind of measure fixed their dino problem.

People said increasing their ph helped as well, but not for me.

Who knows.

[redspot321]

Shaking the detritus out of the rocks may help though, no?

Marinelife, do you have any suggestions?

[kiknchikn]

That should help remove some nutrients, yes. Might want to scrub them too.

[Ron Popeil]

i know a friend of mine swears by bare bottom tanks. perhaps just removing the sand, and blasting your rocks with water to remove all the settled detritus, then replacing them into your tank will have an effect on the amount of available nutrients in your tank.

[redspot321]

Ron Dont you sell something for this? ?????

I ve been bare bottom for months. I blow off my rocks very often as well........................yea...........

[trippyl]

Shaking and scrubbing rocks will certainly help dislodge whatever crap is in the rocks, and will help to keep the tank clear. but I have a feeling that you will see the cyano come back rather quickly.

Some say BB solves the problem. I don't believe that, although I do believe that BB makes it much easier to keep a clean tank.

Ultimately, the cyano appearing/feeding on something being added to the tank - there is no substance buried in the tank that is just causing recurrant cyano - it's something that you are adding (intentionally or not).

In my case, it seems like that something was in the food which is why rinsing food helped me. Note that I had to rinse the food for a few weeks in order to see a decline in cyano. But all other things remaining the same (i.e. same weekly water changes, same kalk dosing, RO Water, same amount of food being fed), rinsing the food really helped.

[spoiledcats]

What kind of flow do you have in your tank?

[Randall_James]

Wow bleach.... certainly sterilize the tank...

All said above "Excess Nutrient"

The rock may leech nutrient for months after the source is found and stopped (presumably over feeding of the tank)

With no fish in the system, I would think you could do very well at reducing nutrient import and run your macro algae to help export what is in the system.

Systematic cleaning, replacement or removal of the substrate may help as well. (barebottom as you are fixes this problem)

Removal of trapped detritus and garbage from rocks is important too. A power head feeding a hose works wonders for this. It is amazing how much trash is in the rocks... ( I would even do this seperate from the main display to remove the trash once and for all)

I think a big problem is using chemical solutions (band-aids) without addressing the real issue (nutrient import)

[barjam]

I got all my params in line and then nuked it with chemi-clean and it hasn't been back since. I think the stuff is self feeding if you get too much of it.

[redspot321]

trippy, is dinoflagettes not cyano ;) I went fishless for months (no food) I small tang that eats a small amount of nori and a clown that lives off the reef! dinoflagettes are photosynthetic ( can make their own food).

FLOW
RIo 2100 as a return
Internal 2x rio 2100's in each corner of the tank
1 hagen behind the rocks

Plenty O' Flow


CYANO is not what I have in my tank.
Dinos is not algae ;)

[trippyl]

I know that they are different, but given the first four posts in this thread, I didn't think that you did :>

I have no suggestions for combating dino other than to try sucking it out as often as possible when doing water changes.

[gman0526]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8306259#post8306259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
trippy, is dinoflagettes not cyano ;) I went fishless for months (no food) I small tang that eats a small amount of nori and a clown that lives off the reef! dinoflagettes are photosynthetic ( can make their own food).

FLOW
RIo 2100 as a return
Internal 2x rio 2100's in each corner of the tank
1 hagen behind the rocks

Plenty O' Flow


CYANO is not what I have in my tank.
Dinos is not algae ;)

You have plenty flow just not used properly. If there's crap settling on your rock then you're wasting the flow. Tweak the flow first, then go ahead and nuke it if you feel that's what you need to do.

[raddogz]

This how I "cured" this problem.

I added chemi-clean (turned off the skimmer), and turned off the lights for about three and a half days.

I did a twenty percent water change, and kept changing about five gallons every second or third day. I did the following for a week.

The dino stuff went away. The fish and corals came through fine. I had to adjust the lighting for the corals once I had the lighting schedule come back up.

[shinny]

Can you get a picture of your dino problem? I am just curious as to what it looks like in your tank. I am curious how it can look so bad?

[raddogz]

It looks like verticle brown snot or at least mine did. It hung off in strands from the chaeto.

[barjam]

I have red stuff (cyano) that is extremely manageable so far and I had black stuff that was entirely unmanageable. Chemi-clean wiped both out initally and only the red came back (slighty) and now I have green stuff which I rather like because stuff in the tank actually likes to eat it.

