Successful keepers of Christmas tree worms

[dendro982]

Successful keepers of Christmas tree worms, what invertebrates or fish shouldn't be kept in the same tank with CTW, other than shrimps and butterfly fish? Crabs?

I'm in process of planning 20g long tank aquascaping and stocking, compatible with big Christmas tree rock, which will be center piece.

Would like to include other corals too, if there are no counter-indications. And fish - will blue-green chromises be safe for CTW?

I already have Christmas tree rock in 5g hexagon, together with filter-feeding sea cucumber, for a couple of months. So far, so good.

[whatcaneyedo]

I'd worry mostly about butterfly fish. I tried putting a Copperbanded Butterfly in my tank with my porites worm rock and I had to remove the butterfly to a different tank because it was eye balling the worms too much... The butterfly then ate all of the fan worm on the liverock in the other tank. Close call.

[Helio Fungii]

My Blue tang and coral beauty used to give them a fair bit of trouble but they dont anymore due to the new macro algae to nibble on.

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8240141#post8240141 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dendro982
Successful keepers of Christmas tree worms, what invertebrates or fish shouldn't be kept in the same tank with CTW, other than shrimps and butterfly fish? Crabs?


There are not too many successful keepers of Christmas tree worms, their survival rate is very low in captivity. I should know, I got some as hitchhikers on my TBS live rock and I've been trying to keep them alive ever since.

I started with 5, I currently have one that is 15 months old, but it does not look very healthy and the rest passed away anywhere from 9-13 months in my tank. I have been feeding phyto at least twice a week, sometimes more often (phyto is their primary food source).

If you are planning on feeding a wide variety of phyto very often (more than twice a week, it wasn't enough for mine), then you might have a chance at keeping them. Of course a very large tank with a large refugium would be better, but doesn't seem like a possibility here?

If not, you might want to consider a different centerpiece. Beautiful animals to be certain, but just not very long lived in our tanks.

A little light reading on their poor survival:

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen21.html

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/toonen.htm

Brian

[FLricordia]

The x-mas tree worms on my Porites are doing great and several small have appeared. At first the porites was dieing back, then I moved it into my fuge under lower light and it has regrown and made full recovery. It is brownish red, velvety looking with red christmas tree worms, about 10 or so. I shut off water movement and bath it in a cloud of phytoplex 1-2 times a week. Currently sitting 8" below 36wtPC 50/50.
I believe they need lower lighting than most corals. The porites that is. Guess the worms don't need any. The only inhabitants of the fuge are small watchman goby and tiger pistol.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_273-med.jpg

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8369698#post8369698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FLricordia
[B]I believe they need lower lighting than most corals. The porites that is. Guess the worms don't need any. The only inhabitants of the fuge are small watchman goby and tiger pistol.


Very pretty rock and worms! How long have you had it?

You are correct, the worms do not need any light, just lots of phyto (of the correct size).

The lighting for the coral depends on where that coral was collected. Some corals need high light, others need low light. In general Porites tend to like very high light, but as you found in your case, that isn't always true.

I saw a Christmas Tree worm rock (OK boulder) when I was diving in Hawaii. At low tide that rock was in only 1-3' of water, so the coral definitely needed, or was able to withstand, very high light.

Brian

[Grunt]

Offer them lots of phyto, you might also try baby brine(newly hatched) and selcon enriched food, you can try to spot feed cyclopeeze. I had a colony that lasted alittle over a year. I fed a ton and had water quality issues because of it, but they survived. I never tried feeding in a bowl though like as if they were smaller clams. If I ever get another colony I would probably attempt that. My colony was given to a friend when I went into the Army years back, I don't know about its current health.

You might also want to culture your own phyto and try diffrent strains. They might accept the smaller versions better then your normal phyto. Check the fish breeding forum for info on obtaining/growing phyto.

Good luck and keep us posted.

p.s. your a bad influence, now I want to get another colony to attempt feeding strategies for long care survival. :D

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8370356#post8370356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Grunt
[B]Offer them lots of phyto, you might also try baby brine(newly hatched) and selcon enriched food, you can try to spot feed cyclopeeze. I had a colony that lasted alittle over a year. I fed a ton and had water quality issues because of it, but they survived. I never tried feeding in a bowl though like as if they were smaller clams. If I ever get another colony I would probably attempt that. My colony was given to a friend when I went into the Army years back, I don't know about its current health.


According to Dr Shimek, it takes them about 9 months to one year to starve in our tanks and small amounts of phyto just prolongs it slightly. Success with Christmas tree worms is measured as 2+ years, if you can keep them that long, that means they are getting enough food to survive.

No one has really done gut analysis of christmas tree worms and many suspect they are actually many different species with many different foods taken. The best we can hope to do is to provide a variety of foods and try to determine which ones are consumed by them (nearly impossible to do without killing them for gut analysis).

I currently feed my tank a mixture of baby brine shrimp (newly hatched) and the following food mixed together in a blend: Krill, mysis, table shrimp, flake food, DTs oyster eggs, Formula One frozen food and another mysis. It is mixed together with selecon and garlic. This mixture is fed twice a week.

I also feed twice a week (on other days, so my tank gets some kind of food 4 times a week) some type of phyto (usually a mixture of Nano, T.iso and another one, or alternatively DTs reef blend). When I feed DTs it is only a couple of capfuls, when I feed homemade phyto it is 1-2 cups.

I've done the above feeding schedule for the past 6 months and was a little lighter feeding before then, but still at least 3 times a week combined. It wasn't enough for my worms, so something else needs to be added to the mixture.

