LifeReef Siphon Box Not Working Right

[Tobman]

I got my plumbing up and running last night, hooked up my LifeReef Siphon Box and let the system rip.

The siphon box is sucking in gobs of air in the down tube and blowing it out into the sump, which is 6.5 feet down in the basement, straight shot.

I am using an Eheim 1260, which at 6.5 feet should be running at about 300-350 gph.

The water levels in both the inner and outer boxes are very low. The water level in the inner box is 1-1.5 inches above the siphon intake and water is cascading down into the inner box and generating lots of little bubbles.

The water level in the outer box (the prefilter section) is right about the level of the intake, and sucking air.

There is no air in the siphon tube.

How do I fix this?

Could it be because the pump is too small? Or is it because of the 6.5 foot straight drop to the sump? Or something else.

[The Grim Reefer]

The air is being sucked in with the water as it flowes down the drain in the outter siphon box, this is normal. You can add a filter sock over the inlet to the sump to help break up the bubbles.

[Packdog]

I'm using the lifereef pre-filter and needed to make several adjustments.

I'm going low flow so I asked for a smaller diameter "u-tube" so as not to get air trapping in the siphin tube.....doubt this is your problem.


I also had a great deal of thunder going into my sump, which is only the typical 4 ft below my display. I did as Grim said and put a filter sock on , but it didn't completely solve the problem...there was alot of air mixing with the water which was causing a irritating abount of bubbles, gurgling, slurping, etc....

I also made a valve tee from the return back to the sump so as to throttle the flow...this changes the flow as well as the noise. This is the same valve melev uses on his site.

I made a DIY stockman standpipe, and fiddled with the height and air hole sizes and it made a big difference...check it out (http://www.dursostandpipes.com/)

I have a feeling , the added distance you are dumping the water magnifies the noise and splash.

Try the standpipe and it may properly balance the air/water mix and quiet things to a more tolerable lebel.

[sjm817]

The low level in the skimmer box is indicative of a lower flow rate. Nothing wrong with this and would be expected using a 1260 as a basement pump.
Since the drain pipe is not "full", air will fill up the space. Slide some airline tubing into the drain. It should go just a little way in. Tune it till its quiet. You could also try a Stockman standpipe. LR sells is as an option. They call it an Aqua silencer.

If possible, change the drain plumbing so that it isn't such a straight shot down. This may help some too.

[Beach Native]

I've been running a LR on mine for years without any problems.

The best solution to noise is the Stockman/Durso type of fix.

No matter what you do though, you are not going to completely get rid of air in the line so the filter sock or some kind of trick plumbing will also need to be incorporated at the receiving end. There a several different solutions for that floating around in this forum.

[bklynmet]

Sounds like your return pump may not be be giving you enough flow withthe head you got. Remember that elbows, check valves, and other fittings contribute to loss of head pressure. The flow rate vs head charts do not account for losses due to plumbing.

Bubbles returning to your tank can be reduced/eliminated effectively with baffles in the sump. melevsreef.com has a good discussion on baffles if I remember correctly.

w.r.t noise cascading in your drain line, the use of some sort of durso would help.

[Tobman]

The air is going down the tube into the sump in great gulps, and lots of little bubbles. I've seen a LR siphon working well, and that it does vortex into downtube and create some bubbles, but mine is huge gulps of air, like the siphon is too big for the flow into it. It is starting right at the inlet, and the water level is very low in the outerbox (and the inner box too, 1.5 in above siphon inlet, less than an inch at teeth).

The sump baffles handle the huge amounts of bubbles perfectly (no problem there).

I tried airline tubing of 2 different sizes. 1/16 or smaller, and 1/4", like what comes with the bottom vacuum siphon tubes. Only the large diameter one sucked enough air, and it did take most of the air, but still made much noise and sent huge bubbles into both refuge and skimmer section.

Slowing the overflow flow to sump did not help.

My Eheim 1260 is at max flow and still the water level in the inner and outer boxes is very low.

My plumbing is a straight shot to the refugium, and a 90 degree (T connector) to the sump, either way it slurps big air.

It seems to me that it is because the Eheim is only pumping 300 gph or less (no way to measure actual flow), and therefore the water levels are very low in the siphon box.

Does it make sense that if I were able to get closer to 500-700 gph, the water levels in the siphon box would rise? That would help a lot I think.

[sjm817]

I would say your flow is pretty low. I use a 1260, and the level is maybe 1" below the bottom of the teeth. My sump is under the stand. The large straight drop to the basement sump is also a factor. Can you add a bend to the plumbing setup so that it doesn't freefall?

[Tobman]

I had a nearly half-circle bend at the end into the refugim, and I've got a 90 degree into the skimmer section, with ball valves on both.

I took the bend out thinking it was catching air, and then gulping it. Changing the relative amounts into refugium versus skimmer didn't make any difference. It all starts at the inlet,as the water is rushing out of siphon so fast the flow into the siphon can't keep up. And yet there is no air collecting in the siphon tube itself.

[sjm817]

No air collecting in the siphon tube is a good thing!

Call Jeff @ Lifereef and see what he says. He sells a 3/4" U Tube that may help. It would increase the level in the skimmer box, but I'm not sure that 3/4" would be too small. Maybe the Stockman standpipe would help.

[Packdog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305625#post8305625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
No air collecting in the siphon tube is a good thing!

Call Jeff @ Lifereef and see what he says. He sells a 3/4" U Tube that may help. It would increase the level in the skimmer box, but I'm not sure that 3/4" would be too small. Maybe the Stockman standpipe would help.

Pretty much what I posted. I have both "u-tubes" does effect the water level/capacity but didn't make a difference on the noise.

Again, the stockman made a huge difference...do you have one ??

If not, it takes about $2 worth of supplies and 20 min of your time.

People use them for a reason...they work.

[Tobman]

I just ordered one of LifeReef's Aquasilencers.

My problem is not just the noise, but the amount of air going into the sump; there is way too much air.