Before I got rid of the black/brown snot nothing green would grow. *Nothing*. No algae and my cheato was basically just maintaining it's size. Two days after the black/brown snot was gone I had green slime algae (first time in the tank) and the cheato has exploded.

And for what it is worth flow did absolutely nothing for the black brown snot. At one point I had 900 gph pointed directly at a patch of it and nothing happened.

[barjam]

I forgot to mention that the cyano only came back in the sump in the pump return section (lower flow). I blow it off once a week and everything seems fine.

[Chicago]

stop.. what exactly are your parameters..
what do you dose
what lights do you have
what bulbs do you use
how old are the bulbs.
how much water movement in the tank do you have
what test kit do you use to test for phosphate
what do you use to get make up water.
what do you store it in.
what equipment do you have

doing what you suggest willnot fix the problem
answer all the questions so we can help you

you need to find the source..

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8307382#post8307382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chicago
stop.. what exactly are your parameters.. sg 1.025, Ca 380-400, pH 7.8- 8.2 depending on the time o day, Alk 2.5-3.0 ( phates, trites, trates, zero using salifert kits.
what do you dose- only reef builder on water change day to increase CA then kalk for top off thats it.
what lights do you have-teklight t5
what bulbs do you use -2-10k 2-20k
how old are the bulbs. 6 months
how much water movement in the tank do you have-internal 1400gph
what test kit do you use to test for phosphate- salifert
what do you use to get make up water- 0 TDS kalk drip
what do you store it in - plastic
what equipment do you have- All rio pumps, 2 skimmers made by proaquatics.

[flfirefighter13]

If dinos are photosynthetic why not pull all rock and place it in dark tub for long enough to let it all die? Sterilize the tank, replace the sand QT the livestock and basically start over. Does this Dino stay alive in thwe dark two? I know nothing about Dino so maybe im way off, just a thought......... Or you could just give me the whole tank and Ill take it on, I like a challenge:)




QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8306259#post8306259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
trippy, is dinoflagettes not cyano ;) I went fishless for months (no food) I small tang that eats a small amount of nori and a clown that lives off the reef! dinoflagettes are photosynthetic ( can make their own food).

FLOW
RIo 2100 as a return
Internal 2x rio 2100's in each corner of the tank
1 hagen behind the rocks

Plenty O' Flow


CYANO is not what I have in my tank.
Dinos is not algae ;) [/QUOTE]

[redspot321]

"why not pull all rock and place it in dark tub for long enough to let it all die?" This is next. I dont want to lose my zoanthids.

[redspot321]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/display.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/frags-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/1.jpg
Im going to pull everything tonight when I get home from work, I post pics in the AM.

Wish me luck.

[Chicago]

what size is the tank.. do you have some tangs or any blennies?

can you get your hands on a hann phosphate test kit? you might still have some levels of phosphate, althought i dont think this is the source of your problems..

do you have any pics of the problem?

[Chicago]

dipping in lugols solution will do nothing and may hurt... overdosing of lugols is not a good thing.. if the rock stores it and then you add it back to the system... it will leach

i would try more tangs and blennies.. get naturaly controls.. by the way how old is the tank... you may have already mentioned it.. what kind of sand did you use?

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8307566#post8307566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/display.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/frags-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/1.jpg
Im going to pull everything tonight when I get home from work, I post pics in the AM.

Wish me luck.
if those are the pics of yur tank then you must just be playing. I don't see a bad case of algae. Guess you are just playing, huh?

[FLricordia]

If you are serious hope you don't mean the rock and sand you are going to destroy. I;m sure you know you will keill all your bacteria and then recycle your tanks and kill all your corals and fish. Might as well take it all to a LFS and start a differetn hobby-
or cut your lights back to a few hours a day, feed fish only 2 times a weeks, get something like this to run in a filter http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13965&Ntt=phospure&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1
i use it and don't even use a protien skimmer. It works. Might take a few weeks to get back to normal, but all it takes is patience. In the mean time you can review your husbandry practices and use a good RO/DI and kalk. This also works. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12758&Ntt=weis&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1
Good luck.
Here is my 20cube with no skimmer, water changes every 2-3 weeks, light feedings, light cycle 12 hours, rubbing the inside glass w/ my hand every 2-3 days.
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/847320nano10-08-06reduced-med.jpg

[Dr Begalke]

Good luck.

[Randall_James]

Even though it is photosynthetic, it still requires nutrients from your water column.