I just started using reef roids and I bought a mortar and pestle to grind up my flake food really fine. I'm adding both of those now in an attempt to keep my last 2 christmas tree worms alive.

My porcelain crab LOVES the reef roids and ground up flake food, I've never seen it get so animated!

Brian

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8370048#post8370048 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianPlankis
Very pretty rock and worms! How long have you had it?

You are correct, the worms do not need any light, just lots of phyto (of the correct size).

The lighting for the coral depends on where that coral was collected. Some corals need high light, others need low light. In general Porites tend to like very high light, but as you found in your case, that isn't always true.

I saw a Christmas Tree worm rock (OK boulder) when I was diving in Hawaii. At low tide that rock was in only 1-3' of water, so the coral definitely needed, or was able to withstand, very high light.

Brian
just about two minths. I agree that different sites need differetn light needs. I understood at first mine needed strong light, which almost brought about its demise and after talking with someone who knew abou them and suggested low light levels, that's when it made its comeback. Green porites I believe DO need stronger light.

[venwu225]

I agree with BrianPlankis 100%, TRUE successful keepers of these annelids are essentially none existant.

They must be able to live 2-3 years to prove that they or the incidental conditions in the tank some how make the worms thrive.

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8377265#post8377265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by venwu225
I agree with BrianPlankis 100%, TRUE successful keepers of these annelids are essentially none existant.

They must be able to live 2-3 years to prove that they or the incidental conditions in the tank some how make the worms thrive.
when I lived back in OKC I had a 20long that was packed with FL rock (those were the good days-wish that rock was still available) and full of different colored Christmas tree worms.
One morning while checking on the tank I noticed bunches of the worms were releasing tiny brown BB things that would explode into microscopic BBs and other worms were releasing milky clouds. This went on for an hour or so.
I had those worms for over 3 years till I moved to FL and sold it all off. They were doing great and all I was doing was providing good water quality. I believe they feed off of the miniscule left behind from the frozen/thawed brine/mysis/reef cube foods I fed fish, rics, etc.
Personally I don't think they ae that difficult to care for and really haven't heard from anyone keeping them otherwise.
There have even been a few new pop-ups on the porites it the pic since I have had it.

[BFG]

I had bought a colony of these x'mas tree worm a couple of days ago. I was attracted to the different colour each worm exhibit from yellow to a mixture of white and blue. Just an hour ago, after flooding my 4ft with phyto-feast, I saw there were more worm in the colony but what I notice was there was what looks like a crab pincer coming out of 1 of the worms tube. Is there any co-habitating stuff going on between the worm and the crab? Anyone knows?

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8378126#post8378126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FLricordia
when I lived back in OKC I had a 20long that was packed with FL rock (those were the good days-wish that rock was still available) and full of different colored Christmas tree worms.
One morning while checking on the tank I noticed bunches of the worms were releasing tiny brown BB things that would explode into microscopic BBs and other worms were releasing milky clouds. This went on for an hour or so.
I had those worms for over 3 years till I moved to FL and sold it all off. They were doing great and all I was doing was providing good water quality. I believe they feed off of the miniscule left behind from the frozen/thawed brine/mysis/reef cube foods I fed fish, rics, etc.
Personally I don't think they ae that difficult to care for and really haven't heard from anyone keeping them otherwise.
There have even been a few new pop-ups on the porites it the pic since I have had it.

Awesome report! I have been hoping to find breeding reports of these worms in captivity. In general a worm will not have enough energy to breed if they are not receiving enough food, so great to hear this.

A couple of questions for you:

1. Did you thaw your cube foods first and then drain off the water before feeding the tank or did you throw it all in the tank?

2. Did you run a skimmer on this tank? If you did, was it an oversized or very effective skimmer (like a euro-reef) or a skimmer that barely did anything (seaclone)?

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8379448#post8379448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bfg
I had bought a colony of these x'mas tree worm a couple of days ago. I was attracted to the different colour each worm exhibit from yellow to a mixture of white and blue. Just an hour ago, after flooding my 4ft with phyto-feast, I saw there were more worm in the colony but what I notice was there was what looks like a crab pincer coming out of 1 of the worms tube. Is there any co-habitating stuff going on between the worm and the crab? Anyone knows?

You could have what is called a Paguritta hermit crab. They will live in empty worm tubes. They are actually pretty rare to get and unlike most hermit crabs they are not very destructive, mostly filter feeding out of the water.

They will not cohabitate in the tube, they only move in once the worm is dead.

Brian

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8379454#post8379454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianPlankis
Awesome report! I have been hoping to find breeding reports of these worms in captivity. In general a worm will not have enough energy to breed if they are not receiving enough food, so great to hear this.

A couple of questions for you:

1. Did you thaw your cube foods first and then drain off the water before feeding the tank or did you throw it all in the tank?

2. Did you run a skimmer on this tank? If you did, was it an oversized or very effective skimmer (like a euro-reef) or a skimmer that barely did anything (seaclone)?

Brian
Yes, I always thaw in a bit of tank water and dump all in so filter feeders can benifit. I do also target feed though when I have time. Yes, I ran a protien skimmer but I don't remember which (I do recall it using airpump and wooded air blocks-that was the craze then) but I always shut off filteration except PH when feeding for at least a few hours.
It was incredible sight. At first I thought something was wrong when I saw the tiny balls being ejected and blowing up into even tinier balls, but then when I saw the milky white coming from other worms I knew what was happening. I recall the rock must have had around 70-100 worms-different colors. It wasn't the porites type, but worms actually in the FL LR. It was amazing. I wish I would have had a video recorder, but it always goes that way. LOL

[BFG]

Thanks Brian, I was worried about crabs in my tank.