Phosphates may be present but being adsorbed as fast as they are being released by the substrate or rock. Long term over feeding has been shown to saturate liverock with phosphates that are released after the problem is fixed. (and I thought you said your tank was bb? I see substrate)

I would still do a thorough blasting job on the rock, make sure all the gunk you can see is gone, and black out the tank for 24 hours. (black bag trick)
Restart the lighting periods

This should start to get a handle on the problem. The brown snot will subside pretty quickly but if there is still excess nutrient in the tank, it will come back. Vacuume, blast and black it out again

The stuff is nasty to deal with but not impossible

[Scatcat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8304606#post8304606 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
Guys thanks for support.

Scatcat have you done a search on cyano? Ive had it before it was fairly easy to rid with flow, 0 TDS, decreased feedings. I also had cyano in my 125 FO tank. Chemi clean knocked it out in 2 days.

Dude I've done it all I did decrease it I noticed when I had my skimmer turned off I had less now I'm thinking of not skimming don't get me wrong it's not bad but I don't like seeing any of it. I scares I've battled it in my nano for so long now to see it in my 75 I want to scream. I'm thinking a dose of chemi clean and now skimming we'll see.

[Flamehawk365]

Good luck redspot!!!

I sympathize! Been there... and it was a nightmare. I tried everything... in the end I threw out all my rock, cleaned out the tank entirely and started over.

I didn't want to throw out my rock.. but I asked everybody that had a tank... and even asked the fish store.. they didn't have a clue.

Had I known about this site then.... I would have made different decisions, no doubt!

[zemuron114]

i dont see anything wrong with it?

[rcmike]

Yeah, where is it? I don't see any problem at all with that tank. If you try those drastic changes it is possible that you will cause more problems.

[barjam]

I see nothing wrong with that tank, what am I supposed to see?

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8308503#post8308503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flamehawk365
Good luck redspot!!!

I sympathize! Been there... and it was a nightmare. I tried everything... in the end I threw out all my rock, cleaned out the tank entirely and started over.

I didn't want to throw out my rock.. but I asked everybody that had a tank... and even asked the fish store.. they didn't have a clue.

Had I known about this site then.... I would have made different decisions, no doubt!

Thanks! I feel like I just pulled the plug on life support from a faimly member........
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/buckets.jpg

Guys, thanks for all the help. Just to be honest though Ive been doing this 10+ years. I know about feedings, nutrients, etc. I keep a very nice tank as you can see. These Dinos are a real problem, god bless you if you ever get them!!!!!!!!



More pics to come.

[redspot321]

The pics of the tank are from months ago, just some motivational pics for me, this is what I want back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kurt03]

im confused, wheres the dinos in those shots? idk what they look like.

[redspot321]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/DINOS.jpg

These are dinos

[raddogz]

I had this same issue when I had initially setup my 58 (transferring rock from 40g). The chaeto was in the 40g display at the time and I did the same in the tank upgrade. The chaeto carried the dino issue over.

I'm sure the rocks were laden with phosphates at the time - coming from a five year crushed coral substrate to a bare-bottom tank. The dino issue was awful and the water changes (ro/di changed every six months) every week wasn't doing anything.

Chemi-clean and turned off the lights followed by water changes seemed to do the trick for me.

[redspot321]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/dinos.jpg

This is a mild case here, about 1 days worth.

Keep in mind that I have to blow this off everyday with a turkey baster so it does not get too thick. This light brown stuff releases toxins that cause corals to close up. Look at the zoanthids below, do you see them peeling?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/zoanthids.jpg

[corals b 4 bills]

Have you thought of spending those thousands of dollars on new live sand and live rock-done, problem solved.

[redspot321]

Corals, most of the money was spent stuff I could have used any ways. bulbs, skimmer, ro filters, extra Di canister. I just replaced them when I did not need to.

Now I have some extra bulbs if I need them, and I guess the skimmer and di you cant go wrong with.

But hell ya, I spent some money on salt, snails and phosphate remover media. Not to mention my time.


Knowing what I know now.......I would start over in a heart beat!

I way too far into it now............................................

Here she is I just scrubed everything and did a 100% water change.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/DSCN0978.jpg

Only time will tell..

[kiknchikn]

Lets hope that your method worked for you. It sounds like you've been through a lot trying to fix this problem lol

[Randall_James]

I would black the tank out for at least 24 hours and better 36. Taping black bags (black bag trick) on all sides should stop any light from getting in. At lights back on, you should be able to resume normal lighting without any trouble. (a day of darkness hurts nothing, might even cause a spawning event :) )

Keeping in mind that if this is a leeched phosphate issue, you may still have some agony, but it will get decidedly easier to deal with hang in there......

[redspot321]

What a day. My hands are red and hurt from rubbing and scrubbing.

Things that left an impression, and things I thought of, while I did this project. Please comment if you would like.

1.This Sucks!
2.Why am I doing this
3.refer to #1


No really.
1. I had very little detritus. I really expected much more to come from the rocks. I guess when your hitting them with a turkey baster everyday there wouldn’t be much let.
2. In my prefilter box, under ther prefilter sponge, there was a colony of vermetid snails. I pull the sponge frequently, but I cannot see behind the tank to notice the snails growing on the plumbing. This colony was the size of a golf ball, all snails.
3. After pulling all of the LR, I discovered THOUSANDS and still counting, of small white circular snails. They are spiral shaped. WHAT ARE THESE????? ARE THEY REEF SAFE?
4. Although there was not much detritus in the rocks, I did feel that all of the base rock has a large amount of “sludge” on it. A light brown, almost oily substance.


I don’t know if any of this has to do with dinos, but I feel now that I have done everything in my power.

Time will tell if this has helped, Ill keep this thread up dated. If this has not worked I truly think I will throw in the towel. I have spent SSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOoooooooo much time (away from my family) with this problem.

Fingers crossed!

[redspot321]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/redspot321/snails.jpg

What are these?

[raddogz]

Little tube worms is what it looks like - perfectly normal in a reef.

[Chicago]

those snails your refer to i believe are safe.. they come out at night... i have many of them and have asked the same question...

any pics of the snails to be sure.... what you will see is that if you have a frag or coral head that starts to stn they will snack on the mucus.. do not confuse this with the fact that the snails were the cause of the rtn or stn..

peace

[john rochon]

just hang in there, for whatever reason I had them for so long as well. there finally leaving. from what I can only guess is that it has to be something getting thru an RO/DI system thats not the greatest setup. 0TDS doesn't mean alot because the meters are not that accurate. I changes to vertical DI reason [color changing] and silica buster cartridge along with catalic carbon. hopefully this will help. I also removed all my DIY rock because who knows??
my bioload will stay really low this time as well.

[bpatrol]

black out your tank(lights off) for at least one day maybe two. corals will be fine and it will knock down any excess dino's you missed.dont give up...you can win....bpatrol

[MAJOR MC]

Cyno Problem? Here's an idea. First step is to cut down on oxygen levels in your tank. It is often recommended to increase water flow with cyno but if cyno is a bacteria than it needs oxygen to grow. I watched a show on cyno on the discovery channel once and where it thrives naturaly in the ocean is where it is fast moving water and is extremely oxygenated. My experience with this is to lower power heads so they do not agitate the serface water as much or decrease the amount of water going over the overflow. You should notice a decline in cyno after a few days. If your problem is really bad I recommend also dosing your system with an antibiotic called EM tablets. It's a little trick I learned from an old boss I had working in a large aquarium store. We used 1/4 to 1/2 dosage in our 800 gallon coral and invert system two days later cyno gone, cost $3.50. We have had to dose the system about 4 times in the past 4 t0 5 years and it has worked every time. Next time you have cyno give these easy steps a try and I hope it works for you as it did me.

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8319474#post8319474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MAJOR MC
Cyno Problem?

I wish.

My tank is still in the dark, I will start out with a 4 hour photoperoid starting at 7 pm tonight.

Pics and updates soon to come.

[supernareg]

if its cyano, simplest solution = boyds chemi clean.

[Zoom]

You know i have Dinos for over a year now like you i have been doing the reefing thing for many decades.
I try every thing no good still have them.
I notice one thing this week I have no snails at all dinos kill them all .
but i now notice i have no cyno with the dinos any longer . Most of the snail i pull them out when they die but many Die and fall back in to the rocks i have 400-500 LBS of rock so it is no way i'm going to do what you did but out all this i notice i had very light dino till i start to loose the Big turbos snails so the ones i did not get out they made my water full of organics and then the dinos really take off .
So let me know If you see any more dinos after all that work you did.

[MAJOR MC]

I'm new to this forum but I've been in the hobby for twenty years and have worked with hobbiest for almost eleven years. I answer questions like this on a regular if not daily basis, and there are other little tweaks you can make to avoid this terribley annoying pain in the arse. I need to know more about your system. Pictures can almost tell all, if they are detailed. I know I can't help everyone but the more I know about the entire system, the more I can help. I have delt with cyno in many different instences, not only my own tanks over the years but customer, after customer, after customer, after customer, with results. If you give me specifics eg. quantities or measurements of (food, water, flow, light. temperature, live stock) as well as equipment eg. ( filters, pumps, lighting, aquarium, sump , and refugium) and anything else you can think of. It will help! You should know if the work you did was the answer with in a week or so, if not take my advise. What can it hurt?

[MAJOR MC]

I can't quite tell if you have overflow or not. What do you have for filter if any?

[john rochon]

MAJOR,, ITS NOT CYNO LOL. its DINOFLAGELLATES. totally different beast.

[redspot321]

Thank you, john.

Zoom, Yes the dinos did take out about 40-50 snails over the past 10 months. Luckily I don't have a tank packed full of LR and was able to pull them as soon as they hit the bottom of the tank. When I disassembled my system a couple days ago I didnt find one empty snail.

Today I will run 8 hrs photoperoid, with 4 bulbs running only 4 hours.

[fingersdlp]

Does phosphate play a role with dinos? I only ask because you mentioned you store your top off in "plastic". I used to use rubber maid roughneck but found the ones I had leached phosphate back into the water. If you store some RO water (no kalk) in it for a few days and check the tds does it go up significantly?

B.

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8326227#post8326227 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fingersdlp
Does phosphate play a role with dinos? B. Yes they do, Dinos' are single cell algae and do need nutrient as well as light to thrive.

[Racenrich]

i dont think your corals are going to like the bleach...id stick with doing simple Saltwater changes. :D

hope your get your outbreak taking care of......

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8326227#post8326227 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fingersdlp
Does phosphate play a role with dinos? I only ask because you mentioned you store your top off in "plastic". I used to use rubber maid roughneck but found the ones I had leached phosphate back into the water. If you store some RO water (no kalk) in it for a few days and check the tds does it go up significantly?

B.
I run one litter of Rowa on a Deltec Rowa reactor and change the media ever 45 days i have no phosphates problem at all.
I run R/O DI water directly to the sump with T/O system never store any.
We need something New to kill the Dinos. I did all the usual and beyond.

[redspot321]

Steve have you thought about cooking your LR?

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8329601#post8329601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
Steve have you thought about cooking your LR?
I did cook my rock about three years a go .
I did half and then the other half.
Tonight i change my Rowa I use 1 litter i check the P04 and was 0.02 so not bad i use the LFS colorimeter.
A good reef friend of mine stop over and said he got Dinos also he did not know what it was killing his snails but he said after some time they just go away by them self i have them for almost a year now i don't see them gone away by them self .
You know i'm to the point of giving up trying to get my tank clear of the Dinos. I 'm going to stop now and see the outcome of it maybe if i stop they will go away.:lol:

[redspot321]

SteveI tried that at month 6, all my fish died and I lost a couple colonys of zoanthids.

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330081#post8330081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
SteveI tried that at month 6, all my fish died and I lost a couple colonys of zoanthids.
None of my fish die. i lost about ten wild heads of SPS slowly STN on me . i have some of my SPS with full polyp extension and dinos slapping on them with the current they never care they don't grow as fast but they look healthy it is crazy.
I don't know what else to do i think i'm done for now.

[CyanoMagnet]

Hi .. Id like to add that having a refugium has realy helped keep my tank clean..

Ive never realy had a dyno problem, but as my name suggests I had the worst cyano problem ever..

There was a time my tank was entirely black from cyano growing everywhere..

I fixed my skimmer which was not working properly for some time , and I got a hang on refugium..

The cyano is gone. But more than that, I rarely have to even clean my glass now because nothing grows on it .. Everything is in the refugium.. I have a ton of macro algae in there and sometimes I even see cyano in there.. Never in main tank.

Hope this helps.

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330615#post8330615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyanoMagnet
Hi .. Id like to add that having a refugium has realy helped keep my tank clean..

Ive never realy had a dyno problem, but as my name suggests I had the worst cyano problem ever..

There was a time my tank was entirely black from cyano growing everywhere..

I fixed my skimmer which was not working properly for some time , and I got a hang on refugium..

The cyano is gone. But more than that, I rarely have to even clean my glass now because nothing grows on it .. Everything is in the refugium.. I have a ton of macro algae in there and sometimes I even see cyano in there.. Never in main tank.

Hope this helps.
Is this what you talking about?
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/1251010-11-06_009__Large_-med.jpg
Here is a better picture of the bottom of the tank it is a 50 gallon Sump/Refugium there with a large tumbling cheato that is getting harvest once a week.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/1251010-11-06_010__Custom_-med.jpg

[Randall_James]

oh my gosh looky at all that spare room under the tank :(

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330801#post8330801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
oh my gosh looky at all that spare room under the tank :(
Yes i have some :lol: that is because the big boy is on the outside of the stand .
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/125108-10-06_011__Large_-med.jpg

[melev]

The pictures I saw in this thread don't look all that bad. The tiny white things can be found in reef tanks, overflow boxes , and sumps. They are Spirorbid Worms, which are filter feeders. It won't hurt to scrape them off if they obstuct your view, but they are harmless. Reef-safe. The ones you saw on your rockwork are nothing to worry about.

I didn't see a single post listing your tanks current parameters. Can you post these please? Especially alkalinity.

[redspot321]

melev, ph8.2,
trates, trites, phoate undetectable
Ca 380-400
Alk 2.5
Sg 1.024-1.026 depending on eveporation.

BTW my display is dino free at the moment! All of my LR is in a container though. Corals and frags on mounted LR looking good. Im not sure when to reintroduce zoanthids. How long can they be in total darkness?

[Randall_James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8393748#post8393748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321

Sg 1.024-1.026 depending on eveporation.

BTW my display is dino free at the moment! All of my LR is in a container though. Corals and frags on mounted LR looking good. Im not sure when to reintroduce zoanthids. How long can they be in total darkness?

That is a lot of evaporation... on a 180G tank that is around 11 gallons of water...

Zoanthids will last a week or two without any light but you need to introduce them back slowly (3 or 4 hours the first couple days). Really no reason to keep them completely blacked out for more than 3 or so days.



Glad the dinos are letting up :)

[melev]

Your alkalinity reading sounds a bit low to me. I'm guessing your 2.5 is meq/L - that is 7.0 dKH. Our tanks need alkalinity to read 8 to 11 dKH or 2.86 - 3.89 meq/L

Do you top off daily? Is it RO/DI water, and have you tested the TDS of the water?

[redspot321]

Melev, Yes it RO/DI. TDS of 0 with two different tds meters. I top off daily with kalkwasser. Ive had my alk as high as 5 meq/l for a week when I tried to boost my ph levels with proper ph.

[syddakyd]

holy crap i have something that looks liek that on my zoanthoid rock. is this the reason mine are almost all closed up and lost 23 astra snails?

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8397883#post8397883 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by syddakyd
holy crap i have something that looks liek that on my zoanthoid rock. is this the reason mine are almost all closed up and lost 23 astra snails?
If the snail die it is dino's and when the snails die the tank gets full of cyno.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8397579#post8397579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
Melev, Yes it RO/DI. TDS of 0 with two different tds meters. I top off daily with kalkwasser. Ive had my alk as high as 5 meq/l for a week when I tried to boost my ph levels with proper ph.

It would be best if you could stabilize that number daily for a month. Aiming for 4.46 meq/L (12 dKH) should do the job. I saw in the other thread how your tank turned white, and that would be overdosing for sure. Lots of people can run high alkalinity without causing that effect in their tank.

A few years ago, lots of respected hobbyists kept their Alk at 12 or 13 dKH to get faster growth out of the SPS corals. Since natural reef parameters are 8 to 11, that would definitely be on the high side, and some people experienced precipitation when the ionic balance collapsed at one point.

Your current Alk going up and down like a yoyo will not help nor resolve dinoflaggellates.

[syddakyd]

what should i do then

[benray4fun]

My two cents...
get a bigger more diverse cleanup crew...a reef cleaner pack, a detritus pack, feed less, clean filters more & anything that will keep you from having to go through this again... You have/had a great looking tank and I'm sad to see you go through that..."time to step up your game"...

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8399625#post8399625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by benray4fun
My two cents...
get a bigger more diverse cleanup crew...a reef cleaner pack, a detritus pack, feed less, clean filters more & anything that will keep you from having to go through this again... You have/had a great looking tank and I'm sad to see you go through that..."time to step up your game"...

If you indeed have dinoflagellates, I would NOT get a new clean up crew. Simply put, they will die if the dino is not taken care of first.

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8398708#post8398708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev

Your current Alk going up and down like a yoyo will not help nor resolve dinoflaggellates.

Melev, I will bring it up a bit. Just remember this has been over a peroid of ten month. My parameters have been stable except during times of expermentation with ph swings and alk.

[melev]

Whatever you aim for, stability is key. I would try to achieve the same number day in and day out, if at all possible. Once you figure out the exact amount necessary, it won't be hard. For example, if you drip 1g of kalkwasser that is 1.5tsp of kalk powder each day, you know that is your standard. If you need to bump it up higher to 2tsp per day, so be it. Or perhaps you only need to drip .5g per day, or 1.5g per day.

I'm not a fan of the slurry method in smaller tanks because the stuff can land on corals and sting them. After all, we use the same stuff to nuke aiptasia, right?

Whatever you do, it should be possible to dose it without the white walls and scraping issue.

[benray4fun]

check this out...
http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/palynology/dinoflagellates/dinoflagellates.html

It says that phosphates is a big contributor...

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8400072#post8400072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by benray4fun
check this out...
http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/palynology/dinoflagellates/dinoflagellates.html

It says that phosphates is a big contributor...

Im dont doubt that phosphates could fuel these bugs, but they can be completely photosynthetic as well....and make their own food.

"Many are photosynthetic, manufacturing their own food using the energy from sunlight, and providing a food source for other organisms"
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/protista/dinoflagellata.html

[mcurl98]

I, too, have dinos in my tank. The tank is 2.5 months old. Is this part of the new tank syndrome or am I doomed before really even getting started? No nitrates,ammonia or phosphates. Alk 11.5, CA 430. PH 8.35 evening/8.25 morning. Temp 79-80. 90 gallon with 2 very small Percs (about an inch), a small Cardinal and a CB Butterfly. Also, 4 cleaner shrimp, 24 Astrea, 45 Nassarius and about 15 Ceriths. 40 Gal fuge with Chaeto and DSB. No dead snails. Have had the dinos for about 10 days. Been siphoning them out best I can. They come back daily on the rocks and overflow walls. They started once I began to run the lights on the tank. I don't even want to think about having to start over-but I guess better now than later.

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8401157#post8401157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mcurl98
Also, 4 cleaner shrimp, 24 Astrea, 45 Nassarius and about 15 Ceriths.

If you had dinoflagellates the above creatures would be DEAD....hopefully your just going through a diatom bloom wich is normal for a tank that age.

[mcurl98]

I'll try to take some pics as it looks exactly like what you have shown in pics. Starts out as a brown fuzzy rock covering with bubbles attached. After a day or so, long hairlike strands develop (up to about 6 inches long)-they also collect some bubbles. Siphons off easy, feels slimy and smells very bad. The snails (Astrea)seem to stay on the top rocks of the tank and seem to stear clear of it. The Nass stay in the sand and I have none of it in the sand. Haven't seen the Ceriths or shrimp go near it. If it has been only 10 days and I've been fairly diligent cleaning it-still think they'd be dead already?

[reef 'n ale]

Any updates, redspot? I've had no luck at all with the kalk, although at first it seemed promising. :(

I'm getting close to taking drastic measures!

I'll see if I can post a couple of pics tonight - I have a feeling the scientific community would love to see this sh*t in my tank! hehe...

Rob

[redspot321]

reef, I beat em!!!

Look here http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=954264

[petoonia]

So what do you think helped the most?

Congratuations on beating it!!!

[redspot321]

Keeping the LR in complete darkness for 5 days, without a doubt, solved this problem. There was major die off in the rubbermaid containers.

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8505282#post8505282 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
Keeping the LR in complete darkness for 5 days, without a doubt, solved this problem. There was major die off in the rubbermaid containers.
Don't forget to add the water temp got up to 88F also that I think made a big difference.

[redspot321]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8505546#post8505546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zoom
Don't forget to add the water temp got up to 88F also that I think made a big difference.

That too.....however some people run their reefs that high dont they?

I wonder how many of the people that have high temps have had dinos?

[Zoom]

I run mine at 77F

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8505588#post8505588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redspot321
That too.....however some people run their reefs that high dont they?

I wonder how many of the people that have high temps have had dinos?

No, at 85F many reef tanks run into issues due to lowered oxygen levels. 88F would be pretty darn high, especially for days at a time.

My tank runs 79F to 81F.